Joining the Police

[Pothole]

superlightr said:

Pothole said:

superlightr said:

has any service police noticed a reduction in "support" from the mop?

I feel very uneasy at the police being used by the govt to enforce covid restrictions. Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group as I see it as the arm of the govt enforcing unjust and immoral laws.

You've identified that they're being used, you know they can't just down tools and still you're negative to a nebulous entity that has no real form in the way you're imagining it? Maybe not your most intelligent decision?

interesting reaction.

unjust/immoral laws are there for us all to resist. Some of the recent published "enforcement" has I think been very heavy handed and disproportionate which has clearly been following the lead of the Govt. but which raises the question of if it is still a worthy career for new entrants and hence why I ask if serving officers have seen any noticeable change in the public reaction over the last 18mths

I have made lots of dumb decisions and a few good ones thankfully generally at the times it mattered.

In the past I would have thought a career in the police would have been good for my children (teens) but I think the last year or so has seen whatever esteem/respect for the police become lower in a number of people eyes because of the heavy handed and unjust enforcement of covid.
hence the question.

Not my point. You're an intelligent person overall, I believe. You must know I was addressing specifically this point

you said:

Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group

[ED209]

The police is good for younger people to join now,, get a degree paid for, an average salary and something impressive to put on your cv. Then leave as soon as you can.

This will happen a lot in the next few years as the job hasn’t had the foresight to tie anyone in.

[Don Roque]

superlightr said:

has any service police noticed a reduction in "support" from the mop?

I feel very uneasy at the police being used by the govt to enforce covid restrictions. Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group as I see it as the arm of the govt enforcing unjust and immoral laws.

I don't think so, not at all. The general public are mostly decent and on the whole are very grateful for the police doing a difficult job in unprecedented circumstances. They didn't have the option of saying no or staying at home and most decent folk are quite grateful that law and order was properly upheld.

[Pothole]

ED209 said:

The police is good for younger people to join now,, get a degree paid for, an average salary and something impressive to put on your cv. Then leave as soon as you can.

This will happen a lot in the next few years as the job hasn’t had the foresight to tie anyone in.

It's happening already.

[LosingGrip]

ED209 said:

The police is good for younger people to join now,, get a degree paid for, an average salary and something impressive to put on your cv. Then leave as soon as you can.

This will happen a lot in the next few years as the job hasn’t had the foresight to tie anyone in.

I was on the diploma intake which for me was fine. Joined at 29 and have no interest in going to uni now.

If I was younger would I have been happy with the degree? Yeah probably. Although having seen the amount of work the degree lot have to do is mad. On top of working full time shifts. Friend is currently on holiday doing assessments!

Downside to the degree is the pay. I know a lot of people that want to join but can’t afford the £18,000/£19,000 starting wage.

[Derek Smith]

ED209 said:

The police is good for younger people to join now,, get a degree paid for, an average salary and something impressive to put on your cv. Then leave as soon as you can.

This will happen a lot in the next few years as the job hasn’t had the foresight to tie anyone in.

It happened in the old days, which is why the pension regs were brought in. 50% left between 6 and 10 years, the mean being 7. The handcuffs worked.

Headhunters would offer packages that included comparative pension entitlements. For instance, banks would include share entitlement and other benefits. I was sold on bespoke office and secretary. If you've got a good answer to, 'Why do you want to leave?', ex-police are seen as something of a catch.

[Chicken Chaser]

So without cops going and retraining, what areas are they leaving to join?

At what point would you say you're handcuffed through the pension?

[Derek Smith]

Chicken Chaser said:

So without cops going and retraining, what areas are they leaving to join?

At what point would you say you're handcuffed through the pension?

You think there's a specific time? The pension regs have changed since my time, and most people didn't understand them at the time, and it'll take too long to clarify.

I don't remember suggesting that a police officer would not require training.

[Chicken Chaser]

Derek Smith said:

You think there's a specific time? The pension regs have changed since my time, and most people didn't understand them at the time, and it'll take too long to clarify.

I don't remember suggesting that a police officer would not require training.

Sorry Derek, I wasn't suggesting you had. I'm intrigued that's all.

[Red 4]

Neighbour's grandson joined West Mids last year.

From an intake of 50, 10 have already left. So yes, retention of new starters an issue.

I joined in '91 and retired in 2015 due to injury. Of my intake of about 30 all bar a couple are still serving (retirement imminent).

[JulianHJ]

Chicken Chaser said:

So without cops going and retraining, what areas are they leaving to join?

At what point would you say you're handcuffed through the pension?

I think if you're more than ten years in it becomes harder to justify leaving because of the pension, or at least it used to before the recent pension reforms.

In terms of what people go on to do, some examples of colleagues who've left:

Project management
Royal Mail management (recently moved on to Amazon)
Train driver (a really popular option; apparently they actively recruit officers)
The Pensions Regulator (investigations)
Cyber security roles (a number of people I've worked with; some forces have lost entire teams to this)
Estate agent
Electrician
Dental hygenist

Granted, some of those require additional training, however some people I know have done this whilst still working as officers (e.g. the electrician and the project manager). Those who work in the cyber field are particularly attractive to industry, to the extent there's been a drain nationally over the last few years.

[Terzo123]

Train driver is a very popular one.
MOD plod is also popular side step.
I know a few who have left to be IFAs.
Going back about 10 years, the oil industry poached hundreds of cops in Scotland for various roles.
Many young Cops have come out of the pension, so there's nothing tying them to the job.

[Pothole]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Red 4 said:

Neighbour's grandson joined West Mids last year.

From an intake of 50, 10 have already left. So yes, retention of new starters an issue.

Wouldn't surprise me. How revruitment and the promotion process is set out is awful.

A West Mids sergeant (about 4 years from retirement) told me recently that a few recent recruits he's had to work with have said they're only doing a couple of years to make their Linkedin profiles look better. They're the ones who hang back instead of getting stuck in when situations go a bit wonky. Not only mercenary in their approach, but potentially putting colleagues at risk.

[LosingGrip]

Terzo123 said:

Train driver is a very popular one.
MOD plod is also popular side step.
I know a few who have left to be IFAs.
Going back about 10 years, the oil industry poached hundreds of cops in Scotland for various roles.
Many young Cops have come out of the pension, so there's nothing tying them to the job.

I know a few who have left to become train drivers. Getting paid silly amounts of money.

Will I stay until I retire? That’s the plan (although not frontline, I’ve got half a plan in my head were I’d like my career to go). But who knows what is around the corner.

Pension wise I have no idea how much I’ll get by the time I retire. But it’s still better than the pension I was in at my old job.

[BossHogg]

Terzo123 said:

Train driver is a very popular one.
MOD plod is also popular side step.
I know a few who have left to be IFAs.
Going back about 10 years, the oil industry poached hundreds of cops in Scotland for various roles.
Many young Cops have come out of the pension, so there's nothing tying them to the job.

There are 3 ex civilian police officers and 3 ex military police NCOs in my county.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Pothole said:

A West Mids sergeant (about 4 years from retirement) told me recently that a few recent recruits he's had to work with have said they're only doing a couple of years to make their Linkedin profiles look better. They're the ones who hang back instead of getting stuck in when situations go a bit wonky. Not only mercenary in their approach, but potentially putting colleagues at risk.

Alot of the new ones who are hesitant to go in first are very critical, always have an armchair analyst viewpoint as well.

Saying that I know new/relative new ones who go straight in with courage and no risk assessment at all so it goes both ways.

[Alextodrive]

superlightr said:

Pothole said:

superlightr said:

has any service police noticed a reduction in "support" from the mop?

I feel very uneasy at the police being used by the govt to enforce covid restrictions. Its moved me to be quite negative towards the "police" as a group as I see it as the arm of the govt enforcing unjust and immoral laws.

You've identified that they're being used, you know they can't just down tools and still you're negative to a nebulous entity that has no real form in the way you're imagining it? Maybe not your most intelligent decision?

interesting reaction.

unjust/immoral laws are there for us all to resist. Some of the recent published "enforcement" has I think been very heavy handed and disproportionate which has clearly been following the lead of the Govt. but which raises the question of if it is still a worthy career for new entrants and hence why I ask if serving officers have seen any noticeable change in the public reaction over the last 18mths

I have made lots of dumb decisions and a few good ones thankfully generally at the times it mattered.

In the past I would have thought a career in the police would have been good for my children (teens) but I think the last year or so has seen whatever esteem/respect for the police become lower in a number of people eyes because of the heavy handed and unjust enforcement of covid.
hence the question.

Feel uneasy that the Govt used the police to enforce the law?

I think you've misunderstood how this works. As did most of the public these last 18 months.

It is the police's job to enforce the law. Not the ambulance service, not the fire brigade, not the military, not the department for work or pensions... etc

The police do not choose what laws get introduced or amended.

In some small way, through your vote at each general election, you do.

So you, along with the rest of the population of the UK who are eligible to vote are responsible for the legislation the police are tasked with enforcing. Not the police you are now annoyed with...

[carinaman]

Alextodrive said:

Feel uneasy that the Govt used the police to enforce the law?

They've not been doing that they have they?

Derbyshire police 'Do what Boris says' in an Email.

Laws are passed by Parliament. What Boris says isn't what the law is.

Many police officers have tried to enforce things that are not law.

[Derek Smith]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Alot of the new ones who are hesitant to go in first are very critical, always have an armchair analyst viewpoint as well.

Saying that I know new/relative new ones who go straight in with courage and no risk assessment at all so it goes both ways.

That's the opposite of what it was in my day. When a probationer I remember being held back by an experienced, but normally very active, PC when there was a call to a fight. He walked towards it, saying that it'll probably be over by the time we get to it even if we ran, and if it isn't, it's best to get there once it has settled a bit.

I remember being told by a sergeant to take things easy and then, as an inspector, saying exactly the same thing (and scaring myself a bit) to a shift probationer.

How can it change that much? Doesn't every newcomer want to get stuck in? It's the time to make all your mistakes. Sergeants are generally sympathetic towards someone who's over-estimated their skills level than those who hang back.

[Emily's dad]

27 years in for me. Counting the days.

Too many years of pay rises not keeping up with inflation.
Detrimental pension changes.
Direct entry Inspectors and Supt with no hands on knowledge of what I’m doing.
New recruits with such poor training they’re useless (not their fault, poor recruitment and training standards)
Entitled younger members of staff who don’t understand we work in a rank structured organisation, where you do what you’re told by someone of a higher rank.
Reduced numbers.
The list goes on.

I loved my first 10 years, large relief working in a busy inner London borough, that’s previous century now.
Since then a steady decline, a cumulative effect which has got me to the point I’m at now.

I still go in everyday and do my job to the best of my ability. Don’t love it anymore but with my age and length of service I won’t jack it in now, but I won’t shed a tear or look back on 2nd Feb 2024.

I used to say that I wouldn’t discourage my kids from following my career path, I would actively do so now.