Tuesday 22nd May 2001

Quotas

---

[Don]

This is clearly INSANE! If they want to set targets for officers it would be more sensible to set the number of man-days to be spent on speed offence detection - rather than actual offences. What the hell is wrong...does no-one in Government have any COMMON SENSE anymore?

[bosshog]

The more I read the more sick it makes me.

[nmilton]

They'll be asking the armed forces to become self sufficient next !!! Rape and pillage (of our wallets !!) here we come !!! Arrgghhh this has *really* wound me up !! So much for them being public servants !!

[apache]

this is mad, how can we stop them, there isn't even any option to vote for so I aint bothering (I don't know anyone else who is either)

[john robson]

not had chance to find out what sparked this post yet, but I just got to read some of the proposed guidelines for our speed enforcement, if we do end up complying with what is suggested it will cetainly upset a few on this site, not to mention the rest of the motoring public. I will update you if possible.

[Cotty]

Quoteolice chiefs are now admitting that officers are being given targets of how many tickets to issue for motoring offences. So what happens if no one breaks the speed limit on their shift, are they expected to make up speeds and fine innocent motorists just to make their quota. Paul ps where is that police radar jammer site

[lucky]

But this shouldn't be a surprise. They have had quotas for years, it's only now that they are admitting it!

[john robson]

Mmm, We are expected to go out and do a the job of enforcing traffic legislation, if we don,t hand out tickets to offenders when the break the rule then we are not doing our job, we do have a degree of discretion, over step it and expect to get a ticket, I have not been personally told to 'do 10 a day' etc but I have seen officers advised if the are not putting any tickets in. But you certainly don't need to make up figures, it is easy to go out and find plenty of offenders driving way over the speed limit, not wearing seat belts, driving without insurance, with bald tyres etc, so I don,t realistically think quota's are an issue. It just seems like a gripe again.

[nmilton]

Well fair enough, but maybe if there was a bit more of a visible clamp down on crap driving as opposed to just speeding then people might be a bit less wary of stories like this. I'm getting very bored with the fact that we're all getting done for motoring offences but the government and police forces aren't doing anything to improve the level of driving standards in this country. Surely the police force, being in the front line of these offences, could offer a bit of constructive criticism based on actual experience and lobby the government and suggest that speeding isn't the only driving offence in this country (contrary to most politicians beliefs) and that people not being taught how to drive properly is arguably a more dangerous "crime".

[john robson]

There has been a recent new initiative in respect of improving driver standards. Providing it satisfies certain criteria drivers who are blameworthy in RTA's can opt for a Driver Improvement Scheme instead of going to court for due care. We do report quite a lot of people for 'bad driving' type offences it does just not get published the same way in which speeding offences do.

[dan]

While getting drivers who are responsible for RTA's to do further training is a good thing, isn't it a bit of a horse bolted and gate reaction! Surely it would be better to improve driver standards before the accidents happened. The problem is that while we all think we are good drivers at least the people who subscribe here have an interest, the difficulty would be to persuade the general population that they would benefit from additional tuition. Unfortunately I can’t see any government forcing people to go back to driving school, besides where is the profit in that.

[.mark]

Surely some blame must lie with the driving schools and the method of tuition? If the driver of 4 weeks that rearranged the back of my TVR had been properly drilled in stopping distances then perhaps I would be out enjoying some decent motoring during this fine spell instead of sitting here fuming!

[Jason F]

Mark, stopping distances in the learner car are fine, it is the fact that once you have passed you can do what you damn well please.. 3 lanes on a roundabout ? Take the left lane to go all the way round.. Signals are optional. Amber/Red traffic light ? GO through if you think you can accelerate the BMW hard enough... For some reason most people seem to forget that lanes, lights etc are there for a reason, and that some politeness is acceptable behaviour, once they are behind the wheel.

[SMiles]

I do have a couple of gripes (john will be pleased to hear) with the motoring public in general. I am not accusing everyone of this by any means. The police are in an ideal position to tell people about these things without getting heavy and I believe would improve road safety enormously. 1) That old chestnut the middle lane hogger on the M'ways. The reason I feel people should be stopped and re-informed how the lanes are supposed to work is because that act of moving between lanes should increase peoples level of observation and prevent them slipping into that early morning motorway coma. 2) People should be stopped and informed that the orange flashing light on each corner of the car are for other peoples benefit. Even if the driver thinks no-one is there they should still indicate, this is the only clue to people who they may not have seen of what they are going to do. Lets face motor manufacturers have put indicator switches in a very accesible position, it's not like we have to trouble ourseleves too much to switch them on, and in most cars they even turn off on their own - clever. I make point number two as a cyclist who has been hit by a driver not letting me know where he was going. And as a driver who saw a pedestrian hit, again due to non indication. Rant - sorry folks. Miles Edited by SMiles on Thursday 24th May 09:54

[richb]

Smiles, I agree entirely, so... 1) Make it an offense to be undertaken on a motorway? 2) Alter the method used for teaching new drivers. Having had 2 teenages learn in the last 18 months I can assure you they are taught only to indicate when "they" consider it necessary! - What Boll*x !!! So if they can't see the cyclist at the T junction then fine! Oh and 3) (sorry John) even the police drivers in their panda cars don't bother to indicate when they turn left where I live! R...

[john robson]

Personally I would like the law changing so that traffic officers would have the option of requiring a person to take an 'assesment drive' if they are seen driving in an incompetant manner, if they fail it they should then have to be re-tested. this system is used for Police drivers who are involved in a minor prang or if you pass the advanced test but don't use the authority for 12 months ( ie if you don't actually work on a unit that uses fast cars!!!). While I'm on the subject I also think that the Police should have a discretionary power of arrest if you do not carry your licence and insurance with you. So if anyone wants to include that in the letter to the MP feel free. Oh and while I'm on a roll I think the power to seize an uninsured car would be quite a good idea, that way we could get rid of all the old crap on the road that seems to pass hands for a couple of hundred quid, most of this type of car is used by the criminal element(burglars etc) and in addition it is also responsible for a large amount of the fail to stop RTA's. Right finished.

[nmilton]

Wow ! While I may not have agreed with some of the things you've written in the past, I found myself agreeing with pretty much all of that. Isn't it the case in some countries that the tax disc (or equivalent) includes compulsory third party insurance to protect other people from uninsured drivers ? That might eventually help the rest of us with lower insurance premiums if there was such a scheme in place in the UK. You could even have a scheme where the insurance portion of the road fund licence was waived if you provided proof of fully comprehensive insurance.

[johnwilk]

I wholly agree with John Robson on the need to remove uninsured, unsafe vehicles from the road. There are too many uncaring individuals who will play the hit and run game and suffer no effective punishment afterwards. Immediate Confiscation of any uninsured, untaxed vehicle would have a very positive effect on the offenders. May it happen soon.

[richb]

Well there you go John, I agree with you. Certainly I can see no reason for anyone not to carry their driving licence with them, and it would be no more trouble to carry an insurance certificate as well. Better still would be to scrap the Road Fund Licence (especially as the govt. get enough tax from petrol tax) and replace it with an insurance certificate disc issued by the insurer and endorsed with a stamp by the MOT test station where appropriate. This of course would be displayed in the usual manner. So simple even a minister could think of it!

[nmilton]

"So simple even a minister could think of it!" Ah, therein lies the problem !! They're not allowed to think anymore (that's assuming they ever were !!). Good call about the combined insurance / MOT disc. That would mean it would be possible for any car left on the street to be impounded if it didn't have the right documentation on display. Obviously it would need some serious thought to get the security measures correct so people couldn't forge them easily but in these days of "smart" credit cards that shouldn't be too tricky.