"I NEVER get out of the way for Police cars..."
Discussion
No Discretion said:
No Discretion said:
I know all that....and speed is exciting....
Hell....even I get a stiffy when I'm blatting through the streets with the lights and sirens blaring....
However, why does Mr Motorist whine/whinge when he gets caught...
What about....we know the time if we do the crime....
in the words of Gary Gilmore..."Lets do it"
Because it's not a crime ?
Or because it's a "manipulated" crime of the sort becoming so popular amongst the Police farce, where no real crime is committed at all, you are breaking an absurdly low speed limit ?
Riiiight...
So what are we going to do then? Overthrow the governement?
No, we lobby our MPs, we write to the papers, we bitch on websites, we pull the f**king things out of the ground but we never, ever admit these abominations are anything other than a scam and a scam that is killing people with a lie. As admitted by xxplod
we seem to be drifting well away from the point of this thread...
but in any case, there is of course a difference between ABSOLUTE speed (as measured by a speed device) and APPROPRIATE speed as assessed by a driver (any driver, not just the ver ver ver highly trained police ones).
For example, driver goes along road at 30 mph. Speed limit is 30 mph. Is he a danger? Imagine that:
1. road is straight, no houses either side, nobody else about. Answer is "of course not".
2. Road is straight but passes a primary school. Time is 3:00 pm - pavements are crowded with mums and kids, mumpties parked all around, on both sides of the road. Answer now is "bleeding loony" right?
Speed camera says "ok". Any trafpol would say "not".
Or, say driver is driving along at 60 mph on single carriageway NSL. Is he going too fast?
Oh, forgot to mention the 90 degree bend in 50 yards time. Is the speed limit lower for the bend? No. The driver is expected to apply some judgement and assess thre safe speed for the bend. If he tries it at 60mph and crashes, is he going too fast? Yes. Is he speeding? No. What do police put on accident report? "Excessive speed". While that diagnosis, from the police point of view as expert drivers (and I'm not taking that away from trafpol drivers, not at all), is correct, it is then used, from the government point of view, to justify a "speed kills" campaign among the general non-expert populace.
Ifr enough cretins fly off the bend, a speed camera might be put up on the straight bit, before that bend. Does it deter the next dozy cretin from trying to take that bend at 60 mph? No. Cretin thinks if that's the speed limit then that's the speed to drive at. Some cretins might even think that the camera justifies doing 60 mph, so the number entering the bend at 60 mph might go UP instead of DOWN. (Ok that last bit is based on conjecture rather than a survey of eligible cretins, but you never know).
I think the point that people are making is that enforcement is not, and can never be, a binary process based on absolute speeds alone. It cannot be fully automated. Speed cameras have a place but they should not be used to justify the reduction in trafpol enforcement, or in the other two fundamental "e's" of road safety, engineering and education, just because they are (a) cheaper and (b) revenue raisers.
IMHO.
but in any case, there is of course a difference between ABSOLUTE speed (as measured by a speed device) and APPROPRIATE speed as assessed by a driver (any driver, not just the ver ver ver highly trained police ones).
For example, driver goes along road at 30 mph. Speed limit is 30 mph. Is he a danger? Imagine that:
1. road is straight, no houses either side, nobody else about. Answer is "of course not".
2. Road is straight but passes a primary school. Time is 3:00 pm - pavements are crowded with mums and kids, mumpties parked all around, on both sides of the road. Answer now is "bleeding loony" right?
Speed camera says "ok". Any trafpol would say "not".
Or, say driver is driving along at 60 mph on single carriageway NSL. Is he going too fast?
Oh, forgot to mention the 90 degree bend in 50 yards time. Is the speed limit lower for the bend? No. The driver is expected to apply some judgement and assess thre safe speed for the bend. If he tries it at 60mph and crashes, is he going too fast? Yes. Is he speeding? No. What do police put on accident report? "Excessive speed". While that diagnosis, from the police point of view as expert drivers (and I'm not taking that away from trafpol drivers, not at all), is correct, it is then used, from the government point of view, to justify a "speed kills" campaign among the general non-expert populace.
Ifr enough cretins fly off the bend, a speed camera might be put up on the straight bit, before that bend. Does it deter the next dozy cretin from trying to take that bend at 60 mph? No. Cretin thinks if that's the speed limit then that's the speed to drive at. Some cretins might even think that the camera justifies doing 60 mph, so the number entering the bend at 60 mph might go UP instead of DOWN. (Ok that last bit is based on conjecture rather than a survey of eligible cretins, but you never know).
I think the point that people are making is that enforcement is not, and can never be, a binary process based on absolute speeds alone. It cannot be fully automated. Speed cameras have a place but they should not be used to justify the reduction in trafpol enforcement, or in the other two fundamental "e's" of road safety, engineering and education, just because they are (a) cheaper and (b) revenue raisers.
IMHO.
No Discretion said:
No, we lobby our MPs, we write to the papers,
Yeah..that's the right thing to do...
However, I don't see many letters being published....
ND, that's when the whole sick joke really dawned on me. SCPs hardly ever return letters or emails, when they do their replies are bare faced lies or press handouts, facts and figures are witheld, letters to the press never get published, MPs nod politely and say a reply will be forthcoming, it isn't. After a while it feels like you're dealing with Area 51
No Discretion said:
Perhaps a complete review of each limit would be a good idea..
No no no, you miss the point! Reviewing speed limits (probably downwards) is just pandering to the nannyism that prevails and has led to the state we are in, where drivers try, for example, to sue the road authority if they fly off a bend and there wasn't a sign warning them that the damn thing was there, and a slow marking on the road (although it's patently obvious to anybody with one eye and half a brain that you have to slow down for it).
It's not about "absolute" speeds and "absolute" limits - it's about drivers exercising proper judgement as to what risks are present and what speeds are appropriate - even within the posted speed limit. It's about going too fast for the prevailing conditions - 10mph on an icy road might be too fast but a posted speed limit or a camera set to 30 mph isn't going to stop you.
No Discretion said:This government has wasted taxpayers money in many ways no doubt but giving £50m to help in this crisis was not one of them.
Good points tvrgit...
Perhaps a complete review of each limit would be a good idea..
Then again...they would say it costs too much...
However, the government was quick to give £50m to the current disaster in Asia....
[Back to topic]
rodentracing said:
Good points tvrgit...
Perhaps a complete review of each limit would be a good idea..
Then again...they would say it costs too much...
However, the government was quick to give £50m to the current disaster in Asia....
This government has wasted taxpayers money in many ways no doubt but giving £50m to help in this crisis was not one of them.
[Back to topic]
Perhaps the intention is good....But we're only an island...and a small one at that....There are plenty of other rich countries that don't put their hands in their pockets and cough up...
It's about time our country started to look within it's shores when dishing out cash, instead of being a Smashey and Nicey style "Charridy" country...
No Discretion said:
No Discretion said:
I know all that....and speed is exciting....
Hell....even I get a stiffy when I'm blatting through the streets with the lights and sirens blaring....
However, why does Mr Motorist whine/whinge when he gets caught...
What about....we know the time if we do the crime....
in the words of Gary Gilmore..."Lets do it"
Because it's not a crime ?
Or because it's a "manipulated" crime of the sort becoming so popular amongst the Police farce, where no real crime is committed at all, you are breaking an absurdly low speed limit ?
Riiiight...
So what are we going to do then? Overthrow the governement?
Good idea. When do we start? Soon hopefully.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
autismuk said:
No Discretion said:
I know all that....and speed is exciting....
Hell....even I get a stiffy when I'm blatting through the streets with the lights and sirens blaring....
However, why does Mr Motorist whine/whinge when he gets caught...
What about....we know the time if we do the crime....
in the words of Gary Gilmore..."Lets do it"
Because it's not a crime ?
Or because it's a "manipulated" crime of the sort becoming so popular amongst the Police farce, where no real crime is committed at all, you are breaking an absurdly low speed limit ?
Riiiight...
So what are we going to do then? Overthrow the governement?
Good idea. When do we start? Soon hopefully.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Dave,
this is the UK..
We organise village fetes, jumble sales, etc etc...
Gary
No Discretion said:
Good points tvrgit...
Perhaps a complete review of each limit would be a good idea..
Then again...they would say it costs too much...
Thanks all the same Gary, but not only would that be unbearably expensive, it would not really help.
Another driver in a different car may assess the safe speed for a section of road very differently from me, even in identical conditions, e.g. light or dark, dry or wet etc., and we might both be right, for ourselves in terms of driving ability, and our respective cars.
I just don't think there are any quick and easy answers, and our current speed limit philosophy, although profitable for some, is just not getting the right result for us.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
No Discretion said:
No Discretion said:
I know all that....and speed is exciting....
Hell....even I get a stiffy when I'm blatting through the streets with the lights and sirens blaring....
However, why does Mr Motorist whine/whinge when he gets caught...
What about....we know the time if we do the crime....
in the words of Gary Gilmore..."Lets do it"
Because it's not a crime ?
Or because it's a "manipulated" crime of the sort becoming so popular amongst the Police farce, where no real crime is committed at all, you are breaking an absurdly low speed limit ?
Riiiight...
So what are we going to do then? Overthrow the governement?
Good question. I would suggest civil disobedience on a massive scale, rather like the Poll tax and Fuel tax events.
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