Why it IS worth complaining!
Discussion
Howdy.
We have all seen the adverts, "think" with the nissan and its dodgy brakes, "speed kills" etc etc etc and we have all had our blood pressure go stratospheric at some point due to these kinds of false ads.
So what do we do? Usually we go and kick the dog/cat/next door neighbour to get it off our chests.
What we should have done of course is to COMPLAIN to authorities in charge of such broadcasting.
I can hear now the cries of " But they dont listen to us" or "what will it achieve?".
Plenty i can tell you that.
The doubtful amongst us need to be reminded just how effective our "voice" can actually be.
Every time we complain, it costs the scammers thousands, not only in terms of ££££ but time.
Enjoy the following link from Hampshire and Isle of Wights scam-crew and see how they operate, even Safespeed gets a mention...theyre not happy bunnies at all.
www.safetycamera.org.uk/pd/Minutes26.02.04website.pdf
We have all seen the adverts, "think" with the nissan and its dodgy brakes, "speed kills" etc etc etc and we have all had our blood pressure go stratospheric at some point due to these kinds of false ads.
So what do we do? Usually we go and kick the dog/cat/next door neighbour to get it off our chests.
What we should have done of course is to COMPLAIN to authorities in charge of such broadcasting.
I can hear now the cries of " But they dont listen to us" or "what will it achieve?".
Plenty i can tell you that.
The doubtful amongst us need to be reminded just how effective our "voice" can actually be.
Every time we complain, it costs the scammers thousands, not only in terms of ££££ but time.
Enjoy the following link from Hampshire and Isle of Wights scam-crew and see how they operate, even Safespeed gets a mention...theyre not happy bunnies at all.
www.safetycamera.org.uk/pd/Minutes26.02.04website.pdf
sadako said:
Might be worth complaning to the internet naming provider for a profit making organisation using a .org.uk address. They might have to change their address.
Seems that most of the scamerati are using the ".org" address. Ive also noticed that nearly ALL of em have reserved .com,.co.uk, and .net addresses for themselves.
It is only worth complaining about adverts which are clearly incorrect in some way. The advert in question had the usual "one third" claim and I suspect the complainant wanted to see how the ASA would take things. The ASA *HAS* upheld the claims in at least on advert in the past but it seems they were swayed this time:
www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Adjudication+Details.htm?adjudication_id=37181
I downloaded the minutes but hadn't had a chance to read through them yet. I had a quick read and it's interesting to see how they waste truckloads of time on keeping tabs on how the anti camera people are doing.
Here's an interesting quote from the 23/9/03 minutes:
Hmm...
seems as if they don't have any particular objection to them being released, just that they wouldn't like them to be.
edit: Here's the adjudication they referred to. As you can see the ASA swallowed all the bull that is usually brought up:
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Thursday 30th December 18:00
www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Adjudication+Details.htm?adjudication_id=37181
I downloaded the minutes but hadn't had a chance to read through them yet. I had a quick read and it's interesting to see how they waste truckloads of time on keeping tabs on how the anti camera people are doing.
Here's an interesting quote from the 23/9/03 minutes:
Minutes said:
There was a discussion over whether figures should be released regarding the number of tickets that have been issued. Performance of the Partnership should be measured in the number of casualties saved and not
how many tickets have been issued. It was acknowledged that if this Partnership released figures to this effect, it would impact on other partnerships. It was suggested by CG that this sort of information should
come from the DfT only; however MB pointed out that Partnerships such as Avon & Somerset, when faced with a similar dilemma, were left out on a limb by the DfT who released a ‘watered down’ version of tickets issued
despite Avon & Somerset specifically saying to the press that they were not authorised to release any figures. The Freedom of Information Act was mentioned; more specifically, what exactly we do need to release to the public. The need to be proactive and not reactive was stressed, to this end MS, JH, & VK should work towards a creative response to criticism over
tickets issued.
Hmm...
seems as if they don't have any particular objection to them being released, just that they wouldn't like them to be. edit: Here's the adjudication they referred to. As you can see the ASA swallowed all the bull that is usually brought up:
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Thursday 30th December 18:00
I notice that a lot of the scamera partnerships now have various sets of slightly censored meeting minutes on their websites. Did they always do this, or is it new since the Freedom of Information act is around the corner?
Also interesting to note from the Thames Valley website, they've introduced a "closed session" in the last couple of meetings - presumably where they can discuss things they don't want to tell us about...
I was pondering the impending FOIA today...
Would there be any benefit in organising a coordinated "submit a request to a scamera partnership" campaign, if only to drown them in red tape? Given the various uproar over leaked accounts we've had in the past (the MCN expose on the Essex figures for example), would there be mileage in repeatedly bothering these people for every bit of information going? Minutes, accounts, traffic surveys, supporting documentation for the spun to death KSI figures they publish, who's who in the partnership, the works? It may come back covered in black marker, but if nothing else it would wind them right up.
Who knows, maybe someone will unearth a "smoking gun" somewhere amongst all the paperwork? Maybe we should try and make life for these people as awkward as they make it for us?
Would there be any benefit in organising a coordinated "submit a request to a scamera partnership" campaign, if only to drown them in red tape? Given the various uproar over leaked accounts we've had in the past (the MCN expose on the Essex figures for example), would there be mileage in repeatedly bothering these people for every bit of information going? Minutes, accounts, traffic surveys, supporting documentation for the spun to death KSI figures they publish, who's who in the partnership, the works? It may come back covered in black marker, but if nothing else it would wind them right up.
Who knows, maybe someone will unearth a "smoking gun" somewhere amongst all the paperwork? Maybe we should try and make life for these people as awkward as they make it for us?
busa_rush said:
I was wondering if anybody had a template letter for the SCP's, council and the local plod ?
yeah here is mine -
"Dear Sirs,
Stop wasting our f
king money and fking time on this anally retentive crap propaganda. You bunch of busybody mithering boardroom lurking frog licking child beating morons. Kind Regards,
Gh0st"
[quote=gh0st 
]
yeah here is mine -
"Dear Sirs,
Stop wasting our fking money and fking time on this anally retentive crap propaganda. You bunch of busybody mithering boardroom lurking frog licking child beating morons.
Kind Regards,
Gh0st"[/quote]
Excellent!!
] busa_rush said:
I was wondering if anybody had a template letter for the SCP's, council and the local plod ?
yeah here is mine -
"Dear Sirs,
Stop wasting our f
king money and fking time on this anally retentive crap propaganda. You bunch of busybody mithering boardroom lurking frog licking child beating morons. Kind Regards,
Gh0st"[/quote]
Excellent!!Excellent draft letter there Ghost, but i think it may be a little on the "soft" side...
Regarding the "smoking gun" evidence...its definitely in one of their systems albeit heavily camoflaged i believe.
However, as with a lot of these things, the truth will always out eventually, i tend to think it just needs a little help from like minded folks on here..
Keep digging away, itll be exposed sooner rather than later i reckon.
Regarding the red tape option, excellent plan for even a small number of potential complainants to attempt.
The results in terms of time and cost to those "bastards" will be worth even the smallest effort.
Regarding the "smoking gun" evidence...its definitely in one of their systems albeit heavily camoflaged i believe.
However, as with a lot of these things, the truth will always out eventually, i tend to think it just needs a little help from like minded folks on here..
Keep digging away, itll be exposed sooner rather than later i reckon.
Regarding the red tape option, excellent plan for even a small number of potential complainants to attempt.
The results in terms of time and cost to those "bastards" will be worth even the smallest effort.
Interesting, It has the aura of "A den of Thieves" about it. Sticky little fingers at work here I think.
Two things! As I've said before:
(1) Don't look to any Political party to stop this madness. Not making any political statement here - Just stating facts. A small amount of noise to get your vote is all you'll achieve IMHO.
(2) The Monster of these so called "partnerships" is clearly growing as I have said before. They are going National with tenticles everywhere (somewhat like the Mafia), They attack the Press when they don't toe the line with "their" message, (somewhat like Hitler). control the press and you control the people,(rule 1) ask Murdoch
The monster is becoming self sustaining and very soon Government itself will not be capable of removing it, even if it wanted to.
Finally for you BiB's out there, especially those of you who agree with camera use. If! just If, they get their way and everyone drives at 28 mph everwhere. They'll look for more "work" for themselves to do, i.e. Police work, and! They'll get it, they are cheaper than you, ain't the bottom line a Bitch! It's not in any of our interests.
If Herr Hitler himself had've walked in and said he was going to control the populace in this way, freedom of movement curtailed, ID cards, (for the general public, not criminals!) we would not have been surprised. What the F**K was WW2 about anyway. Ich bin Englander, Get me out of here!
I'm OK now, I'll have a lie down.
Two things! As I've said before:
(1) Don't look to any Political party to stop this madness. Not making any political statement here - Just stating facts. A small amount of noise to get your vote is all you'll achieve IMHO.
(2) The Monster of these so called "partnerships" is clearly growing as I have said before. They are going National with tenticles everywhere (somewhat like the Mafia), They attack the Press when they don't toe the line with "their" message, (somewhat like Hitler). control the press and you control the people,(rule 1) ask Murdoch
The monster is becoming self sustaining and very soon Government itself will not be capable of removing it, even if it wanted to.
Finally for you BiB's out there, especially those of you who agree with camera use. If! just If, they get their way and everyone drives at 28 mph everwhere. They'll look for more "work" for themselves to do, i.e. Police work, and! They'll get it, they are cheaper than you, ain't the bottom line a Bitch! It's not in any of our interests.
If Herr Hitler himself had've walked in and said he was going to control the populace in this way, freedom of movement curtailed, ID cards, (for the general public, not criminals!) we would not have been surprised. What the F**K was WW2 about anyway. Ich bin Englander, Get me out of here!
I'm OK now, I'll have a lie down.
hornet said:
I was pondering the impending FOIA today...
Would there be any benefit in organising a coordinated "submit a request to a scamera partnership" campaign, if only to drown them in red tape?
No, there is specific exemptions in the legislation for them to ignore repeated requests which are from, or appear to be from a campaign. See www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk for guidelines. Requests from separate individuals for different information can be combined into one for costing purposes if they are from or appear to be from one campaign.
hornet said:
Who knows, maybe someone will unearth a "smoking gun" somewhere amongst all the paperwork? Maybe we should try and make life for these people as awkward as they make it for us?
Yes, this is likely and why the "red tape" option is not a good idea even if it were possible.
If you read through the Hampshire minutes from their website you see an undercurrent of, erm, how can I put this, "circle jerk" mentality of spinning everything to the positive and working to ensure that they tow the "party line" and avoid embarassing other partnerships.
eg:
Minutes said:
A matter interest is the Safer Speeds Initiative legal challenge which may or may not result in a revision of the conspicuity guidelines. The outcome of the case will be known in February or March. It was noted that the Partnership would be obliged to comply with whatever guidelines are laid down at that stage. In the meantime the Partnership would have to be able to put the best face on the decision and would, in the meantime, need to be able to defend either argument.
...
Minutes said:
Feedback from Project Managers Meeting held in London on 9 January 2003, JH confirmed that in anticipation of changes in Conspicuity Policy, credible arguments both for and against have been developed in the event of any negative media criticism directed at the partnership.
Gareth
BliarOut said:
Graffiti their roadside propoganda 
£5 on an aerosol can and you have your own campaign that is seen by every travelling motorist. Cheap advertising
Rob,
If you saw someone "campaigning" with an aerosol, it would be your duty to report it, as with anyone else who saw it.
Phil
BliarOut said:
Graffiti their roadside propoganda
£5 on an aerosol can and you have your own campaign that is seen by every travelling motorist. Cheap advertising
Liberally applied to the lens of your local scamera?
Say it all without saying a word.
Obviously I'm not advocating you actually do spray your local cash-machine, but imagine te response if every scamera in the UK was "bombed" on the same day? Now there's a thought...
>> Edited by S Works on Friday 31st December 12:06
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