Joining the Police
Discussion
La Liga said:
More accurate crime recording is a double edged sword. On one hand the data is a more accurate reflection of what’s happening in a force area. On the other, the absolute bottom of the barrel rubbish like malicious communication “offences” are now recorded.
This doesn’t have to be a problem if there’s a good structure in place to file as quickly as possible, but many things can hinder this.
But those Mal coms can add to a picture between an offender and victim. Whereas before how much was never recorded? As part of a bigger picture on an offending individual they add more than they detract.This doesn’t have to be a problem if there’s a good structure in place to file as quickly as possible, but many things can hinder this.
Sa Calobra said:
La Liga said:
More accurate crime recording is a double edged sword. On one hand the data is a more accurate reflection of what’s happening in a force area. On the other, the absolute bottom of the barrel rubbish like malicious communication “offences” are now recorded.
This doesn’t have to be a problem if there’s a good structure in place to file as quickly as possible, but many things can hinder this.
But those Mal coms can add to a picture between an offender and victim. Whereas before how much was never recorded? As part of a bigger picture on an offending individual they add more than they detract.This doesn’t have to be a problem if there’s a good structure in place to file as quickly as possible, but many things can hinder this.
If you want to build a picture of what is happening in an area that is what Intel systems are for.
My force has a unit dedicated to "Crime management".
It is staffed 99% by civilians.
Report your crime and if the criteria are met it gets thrown in the bin ... Sorry, I mean it gets recorded and, er, filed.
Bigends said:
If the crime recording process is to be changed then how?
What doesnt get recorded and who decides?
If for example a minimum limit for example £150 is put on value of damage, theft etc before crimes are recorded, what happens if somebody is dealt with for those offences - do we then record those crimes? What happens if the victim suffers crime on a regular basis - but the value is under the prescribed limit - do we ignore those repeat victims?
Those minor harrassment / malicious comms offences can soon escalate to more serious offences. Early reports are the time to get involved and stop escalation.
The current rules clearly need a re-write but i'm certainly not sure what they should look like now.
You’re right, it’s not so simple. What doesnt get recorded and who decides?
If for example a minimum limit for example £150 is put on value of damage, theft etc before crimes are recorded, what happens if somebody is dealt with for those offences - do we then record those crimes? What happens if the victim suffers crime on a regular basis - but the value is under the prescribed limit - do we ignore those repeat victims?
Those minor harrassment / malicious comms offences can soon escalate to more serious offences. Early reports are the time to get involved and stop escalation.
The current rules clearly need a re-write but i'm certainly not sure what they should look like now.
It’d be nice for it to somehow revolve around a discretionary, rational judgement of risk. Police officers make quite finessed judgements of risk all the time so the skill set exists. I don’t think there have been too many issues with how nearly all “Facebook threats” incidents have been resolved prior to HMICFSR (or whatever they’re called now) have been more insistent.
If it’s within a domestic / hate / other vulnerability context then the time / effort spent is probably worth it due to the risks involved.
With the other ones, like idiots calling one another names on Facebook, there’s rarely any risk / public interest and the time / effort isn’t justified.
Sa Calobra said:
But those Mal coms can add to a picture between an offender and victim. Whereas before how much was never recorded? As part of a bigger picture on an offending individual they add more than they detract.
Youre right, they can. See my reply above. I’m talking about the absolute bottom of the barrel practically zero risk time wasting. ED209 said:
Does the bloke with 15 years in realise he probably won't be able to retire in 15 years??? He's probably one of the many that doesn't understand what has been done to his pension!
I have got 21 years service and I'm still somewhere between 14 and 20 years from my pension.
I personally am slowly coming to realise that the worst thing we have all done is have that "can do" attitude as mentioned by another poster. That attitude has resulted in us being treated like dirt by the government with working conditions being constantly eroded and most peoples work load increased to an unmanageable and dangerous level.
I have also realised what the answer is, for individual cops to stop caring, to go to work and deal with everything they are allocated thoroughly and properly and not be constantly rushing to the next job without finishing the first one. Not caring about the many jobs that are always outstanding without officers to deal with them. Not caring that we are now providing a fairly crap service to decent people because we are so over stretched. It is only by not caring that good people will survive without being mentally and physically broken. I see very good people falling down mentally every single day simply because demand and the pressure to deal with that demand is so great.
Me? I definitely fall into the broken category at the moment but I still care, I still go to work and do my best, I don't want to take time off sick because I don't want to drop my colleagues deeper in it. I know I am doing the wrong thing but its because I care. I just wish I didn't any more.
These are very wise words and totally true. I could type for hours on end about this.I have got 21 years service and I'm still somewhere between 14 and 20 years from my pension.
I personally am slowly coming to realise that the worst thing we have all done is have that "can do" attitude as mentioned by another poster. That attitude has resulted in us being treated like dirt by the government with working conditions being constantly eroded and most peoples work load increased to an unmanageable and dangerous level.
I have also realised what the answer is, for individual cops to stop caring, to go to work and deal with everything they are allocated thoroughly and properly and not be constantly rushing to the next job without finishing the first one. Not caring about the many jobs that are always outstanding without officers to deal with them. Not caring that we are now providing a fairly crap service to decent people because we are so over stretched. It is only by not caring that good people will survive without being mentally and physically broken. I see very good people falling down mentally every single day simply because demand and the pressure to deal with that demand is so great.
Me? I definitely fall into the broken category at the moment but I still care, I still go to work and do my best, I don't want to take time off sick because I don't want to drop my colleagues deeper in it. I know I am doing the wrong thing but its because I care. I just wish I didn't any more.
OP - forget joining the police. or what's left of it, and find something else. Anything else would be better than make the huge mistake of joining up. The officers that post on here are not allowed to give the full facts or speak properly about the state of the job through fear of the consequences of being identified.
Run as far from this idea as you possibly can, unless your 21 and fancy 2 to 3 years of fun before resigning and following a different career path.
I’ll go against the grain. I’m 10 months in role in a small but busy county force. Yes it’s busy, and yes, there is a lot of moaning - some of it well justified. We obviously have the same issues with dross Facebook threats mal comms offences and the like being crimed and clogging up your workload for weeks before finally showing as filed...
However, I worked in another sector for 10 years prior to joining and have 100% made the right decision.
There’s an awful lot of freedom and independence in the role. Freedom to think for yourself and do what you think is right and appropriate. Coming from a role which was micromanaged to the nth degree, being allowed on the crime investigation team where I am currently to organise myself and just crack on with what I choose to prioritise is very liberating.
There’s a huge amount of variety also in the job. I can’t think of many roles where you combine so many different skill sets and genuinely can have no idea what’s going to happen on any given day. That will obviously suit some more than others.
There’s great banter in all the teams I’ve worked in, and I genuinely look forward to going to work each day. Having been through a bad period where I couldn’t get myself out of bed in the morning for my old job, that impact on my wellbeing and quality of life is immeasurable. And the pension, whilst obviously being a shadow of what it was is still one of the best out there...
However, I worked in another sector for 10 years prior to joining and have 100% made the right decision.
There’s an awful lot of freedom and independence in the role. Freedom to think for yourself and do what you think is right and appropriate. Coming from a role which was micromanaged to the nth degree, being allowed on the crime investigation team where I am currently to organise myself and just crack on with what I choose to prioritise is very liberating.
There’s a huge amount of variety also in the job. I can’t think of many roles where you combine so many different skill sets and genuinely can have no idea what’s going to happen on any given day. That will obviously suit some more than others.
There’s great banter in all the teams I’ve worked in, and I genuinely look forward to going to work each day. Having been through a bad period where I couldn’t get myself out of bed in the morning for my old job, that impact on my wellbeing and quality of life is immeasurable. And the pension, whilst obviously being a shadow of what it was is still one of the best out there...
timbob said:
I’ll go against the grain. I’m 10 months in role in a small but busy county force. Yes it’s busy, and yes, there is a lot of moaning - some of it well justified. We obviously have the same issues with dross Facebook threats mal comms offences and the like being crimed and clogging up your workload for weeks before finally showing as filed...
However, I worked in another sector for 10 years prior to joining and have 100% made the right decision.
There’s an awful lot of freedom and independence in the role. Freedom to think for yourself and do what you think is right and appropriate. Coming from a role which was micromanaged to the nth degree, being allowed on the crime investigation team where I am currently to organise myself and just crack on with what I choose to prioritise is very liberating.
There’s a huge amount of variety also in the job. I can’t think of many roles where you combine so many different skill sets and genuinely can have no idea what’s going to happen on any given day. That will obviously suit some more than others.
There’s great banter in all the teams I’ve worked in, and I genuinely look forward to going to work each day. Having been through a bad period where I couldn’t get myself out of bed in the morning for my old job, that impact on my wellbeing and quality of life is immeasurable. And the pension, whilst obviously being a shadow of what it was is still one of the best out there...
I can tell you're new with that positive attiude However, I worked in another sector for 10 years prior to joining and have 100% made the right decision.
There’s an awful lot of freedom and independence in the role. Freedom to think for yourself and do what you think is right and appropriate. Coming from a role which was micromanaged to the nth degree, being allowed on the crime investigation team where I am currently to organise myself and just crack on with what I choose to prioritise is very liberating.
There’s a huge amount of variety also in the job. I can’t think of many roles where you combine so many different skill sets and genuinely can have no idea what’s going to happen on any given day. That will obviously suit some more than others.
There’s great banter in all the teams I’ve worked in, and I genuinely look forward to going to work each day. Having been through a bad period where I couldn’t get myself out of bed in the morning for my old job, that impact on my wellbeing and quality of life is immeasurable. And the pension, whilst obviously being a shadow of what it was is still one of the best out there...
Just remember them, you're going to need them down the line
OpulentBob said:
Depressing reading, this thread over the last page or two. Pessimism, infighting, knocking each other's departments, "Ooh THAT'S not a Gucci role", "expect to be a train driver in 10 years", etc etc. Is it any wonder that people aren't happy?
It's not infighting, it's called piss taking. It's one of the only positive things left in the service!Greendubber said:
OpulentBob said:
Depressing reading, this thread over the last page or two. Pessimism, infighting, knocking each other's departments, "Ooh THAT'S not a Gucci role", "expect to be a train driver in 10 years", etc etc. Is it any wonder that people aren't happy?
It's not infighting, it's called piss taking. It's one of the only positive things left in the service!
Sa Calobra said:
I've heard a few people talking that they'd love to be a train driver, delivery driver for a supermarket etc but with no disrespect meant they are the ones that would stand on a scene or be happiest walking the streets for hours.
No disrespect, but when I had about 15 years service in, I was offered a beat role which no-one else wanted ( rough council). This involved a lot of 'walking the streets for hours'. After 7 years response, it was a great job. When I wasn't walking, I used the bus a lot. I only left the role because I was promoted. Walking is the only way to know an area well. I am aware that times have changed, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with walking the streets.
XCP said:
Sa Calobra said:
I've heard a few people talking that they'd love to be a train driver, delivery driver for a supermarket etc but with no disrespect meant they are the ones that would stand on a scene or be happiest walking the streets for hours.
No disrespect, but when I had about 15 years service in, I was offered a beat role which no-one else wanted ( rough council). This involved a lot of 'walking the streets for hours'. After 7 years response, it was a great job. When I wasn't walking, I used the bus a lot. I only left the role because I was promoted. Walking is the only way to know an area well. I am aware that times have changed, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with walking the streets.
The only downside is that you are often treated like you are retarded. It's major advantage is that you can't be punished by transferring you to a role senior officers think no one wants. You are there.
A council estate in Brighton was described - inaccurately - by a national rag as the worst estate in the country. It wasn't the worst in the county. They doubled up on the beat bobbies knowing full well that that was all that was needed. A hit squad of one PC who was bright, hard working, committed and didn't take sh*t from anyone. His only problem was that he didn't take if from command rank officers. He was brilliant.
I think we won't see those days back, at least with warranted officers.
Muncher said:
My brother in law and sister in law are both coppers, fairly new in, 2-3 years out of training. One has passed the firearms course and the other has just started as a sergeant, they both love it, no moans from either of them, so it's not all bad.
They are clearly flyers. After 3 years service I was still learning the trade and would have been laughed at if I had applied for firearms or promotion!pavarotti1980 said:
La Liga said:
CID isn’t a promotion, it’s a specialism, if that’s what you meant by promotion.
My read into that would be they’re getting away from patrol / response work ASAP.
I don’t blame them.
it is when you go from uniform PC towards CID sgt though My read into that would be they’re getting away from patrol / response work ASAP.
I don’t blame them.
ked.I often wonder whether cops have a skewed idea of the private sector. I don't know many who have left of their own accord and not through retirement who have made a big success of doing so or who have not tried to return.
There's no many in the private sector who can retire middle 50s and then take another job on top of a pension and effectively come out with a much better overall package.
The continual good-will must reach a threshold though and we have probably passed it in some areas.
There's no many in the private sector who can retire middle 50s and then take another job on top of a pension and effectively come out with a much better overall package.
The continual good-will must reach a threshold though and we have probably passed it in some areas.
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