Non return of tenancy deposit & failure to protect in DPS
Discussion
JustinP1 said:
I filed at my local county court using form N1 and attaching my Particulars of Claim.
If MCOL is the same as I think it still is, the section where you input your particulars is crazily short, and you lose all your formatting so it looks very amateurish.
Wings - what's the situation if the landlord protects the deposit before the hearing? From my research it seems that this is an absolute defence?
The Localisation Act 2012 amended the Housing Act 2004, the same closing loopholes whereby a landlord upon receipt of legal papers, would either return a tenant's Deposit and/or make a belated attempt to protect a Deposit under the TDS, the same in an attempt to avoid court proceedings. If MCOL is the same as I think it still is, the section where you input your particulars is crazily short, and you lose all your formatting so it looks very amateurish.
Wings - what's the situation if the landlord protects the deposit before the hearing? From my research it seems that this is an absolute defence?
sugerbear said:
Yes, but you should check what judges have awarded. In all the cases I have found it's three times the amount.
Of course they might just award 1x the amount. But why would they? That would be rewarding the landlords by allowing them to not insure the deposit. Which defeats the whole purpose of the scheme.
Landlords that don't act within the law deserve to be punished financially.
I have heard cases where the courts have imposed no penalty against the landlord, just the refund of the tenant's Deposit and legal costs.Of course they might just award 1x the amount. But why would they? That would be rewarding the landlords by allowing them to not insure the deposit. Which defeats the whole purpose of the scheme.
Landlords that don't act within the law deserve to be punished financially.
The past ten years legislation has got very complicated for landlords, with the majority of landlords being ordinary working class people, no legal training etc., attempting just to substitute their pensions.
Wings said:
I have heard cases where the courts have imposed no penalty against the landlord, just the refund of the tenant's Deposit and legal costs.
The past ten years legislation has got very complicated for landlords, with the majority of landlords being ordinary working class people, no legal training etc., attempting just to substitute their pensions.
Being ignorant isn't an excuse however dumb people pretend to be. It's a bit like failing to declare your income on your tax return because tax is very complicated. The past ten years legislation has got very complicated for landlords, with the majority of landlords being ordinary working class people, no legal training etc., attempting just to substitute their pensions.
And the legislation is now very clear. I would be interested to hear of any recent cases where the court imposed just the return of the deposit + costs.
Wings said:
I have heard cases where the courts have imposed no penalty against the landlord, just the refund of the tenant's Deposit and legal costs.
The past ten years legislation has got very complicated for landlords, with the majority of landlords being ordinary working class people, no legal training etc., attempting just to substitute their pensions.
You don't need legal training. Plenty of resources online to explain landlord responsibilities in plain English. If you have the knowledge to buy a house that you have the ability to understand your responsibilities. They aren't that onerous.The past ten years legislation has got very complicated for landlords, with the majority of landlords being ordinary working class people, no legal training etc., attempting just to substitute their pensions.
What the flip has class got to do with it?
Wings said:
JustinP1 said:
I filed at my local county court using form N1 and attaching my Particulars of Claim.
If MCOL is the same as I think it still is, the section where you input your particulars is crazily short, and you lose all your formatting so it looks very amateurish.
Wings - what's the situation if the landlord protects the deposit before the hearing? From my research it seems that this is an absolute defence?
The Localisation Act 2012 amended the Housing Act 2004, the same closing loopholes whereby a landlord upon receipt of legal papers, would either return a tenant's Deposit and/or make a belated attempt to protect a Deposit under the TDS, the same in an attempt to avoid court proceedings. If MCOL is the same as I think it still is, the section where you input your particulars is crazily short, and you lose all your formatting so it looks very amateurish.
Wings - what's the situation if the landlord protects the deposit before the hearing? From my research it seems that this is an absolute defence?
I've re-researched, and it seems that the removal of a single word has closed the loophole...
Thought it may be relevant for the OP in case the landlord does what mine has done, that is put the tenancy deposit into a scheme 9 months after the end of the tenancy and when the final hearing date has come through.
I think they have got some duff advice.
I again folks, thank you all for your help so far. I'm going to go along with Justin and proceed with the N1 route. Please would those who have commented above look over the following 'details of the claim' which I will be writing on the N1 form?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
The defendant has failed to return a tenancy deposit of £300. The defendant has failed to protect the tenancy deposit as required under Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004.
The defendant is my former landlord. I rented one room at the defendant's property (** ***** *****) from **/**/2012 to **/**/2014. I paid a tenancy deposit of £300 as detailed in the shorthold tenancy agreement (see particulars). The deposit and contract signing was handled by the defendant's agent, **** **** Property (address) Throughout the tenancy I paid each rent installment in full and on time. At the end of the tenancy I gave a one month notice period as required and when I moved out, the room was cleaned and left in good condition (see pictures in particulars). As requested by the defendant, I provided him with my forwarding address and bank details by email (see particulars) on **/**/2014.
Since **/**/2014 I have received no correspondence from the defendant. I have not been informed of any decuctions from the deposit. I have tried to contact the defendant by telephone, email and letter (see particulars) to resolve this issue, to no avail.
I seek the return of my deposit (£300) and an order that the landlord pays me an amount not less than the amount of the deposit and not more than three times the amount of the deposit under the Housing Act 2004, S214 sub paragraph (3), (3a), (4). I have contacted all 3 authorised deposit protection schemes. All 3 have confirmed that they do not hold the deposit. See particulars.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
The defendant has failed to return a tenancy deposit of £300. The defendant has failed to protect the tenancy deposit as required under Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004.
The defendant is my former landlord. I rented one room at the defendant's property (** ***** *****) from **/**/2012 to **/**/2014. I paid a tenancy deposit of £300 as detailed in the shorthold tenancy agreement (see particulars). The deposit and contract signing was handled by the defendant's agent, **** **** Property (address) Throughout the tenancy I paid each rent installment in full and on time. At the end of the tenancy I gave a one month notice period as required and when I moved out, the room was cleaned and left in good condition (see pictures in particulars). As requested by the defendant, I provided him with my forwarding address and bank details by email (see particulars) on **/**/2014.
Since **/**/2014 I have received no correspondence from the defendant. I have not been informed of any decuctions from the deposit. I have tried to contact the defendant by telephone, email and letter (see particulars) to resolve this issue, to no avail.
I seek the return of my deposit (£300) and an order that the landlord pays me an amount not less than the amount of the deposit and not more than three times the amount of the deposit under the Housing Act 2004, S214 sub paragraph (3), (3a), (4). I have contacted all 3 authorised deposit protection schemes. All 3 have confirmed that they do not hold the deposit. See particulars.
Vaud said:
You don't need legal training. Plenty of resources online to explain landlord responsibilities in plain English. If you have the knowledge to buy a house that you have the ability to understand your responsibilities. They aren't that onerous.
What the flip has class got to do with it?
Not all landlords have purchased a property in order to rent the same, many landlords having inherited a property from a deceased relative, or through forming a relationship, where the other partner’s home/property becomes vacant.What the flip has class got to do with it?
There is a difference between a bus driver, factory worker renting out a property inherited from their deceased parent/s, to that of a lawyer, accountant or surveyor buying 3, 4 or 5 properties, for the sole purpose of renting those properties out for financial gain. For me the former is a consumer, with the latter operating a commercial business.
From my past research, I have found the courts and various government agencies, both understanding and sympathetic to landlords, who simply through error fail to adhere to legislation covering the protection of a tenant’s Deposit.
Slowped said:
I again folks, thank you all for your help so far. I'm going to go along with Justin and proceed with the N1 route. Please would those who have commented above look over the following 'details of the claim' which I will be writing on the N1 form?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
The defendant has failed to return a tenancy deposit of £300. The defendant has failed to protect the tenancy deposit as required under Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004.
The defendant is my former landlord. I rented one room at the defendant's property (** ***** *****) from **/**/2012 to **/**/2014. I paid a tenancy deposit of £300 as detailed in the shorthold tenancy agreement (see particulars). The deposit and contract signing was handled by the defendant's agent, **** **** Property (address) Throughout the tenancy I paid each rent installment in full and on time. At the end of the tenancy I gave a one month notice period as required and when I moved out, the room was cleaned and left in good condition (see pictures in particulars). As requested by the defendant, I provided him with my forwarding address and bank details by email (see particulars) on **/**/2014.
Since **/**/2014 I have received no correspondence from the defendant. I have not been informed of any decuctions from the deposit. I have tried to contact the defendant by telephone, email and letter (see particulars) to resolve this issue, to no avail.
I seek the return of my deposit (£300) and an order that the landlord pays me an amount not less than the amount of the deposit and not more than three times the amount of the deposit under the Housing Act 2004, S214 sub paragraph (3), (3a), (4). I have contacted all 3 authorised deposit protection schemes. All 3 have confirmed that they do not hold the deposit. See particulars.
If you have clearly given your former landlord the opportunity of returning your Deposit, then you should proceed with legal proceedings._ _ _ _ _ _ _
The defendant has failed to return a tenancy deposit of £300. The defendant has failed to protect the tenancy deposit as required under Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004.
The defendant is my former landlord. I rented one room at the defendant's property (** ***** *****) from **/**/2012 to **/**/2014. I paid a tenancy deposit of £300 as detailed in the shorthold tenancy agreement (see particulars). The deposit and contract signing was handled by the defendant's agent, **** **** Property (address) Throughout the tenancy I paid each rent installment in full and on time. At the end of the tenancy I gave a one month notice period as required and when I moved out, the room was cleaned and left in good condition (see pictures in particulars). As requested by the defendant, I provided him with my forwarding address and bank details by email (see particulars) on **/**/2014.
Since **/**/2014 I have received no correspondence from the defendant. I have not been informed of any decuctions from the deposit. I have tried to contact the defendant by telephone, email and letter (see particulars) to resolve this issue, to no avail.
I seek the return of my deposit (£300) and an order that the landlord pays me an amount not less than the amount of the deposit and not more than three times the amount of the deposit under the Housing Act 2004, S214 sub paragraph (3), (3a), (4). I have contacted all 3 authorised deposit protection schemes. All 3 have confirmed that they do not hold the deposit. See particulars.
For completeness you need both to consider the following, and then to amend your intended statement.
The original Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (hereafter AST), for what period was the same for. If for example the AST was for a 12 month period, the same (for example) starting on the 1st January 2012, then that AST would have ended on the 31st December 2013. If at the end of that AST, your then landlord issued you with no new AST, then the original AST would roll over and become a MONTHLY Statutory Periodic Tenancy (hereafter SPT). With each Monthly SPT starting on the 1st day of any month, and ending on the last day of that month, the same offering you/the tenant the same legal rights as the AST did.
As with an AST, for the tenant to end a SPT, the tenant has to offer the landlord One months Notice, and in the above example, the tenant’s Notice would be from the 1st day of the month to the last day of that same month.
In the Suoerstrike Ltd v Rodrigues (2013) landmark High Court Judgment, the same dealt with both the protection of the tenant/s Deposit under the AST, and the re-protection of that Deposit once the tenancy had rolled over into being a periodic tenancy.
Slowped said:
I again folks, thank you all for your help so far. I'm going to go along with Justin and proceed with the N1 route. Please would those who have commented above look over the following 'details of the claim' which I will be writing on the N1 form?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
The defendant has failed to return a tenancy deposit of £300. The defendant has failed to protect the tenancy deposit as required under Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004.
The defendant is my former landlord. I rented one room at the defendant's property (** ***** *****) from **/**/2012 to **/**/2014. I paid a tenancy deposit of £300 as detailed in the shorthold tenancy agreement (see particulars). The deposit and contract signing was handled by the defendant's agent, **** **** Property (address) Throughout the tenancy I paid each rent installment in full and on time. At the end of the tenancy I gave a one month notice period as required and when I moved out, the room was cleaned and left in good condition (see pictures in particulars). As requested by the defendant, I provided him with my forwarding address and bank details by email (see particulars) on **/**/2014.
Since **/**/2014 I have received no correspondence from the defendant. I have not been informed of any decuctions from the deposit. I have tried to contact the defendant by telephone, email and letter (see particulars) to resolve this issue, to no avail.
I seek the return of my deposit (£300) and an order that the landlord pays me an amount not less than the amount of the deposit and not more than three times the amount of the deposit under the Housing Act 2004, S214 sub paragraph (3), (3a), (4). I have contacted all 3 authorised deposit protection schemes. All 3 have confirmed that they do not hold the deposit. See particulars.
Please note here that IANAL, but have studied contract law at degree level, and done a reasonable bit of litigation before and at court._ _ _ _ _ _ _
The defendant has failed to return a tenancy deposit of £300. The defendant has failed to protect the tenancy deposit as required under Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004.
The defendant is my former landlord. I rented one room at the defendant's property (** ***** *****) from **/**/2012 to **/**/2014. I paid a tenancy deposit of £300 as detailed in the shorthold tenancy agreement (see particulars). The deposit and contract signing was handled by the defendant's agent, **** **** Property (address) Throughout the tenancy I paid each rent installment in full and on time. At the end of the tenancy I gave a one month notice period as required and when I moved out, the room was cleaned and left in good condition (see pictures in particulars). As requested by the defendant, I provided him with my forwarding address and bank details by email (see particulars) on **/**/2014.
Since **/**/2014 I have received no correspondence from the defendant. I have not been informed of any decuctions from the deposit. I have tried to contact the defendant by telephone, email and letter (see particulars) to resolve this issue, to no avail.
I seek the return of my deposit (£300) and an order that the landlord pays me an amount not less than the amount of the deposit and not more than three times the amount of the deposit under the Housing Act 2004, S214 sub paragraph (3), (3a), (4). I have contacted all 3 authorised deposit protection schemes. All 3 have confirmed that they do not hold the deposit. See particulars.
My reason for saying that is as I mentioned, the specific advice I have been given is that Part 8 procedure needs to be followed, and that's never been a route I've had to go down.
However, for a Part 8 claim you do need to provide the evidence you are relying on - this being the tenancy agreement.
The only other thing I would mention is that it is expected that your particulars are in numbered paragraphs, so the other party and the court can comment on those particular numbered points. Start off with the background, however obvious, then the facts, then the law how they relate to the facts, then what you are asking the court to do. You should also write in the third person.
So, for example, like this:
1) The Claimant was a tenant of the Property X from A until B. The Defendant was the Landlord of this Property.
2) The Tenancy Agreement was formed by way of a written contract signed by the Claimant... yada yada, naming the Defendant as Landlord.
zcacogp said:
Hang on, the OP said that he moved out of a house share. Who was the AST between? Was there one AST between the landlord and several people, all counted as 'the tenant', or did each person have a separate AST?
If the former, has the tenancy actually come to an end?
Oli.
Agree, as BV often posts, there can be no substitute for the OP taking all the documents, tenancy agreement, receipt for deposit etc. etc. along to a local solicitor and obtaining correct legal advice.If the former, has the tenancy actually come to an end?
Oli.
An update on this for anyone who is interested.
I wrote out a part 8 claim in the proper format- thank you to Justin for bringing this requirement to my attention. However, upon fully investigating the costs of a P8, I decided to go the N1 small claim route instead, as I do not expect to receive any payment from the landlord, and didn't fancy failing to recover my fees. With regard to amount, I claimed for £300 plus the £35 court fee. The claim was submitted in late October and served in early November, and the defendant has not acknowledged service, so I have requested judgement.
Now I suppose that the court will make an order for the defendant to pay, the defendant will not pay and a CCJ will eventually be issued.
I wrote out a part 8 claim in the proper format- thank you to Justin for bringing this requirement to my attention. However, upon fully investigating the costs of a P8, I decided to go the N1 small claim route instead, as I do not expect to receive any payment from the landlord, and didn't fancy failing to recover my fees. With regard to amount, I claimed for £300 plus the £35 court fee. The claim was submitted in late October and served in early November, and the defendant has not acknowledged service, so I have requested judgement.
Now I suppose that the court will make an order for the defendant to pay, the defendant will not pay and a CCJ will eventually be issued.
Sounds like you did the right thing, well done.
Oli.
SlowMoped said:
Now I suppose that the court will make an order for the defendant to pay, the defendant will not pay and a CCJ will eventually be issued.
That, unfortunately, is the risk with any court action; getting judgement if you are in the right is easy, getting the other party to pay is a bit harder. If the defendant has a regular address and some income then you are in a better position, but push ahead and get that judgement first. Oli.
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