"I NEVER get out of the way for Police cars..."
Discussion
gh0st said:
a few more valid points, adding "I would mount the pavement as I am sure the policeman would not do me for driving on the pavement in those circumstances"
Believe me gh0st, you would have my personal guarantee that I would sort it for you properly, and you'd not be getting anything through the post.
Dibble said:
What really irks me is the amount of people every single day who fail to make any effort to get out of the way for emergency service vehicles using their lights and sirens. I can almost gurantee that if I have to switch the stuff on today, it WILL happen at some point.
I'm suprised. I always get out of the way of emergency vehicles, and I'm usually surrounded by vehicles mounting kerbs, climbing trees and suchlike to do likewise. Some of my American friends have commented how much better the Brits are at doing this than the Yanks.
gh0st said:
Dibble - what do you think of this hypothetical scenario -
Roadworks on, for example, a duel carrageway making it into a single carrageway. Speed limit reduced from NSL to 40MPH through the roadworks. Laser vans etc possibly positioned around.
You come up behind a car doing 40 with your lights and sirens going. The car desperately wants to let you past but there is nowhere to pull over and they cannot speed up to let you by as there might be scameras.
The scamera partnership CANNOT be reasoned with so therefore the car will have to hold you up at least until the end of the roadworks.
What would you expect the car to do?
Oh, if I had a police car with lights and sirens on behind me I'd take that as carte blance to drive as fast as necessary to get out of its way as soon as possible. Then ENJOY the battle with anyone who tried to prosecute me for speeding.
That's the thing about speeding, it isn't always wrong, it's a matter of circumstance.
Simon
Mr2Mike said:
I would clog it and then get plod to argue the case for me.are generally sensible, it's the scameraships you have to watch
I'm not anti-police, but there is no way would I trust the plod to get me out of a ticket. The only way I can see you being cleared is if the emergency vehicle was driving up your chuff and managed to get into the picture with your car.
I'd certainly put my foot down in the obviously clear sections, but they would have to wait for me to slow down through the cameras.
Today is the saddest day of my 14-year motoring career. i weep for the future that lies in store for my children.
The lentil-munching, Guardian-reading, Commie-sympathising, won't-someone-think-of-the-children Socialistas have won.
Why?
Because intelligent law-abiding people are, due to continual, totally unwarranted, and illegal persecution by Stasi-emulating ill-informed socialist sycophants, now more focussed on avoiding a £60 ticket and three points than potentially saving the life of someone's loved one.
Brunstrom, you and your kind should be ashamed.
Look what you've done.
Shame on you. A plague on your house.
Sorry to hear the story Dibble. This really does add weight to my belief that it should become a mandatory requirement to get out of the way of vehicles on 'blues and twos' runs.
I saw a typically Hungarian situation the other day. Police car proceeding under blues and twos down a DC (my side). We are all out of the way and the polcar wanted to turn left across the opposing carriageway (at a traffic lights controlled junction). Cars stopped in the opposite outside lane, except for some pillock who swapped into the inner lane and carried on , forcing the polcar to carry out an emergency stop.
Mind you two days later we get the other side of the story. Going to visit my in-laws, get onto a new 4-lane SC (Where is the central reservation???). Traffic slows to a crawl, get past one collision (looks like a red-light jumper was T-boned) and the traffic is still crawling. Get about 1 km in the next 40 minutes, cars coming the other way, before we eventually see blue lights etc. The plod are turning people back as there has been a pedestrian fatality (some 'darwin' was trying to cross a 4 lane highway on foot in the middle of rush hour). The cars coming the other way had been turned back, the whole road was closed. Unfortunately nobody had the
of sending a polcar back to stop people joining the road in the first place 
. A normally 40 minute journey took two hours!
>> Edited by kevinday on Monday 6th December 12:00
I saw a typically Hungarian situation the other day. Police car proceeding under blues and twos down a DC (my side). We are all out of the way and the polcar wanted to turn left across the opposing carriageway (at a traffic lights controlled junction). Cars stopped in the opposite outside lane, except for some pillock who swapped into the inner lane and carried on , forcing the polcar to carry out an emergency stop.
Mind you two days later we get the other side of the story. Going to visit my in-laws, get onto a new 4-lane SC (Where is the central reservation???). Traffic slows to a crawl, get past one collision (looks like a red-light jumper was T-boned) and the traffic is still crawling. Get about 1 km in the next 40 minutes, cars coming the other way, before we eventually see blue lights etc. The plod are turning people back as there has been a pedestrian fatality (some 'darwin' was trying to cross a 4 lane highway on foot in the middle of rush hour). The cars coming the other way had been turned back, the whole road was closed. Unfortunately nobody had the
of sending a polcar back to stop people joining the road in the first place . A normally 40 minute journey took two hours! >> Edited by kevinday on Monday 6th December 12:00
I'll get out of the way when it is safe and reasonable to do so.
I will not get out of their way if
A) I have to do something illegal i.e. go through a red light as the only means of letting it through.
B) Going through a speed camera area faster than the posted limit.
C) Means possible damage to my car.
We have the situation on the M1 homeward bound in the rush hour of Police cars screaming down the between centre and outside lanes and giving drivers very little room to manouvre - sorry but you'll have to wait until I can safely get out your way without being pushed out of the way.
Now an ambulance or Fire engine is something different, although and A & B still apply - their drivers seem to know what the limits are and also seem to have a bit of patience with drivers who tend to panic when confronted with an emergency vehicle.
Piccy
>> Edited by piccy mate on Monday 6th December 12:43
I will not get out of their way if
A) I have to do something illegal i.e. go through a red light as the only means of letting it through.
B) Going through a speed camera area faster than the posted limit.
C) Means possible damage to my car.
We have the situation on the M1 homeward bound in the rush hour of Police cars screaming down the between centre and outside lanes and giving drivers very little room to manouvre - sorry but you'll have to wait until I can safely get out your way without being pushed out of the way.
Now an ambulance or Fire engine is something different, although and A & B still apply - their drivers seem to know what the limits are and also seem to have a bit of patience with drivers who tend to panic when confronted with an emergency vehicle.
Piccy
>> Edited by piccy mate on Monday 6th December 12:43
Dibble said:
So next time you see a Police car with its blue lights going, it probably isn’t because the officer is late for his or her dinner. It could be a member of your family, or a friend, that’s in the ambulance ten seconds behind the Police car. Please try and make way.
You could save someone’s life.
Dibble, I feel for you. Most of us here just cannot comprehend what you've been through but respect you and the majority of the BiB immensely for what you do. I've always got out of the way of the emergency services as quickly as possible for exactly the reasons of your thread.
Unfortunately, Loaf is absolutely right in his condemnation of Brunstrom and his like. I'm sure you (Dibble) would stop any prosecution of a driver speeding to get out of your way safely, but would most drivers expect the same if Brunstrom was driving the police car behind you?
Julian
piccy mate said:
I'll get out of the way when it is safe and reasonable to do so.
I will not get out of their way if
A) I have to do something illegal i.e. go through a red light as the only means of letting it through.
B) Going through a speed camera area faster than the posted limit.
C) Means possible damage to my car.
We have the situation on the M1 homeward bound in the rush hour of Police cars screaming down the between centre and outside lanes and giving drivers very little room to manouvre - sorry but you'll have to wait until I can safely get out your way without being pushed out of the way.
Now an ambulance or Fire engine is something different, although and A & B still apply - their drivers seem to know what the limits are and also seem to have a bit of patience with drivers who tend to panic when confronted with an emergency vehicle.
Piccy
>> Edited by piccy mate on Monday 6th December 12:43
Spot on.
No blue and two call is worth it if you ending up causing another accident on the way.
piccy mate said:
I will not get out of their way if
A) I have to do something illegal i.e. go through a red light as the only means of letting it through.
So if you were the first vehicle in the offside lane, held at a red light, and it was safe to move through the red light and then stop in front of the vehcile in lane one, you'd wait for the lights to go to green, even if an emergency vehicle was right behind you with everything going?
I can't post what I'd really like to say.
>> Edited by Dibble on Monday 6th December 13:10
I agree with Loaf's comments and add that in my experience, from observation and history, the less freedom to think for themselves people are given, the less free-thinking you will get from them when you require it.
If people are being forced / threatened into driving like machines, that's what you will get.
If people are being forced / threatened into driving like machines, that's what you will get.
Dibble said:
I will not get out of their way if
A) I have to do something illegal i.e. go through a red light as the only means of letting it through.
So if you were the first vehicle in the offside lane, held at a red light, and it was safe to move through the red light and then stop in front of the vehcile in lane one, you'd wait for the lights to go to green, even if an emergency vehicle was right behind you with everything going?
I can't post what I'd really like to say.
>> Edited by Dibble on Monday 6th December 13:10
Dibble,
I know precisely what you mean by that; I have started limiting my posts to what I can consider to be important and essential to some sort of contribution that will effect change, and I am totally ignoring certain responses; it's the only way I can deal with them.
There is a declining mentality in this country that fills me with despair, a despair born of the apparent abandonment of spirituality, wisdom and common sense of huge swathes of the population.
I really and truly see no end to it, nothing is being done to change the decline, and the implications of that alone are terrifying.
I know that you are changing your job because you feel you can no longer do it, and again the long term implications of that are also terrifying; who is going to replace people like you and what will the effect of their doubtless robot mentality be?
Listen you asked about police cars..... you guys book us motorists at the drop of a hat - there's no way I'm gonna risk my car, licence or wallet just cos you're in a hurry. A red light is a red light is a red light! If the police vehicle can't make it down between two lines of traffic, then that's it. We are the drivers who have to take the decision as to whether we feel it safe taking a course of action to let you through - you don't have the right to put us into potential danger or an illegal situation.
I'm certainly not going to be pushed into a situation where I end up in the wrong which I would be in your scenario, after you'd gone by I'd then be obstructing any vehicle that had the right of way still or I'd be unable to tell when the light had turned in my favour thus incurring the wrath of the guy behind me and I'd now be in the wrong lane.
Now a gen-u-wine emergency vehicle is something different, even then I'd have to be 100% certain that I was not going to get caught by the aftermath of my actions.
>> Edited by piccy mate on Monday 6th December 14:43
I'm certainly not going to be pushed into a situation where I end up in the wrong which I would be in your scenario, after you'd gone by I'd then be obstructing any vehicle that had the right of way still or I'd be unable to tell when the light had turned in my favour thus incurring the wrath of the guy behind me and I'd now be in the wrong lane.
Now a gen-u-wine emergency vehicle is something different, even then I'd have to be 100% certain that I was not going to get caught by the aftermath of my actions.
Dibble said:
piccy mate said:
I will not get out of their way if
A) I have to do something illegal i.e. go through a red light as the only means of letting it through.
So if you were the first vehicle in the offside lane, held at a red light, and it was safe to move through the red light and then stop in front of the vehcile in lane one, you'd wait for the lights to go to green, even if an emergency vehicle was right behind you with everything going?
I can't post what I'd really like to say.
>> Edited by Dibble on Monday 6th December 13:10
>> Edited by piccy mate on Monday 6th December 14:43
Dibble said:
I will not get out of their way if
A) I have to do something illegal i.e. go through a red light as the only means of letting it through.
So if you were the first vehicle in the offside lane, held at a red light, and it was safe to move through the red light and then stop in front of the vehcile in lane one, you'd wait for the lights to go to green, even if an emergency vehicle was right behind you with everything going?
I can't post what I'd really like to say.
>> Edited by Dibble on Monday 6th December 13:10
AIUI the law requires road users to follow the instructions of a constable in uniform. It could be difficult to argue that a road user willfully disobeyed a legitimate instruction.
Personally, I always make space available for an emergency vehicle in an appropriate place, and yes, that has included creeping through a red light and significantly exceeding the speed limit when one got stuck behind me in a contra-flow. I got a thumbs-up from the passenger as the TrafPol car passed.
Tough.
If the goverment contines to persecute the motorist, and the Police continue to be complict in this, what were you expecting ?
Motorists to line the way for you cheering ? More likey everyone who has been scammed sees this as small way to stick it back to the man for the injustices they have suffered.
The Police think the have a right to expect co-operation from the public, but the public can and will withdraw this co-operation.
If the goverment contines to persecute the motorist, and the Police continue to be complict in this, what were you expecting ?
Motorists to line the way for you cheering ? More likey everyone who has been scammed sees this as small way to stick it back to the man for the injustices they have suffered.
The Police think the have a right to expect co-operation from the public, but the public can and will withdraw this co-operation.
Dibble said:
So if you were the first vehicle in the offside lane, held at a red light, and it was safe to move through the red light and then stop in front of the vehcile in lane one, you'd wait for the lights to go to green, even if an emergency vehicle was right behind you with everything going?
I can't post what I'd really like to say.
>> Edited by Dibble on Monday 6th December 13:10
Can't speak for Piccy Mate, but I'd certainly not hesitate to run a red light in the future (having already done so in the past) if I was blocking an emergency services vehicle...
...provided I was at least fairly certain that there wasn't a red light camera pointed at me. If I KNEW there was one, then I'd definitely have second thoughts about moving anywhere until I got a green light. And the same applies to the "would you break the speed limit for an ESV in a speed-camera area" question. It's all well and good you saying you'd make sure the details of the infringing vehicles were noted down so you could act on their behalf, but you can't guarantee that every ESV driver or front-seat passenger will do the same, nor can you guarantee that every camera partnership will drop a prosecution under these circumstances.
Whilst I don't want to deliberately impede the progress of an ESV, neither do I want to be branded a criminal by some nitwit in a camera partnership office because I knowingly broke the law in order to allow an ESV to make better progress. And whilst trying to balance the needs of the ESV crew and whoever they're headed for, against my desire not to pick up a fine and points, there'll undoubdtedly be some hesitation even if I do decide to take the risk with the camera. Hesitation that simply wouldn't be present if I wasn't having to worry about conforming to the limitations of an automated enforcement system.
So sorry, but in this day and age of nit-picky enforcement from a government that seeks to make the life of the average motorist as unpleasant and expensive as possible, you'll have to excuse us if we don't all feel like getting out of the way as quickly as you'd like us to if we know that, in doing so, we'll be falling foul of a discretionless robot sat on a stick by the side of the road.
You also have to remember that by running a red you're potentially putting yourself into harm's way, exposing yourself to oncoming traffic who won't be expecting the manoeuvre, and we don't have flashing lights and shiney battenburg to make us more visible.
I'd still do it though(and have, like many done so in the past)
>> Edited by DJFish on Monday 6th December 16:28
I'd still do it though(and have, like many done so in the past)
>> Edited by DJFish on Monday 6th December 16:28
Very sad. I think there is a general problem for the Police in that they are losing the support of the general public.
The people who get the rough end of this are those who aren't responsible ; the people like you who do the actual work.
I think this will get worse, and you will find yourself operating alone ; the Police will be generally distrusted and people will not help them.
I've recently had a family run in, some quite appallingly dishonest behaviour. The Inspector in charge knows precisely what has happened, and has done absolutely nothing, despite being "appalled by the actions of his own officers" - his words, not mine. But still their actions stand.
The consequence ; if I see a cop being attacked by a gang, would I help - or witness - or would I just turn my back and walk away and see nothing. Two years ago it was a ridiculous question ; now it is not.
Contempt for the Police is partly down to their apparent contempt for law and order ; read the knife/baton story as one of many.
Whatever the precise merits and demerits of the case, the Police behaving in such a manner is no surprise to most people, and it is difficult to criticise someone who takes the line "well if the Police do what the f**k they want why shouldn't I ?".
I do know most cops aren't like this. But some are.
It's made worse by the apparent disinterest in real crimes, which does have some basis in fact. The numbers are the thing these days, and for the managers if not the BiB getting the numbers good is *all* that matters.
The people who get the rough end of this are those who aren't responsible ; the people like you who do the actual work.
I think this will get worse, and you will find yourself operating alone ; the Police will be generally distrusted and people will not help them.
I've recently had a family run in, some quite appallingly dishonest behaviour. The Inspector in charge knows precisely what has happened, and has done absolutely nothing, despite being "appalled by the actions of his own officers" - his words, not mine. But still their actions stand.
The consequence ; if I see a cop being attacked by a gang, would I help - or witness - or would I just turn my back and walk away and see nothing. Two years ago it was a ridiculous question ; now it is not.
Contempt for the Police is partly down to their apparent contempt for law and order ; read the knife/baton story as one of many.
Whatever the precise merits and demerits of the case, the Police behaving in such a manner is no surprise to most people, and it is difficult to criticise someone who takes the line "well if the Police do what the f**k they want why shouldn't I ?".
I do know most cops aren't like this. But some are.
It's made worse by the apparent disinterest in real crimes, which does have some basis in fact. The numbers are the thing these days, and for the managers if not the BiB getting the numbers good is *all* that matters.
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