Joining the Police

[Derek Smith]

Ki3r said:

Can I ask what your plans are now?

[HantsRat]

Bigends said:

This has been the case since the year dot- and was part of the deal when we joined wasnt it?

It has indeed. Just letting potential new recruits know.

[Greendubber]

HantsRat said:

Bigends said:

This has been the case since the year dot- and was part of the deal when we joined wasnt it?

It has indeed. Just letting potential new recruits know.

To be fair when I joined 'cancelled rest days' were a rarity.

Now, due to low numbers it's just an easy way to fill they gaps and get branded as an 'exigency of duty' when it clearly isn't.

A football match in 2 months time isn't an exigency of duty, it's just a way to meet staffing now and people are pissed off with it.

[Derek Smith]

Greendubber said:

To be fair when I joined 'cancelled rest days' were a rarity.

Now, due to low numbers it's just an easy way to fill they gaps and get branded as an 'exigency of duty' when it clearly isn't.

A football match in 2 months time isn't an exigency of duty, it's just a way to meet staffing now and people are pissed off with it.

It goes in cycles. In the 70s there were fights for overtime especially rest days. I worked all but 3 days a month on average over a year or so. I needed to given the pay. Once we got the pay increase in 79(?) et seq as it was not funded the only way to pay for it was to cut overtime. Thankfully, with all the demonstrations and football thuggery going on, three RDs were there for those public order trained. Then there was the big strike and even those who didn't go got lots of overtime, with 12-hour shifts being the norm as well as rest days.

Post strike, the promises of cost of living increases faded into the gloom and the service was no longer the toast of the tory faithful so overtime was scarce.

Then, when inspectors no longer received overtime pay, the hours increased. I worked six weeks of 12 hour shifts. ie 60 hour weeks, and despite this my sergeant took home more pay than me. My force was up to strength on inspectors for the first time in living memory according to the ex duties sergeant who had retained his post when it was civilianised. He'd designed the spreadsheet.

The cutbacks, starting around 2000, meant no overtime budget and I often ran without another supervisor available other than in the custody suite.

There was never a sensible duties system, mainly due I think to the constant changes from the government and Home Office. One force had a system whereby officers were on patrol when the demands were highest. HMIC's 'by the book' chap soon put a stop to that. Everybody was happy, well happyish. The PCs would have preferred to not have split shifts but allowances were made for travelling and all of a sudden, and for nearly two years, when there was a call we had officers available to answer. Couldn't have that of course. Regs are regs, and no way were the regs going to be altered.

[Sa Calobra]

HantsRat said:

I value time off more than overtime. I don't know one single person that would work for free and I know lots in the private sector (Unless volunteering)

A word for you "salary".

I've never worked in a company that paid overtime. It was accepted that people worked regularly 2hours+ ontop of your contracted hours daily. In one industry I worked in (5pm contracted finish) if people left before 7 daily even if you had finished all your work you were seen as not a team player. "Work hard play hard".

Your not working for free, it's part of the understanding...That is unless your friends do get overtime (manufacturing is one) or they work exactly 9-5.

[wjb]

Red 4 said:

You'll spend at least your first 2 years (probably many more) at the sharp end so if you fancy rolling around on the floor with a pissed/ coked up 18 year old scaffolder who is trying his best to knock your block off or stab you, if you like dealing with the same idiots who have absolutely no respect for anyone or anything day in, day out, acting as a marriage guidance counsellor/ surrogate parent because the real parents are too inadequate/ pissed/ lazy to care, crappy "facebook" jobs, sudden deaths (probationers often deal with these), working way past your scheduled finishing time, rest days cancelled at a moments notice, shifts, etc. etc etc.. and being the shift sprog at nearly 50 (again, no disrespect intended) then crack on.

Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. It isn't all fast cars, blue lights and adrenaline. The reality, especially as a new starter, is quite different to that.

Have you considered a role in recruitment?

[Derek Smith]

Sa Calobra said:

A word for you "salary".

I've never worked in a company that paid overtime. It was accepted that people worked regularly 2hours+ ontop of your contracted hours daily. In one industry I worked in (5pm contracted finish) if people left before 7 daily even if you had finished all your work you were seen as not a team player. "Work hard play hard".

Your not working for free, it's part of the understanding...That is unless your friends do get overtime (manufacturing is one) or they work exactly 9-5.

I'm confused. If you had finished all your work, you still stay for another two hours?

There is ample evidence to show that a motivated workforce working shorter hours will perform better overall that one that is required to work long hours. Diminishing returns and all that.

Now I'm my own boss I ensure that I work to less than 2 hours at a stretch. If I work longer, the drop in quality is obvious, at least to me. A twenty minute rest, perhaps on PH, means that when I return to my job I'm buzzing again. In the afternoon I will probably limit the afternoon stints to a bit over an hour. Six hours a day is my maximum if I want quality output.

Ten hours is too long as a norm.

[Elroy Blue]

Sa Calobra said:

A word for you "salary".

I've never worked in a company that paid overtime. It was accepted that people worked regularly 2hours+ ontop of your contracted hours daily. In one industry I worked in (5pm contracted finish) if people left before 7 daily even if you had finished all your work you were seen as not a team player. "Work hard play hard".

Your not working for free, it's part of the understanding...That is unless your friends do get overtime (manufacturing is one) or they work exactly 9-5.

I work plenty of hours overtime that doesn't get paid. There is no budget, but we can't walk away from jobs at the end of the shift. So yes, I often 'work for free'

Policing today is in crisis. Even the Chief Constables are starting to speak out it's got that bad. I've never seen so many probationers leave within the first two years. It's simply not worth the money or the effect on family and health.

[Sa Calobra]

Derek Smith said:

I'm confused. If you had finished all your work, you still stay for another two hours?

There is ample evidence to show that a motivated workforce working shorter hours will perform better overall that one that is required to work long hours. Diminishing returns and all that.

Now I'm my own boss I ensure that I work to less than 2 hours at a stretch. If I work longer, the drop in quality is obvious, at least to me. A twenty minute rest, perhaps on PH, means that when I return to my job I'm buzzing again. In the afternoon I will probably limit the afternoon stints to a bit over an hour. Six hours a day is my maximum if I want quality output.

Ten hours is too long as a norm.

Yes, I remember interviewing for a few competitors and the subject always arose on hours and what was expected. My wife is part time. She is given a full-time section to look after, the same as everyone else's. I've kicked up over this but she prizes her Friday day 'off'. Crackers.

[Bigends]

Elroy Blue said:

I work plenty of hours overtime that doesn't get paid. There is no budget, but we can't walk away from jobs at the end of the shift. So yes, I often 'work for free'

Policing today is in crisis. Even the Chief Constables are starting to speak out it's got that bad. I've never seen so many probationers leave within the first two years. It's simply not worth the money or the effect on family and health.

Always did have to work the first half hour for free - you should be paid for any above and beyond that

[HantsRat]

Sa Calobra said:

A word for you "salary".

I've never worked in a company that paid overtime. It was accepted that people worked regularly 2hours+ ontop of your contracted hours daily. In one industry I worked in (5pm contracted finish) if people left before 7 daily even if you had finished all your work you were seen as not a team player. "Work hard play hard".

Your not working for free, it's part of the understanding...That is unless your friends do get overtime (manufacturing is one) or they work exactly 9-5.

That's just ridiculous. The managers must be laughing all the way to the bank.

The employees fault though. They should leave when there contracted daily hours are up. If they are not getting paid, why on earth stay? (Unless they are having an affair with the hot receptionist)

[Defcon5]

Bigends said:

Always did have to work the first half hour for free - you should be paid for any above and beyond that

I understood it that a previous pay rise inluded extra with the understanding that it pre paid for all those half hours?

[Greendubber]

Defcon5 said:

Bigends said:

Always did have to work the first half hour for free - you should be paid for any above and beyond that

I understood it that a previous pay rise inluded extra with the understanding that it pre paid for all those half hours?

First time I've heard that.

[Bigends]

Greendubber said:

Defcon5 said:

Bigends said:

Always did have to work the first half hour for free - you should be paid for any above and beyond that

I understood it that a previous pay rise inluded extra with the understanding that it pre paid for all those half hours?

First time I've heard that.

From the Federation site
Casual Overtime
This term applies where members are not informed at the commencement of their
tour of duty or rostered shift that they will be required to remain on duty after the tour
or shift ends. On each of the first four occasions in any week when they work casual
overtime, not having been informed at the commencement of the tour or shift that
this would be required, the first 30 minutes of such overtime worked is disregarded in
calculating the overtime allowance due. This disregard applies also to equivalent
time off, should they choose time off in lieu of paid overtime

Edited by Bigends on Wednesday 15th November 13:22

[Greendubber]

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Defcon5 said:

Bigends said:

Always did have to work the first half hour for free - you should be paid for any above and beyond that

I understood it that a previous pay rise inluded extra with the understanding that it pre paid for all those half hours?

First time I've heard that.

From the Federation site
Casual Overtime
This term applies where members are not informed at the commencement of their
tour of duty or rostered shift that they will be required to remain on duty after the tour
or shift ends. On each of the first four occasions in any week when they work casual
overtime, not having been informed at the commencement of the tour or shift that
this would be required, the first 30 minutes of such overtime worked is disregarded in
calculating the overtime allowance due. This disregard applies also to equivalent
time off, should they choose time off in lieu of paid overtime

Edited by Bigends on Wednesday 15th November 13:22

I'm aware of the half hour for the queen, if you look at the bit I was replying to it's regarding a pay rise to cover the free half hours previously mentioned by defcon5

[Pothole]

The Mad Monk said:

I considered joining in 1957, but didn't. Did I do the right thing, or the wrong thing?

Undoubtedly

[Andyblue]

So what does a front line top band 24/7 response PC earn a year ?

[Greendubber]

Andyblue said:

So what does a front line top band 24/7 response PC earn a year ?

£38,382

[HantsRat]

Andyblue said:

So what does a front line top band 24/7 response PC earn a year ?

http://www.polfed.org/ranks/3277.aspx

[Peperami]

Greendubber said:

£38,382

And then another £7k in London, and around £2k elsewhere in the South east. Although with the price of housing that's not enough to cover the shortfall really compared to other parts of the country.

Join for the people, the fun and the experience. Most specialise, very few stay on response further than 10 years as you'd risk burn out.

Its not always good, but when it is there's no job like it.