'Inventory of productions for Defender'?
Discussion
Got my evidentiary hearing coming up on the 1st of April.Unexpectedly received a rather plain looking letter this morning headed 'Inventory of productions for defender'No mention of who it's from or who i have to send it to?Or even if i really have to send it?Its for a case against a guy who painted my car.It asks for 1)Diary of events2)Before and after pictures of work(might struggle for before ones)3)Advert(thi smust mean ad i placed looking for someone to do the job and what i wanted done)and finally 4)Receipt.Any advice appreciated.Thanks.
Provide to the other side legible copies of every document and e document that you have that is relevant to the case whether or not it helps your case, and especially if it does not. If you do not have something, say so. You can and should call for all relevant docs from the other side. Try to agree a bundle of documents for use at the hearing.
Also prepare a truthful statement of your evidence, telling the story calmly and honestly, in plain language.
Presumably the issue is whether the car was painted well or badly, so documents are unlikely to be decisive.
Also prepare a truthful statement of your evidence, telling the story calmly and honestly, in plain language.
Presumably the issue is whether the car was painted well or badly, so documents are unlikely to be decisive.
rumpelstiltskin said:
Got my evidentiary hearing coming up on the 1st of April.Unexpectedly received a rather plain looking letter this morning headed 'Inventory of productions for defender'No mention of who it's from or who i have to send it to?Or even if i really have to send it?
Its for a case against a guy who painted my car.It asks for 1)Diary of events2)Before and after pictures of work(might struggle for before ones)3)Advert(thi smust mean ad i placed looking for someone to do the job and what i wanted done)and finally 4)Receipt.Any advice appreciated.Thanks.
Pretty much what BV has said, but don't forget that this is in Scotland which has its own unique way of doing things. Its for a case against a guy who painted my car.It asks for 1)Diary of events2)Before and after pictures of work(might struggle for before ones)3)Advert(thi smust mean ad i placed looking for someone to do the job and what i wanted done)and finally 4)Receipt.Any advice appreciated.Thanks.
You need to follow the system correctly. I assume this will be heard in a Sheriff Court.
http://www.lemac.co.uk/resources/guides/Civil_Proc...
Lodging inventory of productions
A production is a document or article that is used as part or an admission of the evidence by which the party seeks to prove/defend the case. It may be anything from a scrap of paper to a probative document.
I wouldn't recommend not returning it. It is part of the process folder with numbered sections made up by the Sheriff Clerk. The Pursuer's productions go in Section 5, the Defeneder's in Section 6. It would be difficult to proceed unless the documents which are to be relied on are known. It should be returned to the Court in which the case is to be heard.
England and Wales adopted plain language in civil procedure some time ago, but Scotland persists in using archaic and often opaque legal Scots. When I deal professionally with Scots Advocates (barristers), they still write as if in the eighteenth century, and they almost never express an opinion, but take refuge in obfuscation, much like European lawyers tend to do.
I once went to Edinburgh with David Eady QC (now Mr Justice Eady) to attend a consultation on a cross border libel case with the then Dean of Faculty. It was not so much a consultation as an audience. Going to see the Pope would have been less formal. David, a wry and witty man, laughed all the way back to London after the ludicrous pomp and circumstance (and inconclusivity)of the meeting.
The Dublin Bar are even worse in terms of obfuscation and delay, but at least they are funny and not pompous.
I once went to Edinburgh with David Eady QC (now Mr Justice Eady) to attend a consultation on a cross border libel case with the then Dean of Faculty. It was not so much a consultation as an audience. Going to see the Pope would have been less formal. David, a wry and witty man, laughed all the way back to London after the ludicrous pomp and circumstance (and inconclusivity)of the meeting.
The Dublin Bar are even worse in terms of obfuscation and delay, but at least they are funny and not pompous.
There are a couple of things i find confusing about this being a complete layman to the workings of the law.First of all the way this seems to be playing out is like i was about to play a game of poker,and before i play a card i tell my opponent exactly what hands i'm going to play?If you understand what i mean?I really thought boths side just scuttled off seperately,sorted out their defence/accusations and meet on the court date!So if i send the pics i have of the paintwork/paperwork etc i'm basically going to turn up at court with nothing!Seems odd to me.What if they get lost in the post??
There are also a couple of products i gave him to use on the car which were crucial to make the job good,he didn't use these and i now have them back in my possesion,what do i do with these,they are tins of paint??But they are crucial to prove he wasn't interested in doing the job he said he would do in the first place.
There are also a couple of products i gave him to use on the car which were crucial to make the job good,he didn't use these and i now have them back in my possesion,what do i do with these,they are tins of paint??But they are crucial to prove he wasn't interested in doing the job he said he would do in the first place.
Edited by rumpelstiltskin on Thursday 20th March 10:51
Generally speaking, the purpose of the court is to get to the truth of matters and then apply the law to those facts.
Court time is expensive and in short supply, so the idea is to narrow your disagreement down as narrowly as you can get, so you're asking the court to look at the issues that are important, rather than spending too much time on "he said, she said".
The more you can cooperate with your opposition beforehand, the more effectively (cheaply) you can use the court's time to determine the outcome over the (usually very few) points that are actually in disagreement.
Ambushing your opponent is not really cricket and is probably best left to TV shows.
If you have physical items I would picture them and include them in any disclosure, then bring them to the hearing.
Court time is expensive and in short supply, so the idea is to narrow your disagreement down as narrowly as you can get, so you're asking the court to look at the issues that are important, rather than spending too much time on "he said, she said".
The more you can cooperate with your opposition beforehand, the more effectively (cheaply) you can use the court's time to determine the outcome over the (usually very few) points that are actually in disagreement.
Ambushing your opponent is not really cricket and is probably best left to TV shows.
If you have physical items I would picture them and include them in any disclosure, then bring them to the hearing.
Civil litigation requires cards on the table, Ambushes are not allowed, except in TV dramas. State your case, provide your evidence in advance. It's not a game. If your case has merit, you should win 8 time out of 10. If your case has no merit, or you get a nutter Judge, you will lose.
PS: send copies, not originals.
PPS: A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client. You sound like you are out of your depth. Seek expert help. Expert in this context can mean a local lawyer, even if you only seek a bit of advice and not representation. That may mean that you incur a cost, but in life very little is free.
PS: send copies, not originals.
PPS: A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client. You sound like you are out of your depth. Seek expert help. Expert in this context can mean a local lawyer, even if you only seek a bit of advice and not representation. That may mean that you incur a cost, but in life very little is free.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 20th March 10:56
I am assuming that you are not the defenders in this case, in Scotland if you are lodging documents into court you need to send an intimation copy to the other side at the same time you lodge them into court.
In the Sheriff Court (I assume this is where you are) you only have to send the covering sheet listing what documents you are lodging.
As a party to the action you can borrow out the productions to copy them. I would phone the court and ask if they have the defenders productions and then go down to get a copy of them.
Edited to add, there are strict rules regarding when you can lodge documents and if the other side is too late you could argue that they shouldn't be let in, this is technical point but could be worth arguing, I cannot off the tope of my head remember how long before a Small Claims hearing that inventories should be lodged but you should check the rules.
In the Sheriff Court (I assume this is where you are) you only have to send the covering sheet listing what documents you are lodging.
As a party to the action you can borrow out the productions to copy them. I would phone the court and ask if they have the defenders productions and then go down to get a copy of them.
Edited to add, there are strict rules regarding when you can lodge documents and if the other side is too late you could argue that they shouldn't be let in, this is technical point but could be worth arguing, I cannot off the tope of my head remember how long before a Small Claims hearing that inventories should be lodged but you should check the rules.
Edited by Norse_mann on Thursday 20th March 13:36
What an archaic, cumbersome, costly and daft procedure! (and note also the obscure language: "imtimation copy", "borrow out"). English/Welsh civil procedure is decades if not centuries ahead of Scots civil procedure. It is reprehensible that small claims are subject to such user-unfriendly processes.
Please go and see a local lawyer, you're sounding like a lost sheep and the costs if you lose are likely to be greater than your legal fees, even if you just go and ask for advice but for gods sake don't do anything more without seeking a legal opinion.
also send copies not the originals
also send copies not the originals
Breadvan72 said:
What an archaic, cumbersome, costly and daft procedure! (and note also the obscure language: "imtimation copy", "borrow out"). English/Welsh civil procedure is decades if not centuries ahead of Scots civil procedure. It is reprehensible that small claims are subject to such user-unfriendly processes.
Agreed, the moneyclaim portal down south is a far better system and in Scotland mediation generally doesn't get raised until the case has already called (and wasted time) in court!Even worse all the focus on reform at present is focused on the Court of Session and the goal is to push more cases into fewer sheriff courts. I cannot see this ending well.
Norse_mann said:
I am assuming that you are not the defenders in this case, in Scotland if you are lodging documents into court you need to send an intimation copy to the other side at the same time you lodge them into court.
In the Sheriff Court (I assume this is where you are) you only have to send the covering sheet listing what documents you are lodging.
As a party to the action you can borrow out the productions to copy them. I would phone the court and ask if they have the defenders productions and then go down to get a copy of them.
Edited to add, there are strict rules regarding when you can lodge documents and if the other side is too late you could argue that they shouldn't be let in, this is technical point but could be worth arguing, I cannot off the tope of my head remember how long before a Small Claims hearing that inventories should be lodged but you should check the rules.
In the Sheriff Court (I assume this is where you are) you only have to send the covering sheet listing what documents you are lodging.
As a party to the action you can borrow out the productions to copy them. I would phone the court and ask if they have the defenders productions and then go down to get a copy of them.
Edited to add, there are strict rules regarding when you can lodge documents and if the other side is too late you could argue that they shouldn't be let in, this is technical point but could be worth arguing, I cannot off the tope of my head remember how long before a Small Claims hearing that inventories should be lodged but you should check the rules.
Act of Sederunt (Sheriff Court Ordinary Cause Rules) 1993 Chapter 11.
Borrowing and returning of process
11.3.
(1) Subject to paragraph (3), a process, or any part of a process which may be borrowed, may be borrowed only by a solicitor or by his authorised clerk.
(2) All remedies competent to enforce the return of a borrowed process may proceed on the warrant of the court from the custody of which the process was obtained.
(3) A party litigant
(a) may borrow a process only
- (i) with leave of the sheriff; and
- (ii) subject to such conditions as the sheriff may impose; or
(b) may inspect a process and obtain copies, where practicable, from the sheriff clerk.
(4) The sheriff may, on the motion of any party, ordain any other party who has borrowed a part of process to return it within such time as the sheriff thinks fit.
Failure to return parts of process
11.4.
(1) Where a solicitor or party litigant has borrowed any part of process and fails to return it for any diet or hearing at which it is required, the sheriff may impose on such solicitor or party litigant a fine not exceeding £50, which shall be payable to the sheriff clerk; but an order imposing a fine may, on cause shown, be recalled by the sheriff.
(2) An order made under this rule shall not be subject to appeal.
Act of Sederunt (Sheriff Court Ordinary Cause Rules) 1993 Chapter 29.
Lodging productions
29.11. (1) Where a proof has been allowed, all productions which are intended to be used at the proof shall be lodged in process not later than 14 days before the diet of proof.
(2) A production which is not lodged in accordance with paragraph (1) shall not be used or put in evidence at a proof unless—
(a) by consent of parties; or
(b) with leave of the sheriff on cause shown and on such conditions, if any, as to expenses or otherwise as the sheriff thinks fit.
It's simply a list of the productions (documentary/physical evidence) that the Defender will have lodged with the court. You don't have to do anything unless you want to see them. If you do you have to borrow them.
If you want to lodge productions you have to follow a similar process.
You can't just produce items out of the blue as in so many legal dramas!
It's a fairly simple process (I would say that, I suppose, as I worked in the Sheriff Courts for 20 years!)
If you want to lodge productions you have to follow a similar process.
You can't just produce items out of the blue as in so many legal dramas!
It's a fairly simple process (I would say that, I suppose, as I worked in the Sheriff Courts for 20 years!)
Popped down to see a lawyer this afternoon.When i showed her the letter about the productions she agreed with me it didn't look very official,and definetly hadn't come from a lawyer!She thought that it looked like he(the defendant) had maybe decided to go it alone and dump his lawyer,which would make sense as at the preliminary hearing i have never seen a more flustered,nervous looking lawyer in my life!!,filled me with confidence no end!:-)
So basically she told me to send two copies of my inventory,one to the defendant and one to the sherrif's court.
So basically she told me to send two copies of my inventory,one to the defendant and one to the sherrif's court.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff