Joining the Police
Discussion
Elroy Blue said:
He was the most experienced booby on his shift.
The new PCDA degree scheme is a disaster. A significant number of 18yr olds who think it's a university course with a bit of Police work experience tacked on ...
Booby ? Not sure if that's something to do with your search history or autocorrect. I don"t want to pry so I'll leave it there. The new PCDA degree scheme is a disaster. A significant number of 18yr olds who think it's a university course with a bit of Police work experience tacked on ...
West Mids - ion one intake of 50 last year, 10 have already resigned so I'm told. Apparently the job wasn't what they thought it was.
Emily's dad said:
Pension changes.
You used to be able to draw a full pension after 30 years service, so potentially retire at 48 years of age.
Now you can’t get full pension until 60 years of age.
Changes were introduced retrospectively, so many officers are facing additional years worked to get a now reduced pension.
How much notice did serving officers get of the change to the pension arrangements?You used to be able to draw a full pension after 30 years service, so potentially retire at 48 years of age.
Now you can’t get full pension until 60 years of age.
Changes were introduced retrospectively, so many officers are facing additional years worked to get a now reduced pension.
The government move the boundaries all the time.
They did it with performance related pay.
The performance related pay was part of your pensionable pay & as such your pension contributions included a deduction from it.
So many spent years paying that pension deduction into their pension pot.
The government then removed performance related pay from your pensionable pay, but when it came to pension time those years of contributions amounted to nothing.
Overnight it no longer formed part of your pensionable pay for assessing your pension, any prior contributions were not included in the assessment of your pension & you didn't get the contributions back. You just fell one side of the line or other & those over the line were instantly worse off than those who fell just before the line.
They did it with performance related pay.
The performance related pay was part of your pensionable pay & as such your pension contributions included a deduction from it.
So many spent years paying that pension deduction into their pension pot.
The government then removed performance related pay from your pensionable pay, but when it came to pension time those years of contributions amounted to nothing.
Overnight it no longer formed part of your pensionable pay for assessing your pension, any prior contributions were not included in the assessment of your pension & you didn't get the contributions back. You just fell one side of the line or other & those over the line were instantly worse off than those who fell just before the line.
I occasionally read a few police threads where current and former officers post and these last 2 pages have been about the best I have read that I can remember. All the answers that the people who question "why" officers feel the way they do or can't get out are here, and what emilys dad posted is almost word for word what my experience is, I could have posted it myself.
This is also a shared view across the board, there are very very few people with 15+ years service that don't feel this way. Something happens again at 20 years service however, which is a little more absolute, this is when you plan how you intend to see out the final years of your service. I passed that point and remember the change in my feelings well - it became all about self preservation and making it work for me, zero time for the job itself after all the grief it has put me through whether that be pension related or general failings to recognize my talents as an individual. I have always maintained modern day policing is a numbers game about bums on seats only and nothing else, and that is exactly what it is. There are 30 seats to fill, so find 30 bums regardless of how effective or dynamic those bums are. Once those bums are in place there is also no shifting them - and this career security is appealing to many which may be why they join in the first place. What your left with is no overall incentive to work hard, as long as the job is getting done more or less it maters not how well it is done. Over time this leads to resentment as people have differing work ethics. But the same pot of money is renewed by government each year regardless which is then fought over by numerous layers of middle management, these days many of them direct entrants with no experience of the service at all. This model works well in the public sector but would not last in the private sector as it is so inefficient.
I am in a similar position to Vonhosen now in terms of my career path, niche role, non public facing and now with a hand in the training world delivering training for my role. However I have been stung by the pension changes. Currently I have no idea when I can retire or what I am entitled to, I am supposed to go at 49 years of age with 30 years under my belt. I am amongst the worst effected of the pension changes and there is no overall solution in site yet despite he fact we have won the legal case against the government in the way it handles the transitional changes.
This is also a shared view across the board, there are very very few people with 15+ years service that don't feel this way. Something happens again at 20 years service however, which is a little more absolute, this is when you plan how you intend to see out the final years of your service. I passed that point and remember the change in my feelings well - it became all about self preservation and making it work for me, zero time for the job itself after all the grief it has put me through whether that be pension related or general failings to recognize my talents as an individual. I have always maintained modern day policing is a numbers game about bums on seats only and nothing else, and that is exactly what it is. There are 30 seats to fill, so find 30 bums regardless of how effective or dynamic those bums are. Once those bums are in place there is also no shifting them - and this career security is appealing to many which may be why they join in the first place. What your left with is no overall incentive to work hard, as long as the job is getting done more or less it maters not how well it is done. Over time this leads to resentment as people have differing work ethics. But the same pot of money is renewed by government each year regardless which is then fought over by numerous layers of middle management, these days many of them direct entrants with no experience of the service at all. This model works well in the public sector but would not last in the private sector as it is so inefficient.
I am in a similar position to Vonhosen now in terms of my career path, niche role, non public facing and now with a hand in the training world delivering training for my role. However I have been stung by the pension changes. Currently I have no idea when I can retire or what I am entitled to, I am supposed to go at 49 years of age with 30 years under my belt. I am amongst the worst effected of the pension changes and there is no overall solution in site yet despite he fact we have won the legal case against the government in the way it handles the transitional changes.
Although the ex officers on here seem a bit negative, as is often the way with older workers in many industries, one positive if you are 18 is that it means there’s some great career opportunities for climbing the ladder! If 20% drop out after 1 year, that’s competition that is gone. If most of the people in your unit (area?) are young, it also means you’ve just got to get ahead of them by proving yourself better. A bit like you don’t need to be the quickest to escape the bear, just quicker the then the bloke next to you.
I feel I left response too soon.
For all it's negatives no day was the same and the surreal experiences!
I was talking to someone recently and explained the level 2 public order refresher and why my voice was hoarse.
He said 'you get paid to do that?! Wow!'
Sometimes I think we forget just how varied and great it can be..
For all it's negatives no day was the same and the surreal experiences!
I was talking to someone recently and explained the level 2 public order refresher and why my voice was hoarse.
He said 'you get paid to do that?! Wow!'
Sometimes I think we forget just how varied and great it can be..
CoolHands said:
Although the ex officers on here seem a bit negative, as is often the way with older workers in many industries, one positive if you are 18 is that it means there’s some great career opportunities for climbing the ladder! If 20% drop out after 1 year, that’s competition that is gone. If most of the people in your unit (area?) are young, it also means you’ve just got to get ahead of them by proving yourself better. A bit like you don’t need to be the quickest to escape the bear, just quicker the then the bloke next to you.
But that's exactly the point - climbing the ladder is not based on merit, credit or value. Where I am it is an outsourced process marked by a computer more or less. That said the goalposts change each year. The promotion exam is run nationally and there is no link or relevance at all to an officers home force. You can shine as bright as a galaxy at work, its irrelevant, the process is about ticking boxes designed by a third party, where all your previous hard work and achievements don't count for anything.You have the opportunity to bring those to the table during interview, but interview is usually the last step of a long winded process that many feel is not for for purpose.
Armchair_Expert said:
CoolHands said:
Although the ex officers on here seem a bit negative, as is often the way with older workers in many industries, one positive if you are 18 is that it means there’s some great career opportunities for climbing the ladder! If 20% drop out after 1 year, that’s competition that is gone. If most of the people in your unit (area?) are young, it also means you’ve just got to get ahead of them by proving yourself better. A bit like you don’t need to be the quickest to escape the bear, just quicker the then the bloke next to you.
But that's exactly the point - climbing the ladder is not based on merit, credit or value. Where I am it is an outsourced process marked by a computer more or less. That said the goalposts change each year. The promotion exam is run nationally and there is no link or relevance at all to an officers home force. You can shine as bright as a galaxy at work, its irrelevant, the process is about ticking boxes designed by a third party, where all your previous hard work and achievements don't count for anything.You have the opportunity to bring those to the table during interview, but interview is usually the last step of a long winded process that many feel is not for for purpose.
When I was in my early teens a ex Army boxer PC stopped me turning bad. I've done the same (I hope).
Then there's saving someone's life.
How many stocks and shares jobs do that?
I love the job. Our partner agencies work equally as hard. Ambulance possibly even harder.
It's a job of huge highs and lows.
Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Sunday 4th July 20:14
Hugo Stiglitz said:
I feel I left response too soon.
For all it's negatives no day was the same and the surreal experiences!
It's the job that I joined to do & I did enjoy it when I was doing it for the 16 years that I did.For all it's negatives no day was the same and the surreal experiences!
However I was lured away by a single specialism that I really enjoyed & it was a challenge I wanted to take up in my own personal development.
Once away from the response part of the job & the longer I was away, it became harder to return to that role. With seeing from outside the erosion of the role & the increased demands/workload etc for no thanks at all, I was of a mind that I'd seen/experienced the best I was going to of that role & it was not going to get better only worse.
I didn't regret any of those 16 years though.
CoolHands said:
Although the ex officers on here seem a bit negative, as is often the way with older workers in many industries, one positive if you are 18 is that it means there’s some great career opportunities for climbing the ladder! If 20% drop out after 1 year, that’s competition that is gone. If most of the people in your unit (area?) are young, it also means you’ve just got to get ahead of them by proving yourself better. A bit like you don’t need to be the quickest to escape the bear, just quicker the then the bloke next to you.
I agree. I spoke with a number of police officers before I joined, and the longer in service they were, the more they didn't like the job. That said, I mostly spoke to patrolling officers. I asked one PC, with a couple of years in, what he'd done that week, and it seemed great to me. Lots of different tasks, calls and jobs. A few weeks before, he'd saved someone's life. I asked him if he'd got an award, and he seemed bewildered by the question. It was obviously just part of the job.I think a lot depends on what the officers did. All the time on patrol can either turn you against the job or, as my local Kent PC, who was on my village beat, reckoned, it was money to help people. Most people. He loved it.
On advice from my father, every two years I changed role. I seemed always to be learning new things. I once worked with a chap who had 20+ years in traffic and I was grateful to my father.
I loved it in the main. I worked in what was, essentially, a factory before I joined the police. I perforated paper tape. I'd done that for 7 years. It was as boring as you have guessed. I was middle-aged in my 20s. Good money but it just meant for 10 hrs a day, I didn't have to engage brain. 3 years later, I pulled out a revolver and pointed it at a suspect, demanding that he drop the bag he was carrying. Two days later, I was involved in a series, 3 in fact, of armed raids all over London. We discovered the biggest ever (up until then) cannabis factory in England/Wales.
In the choice of that or working a keyboard, I think I chose correctly.
There are down-times, and not only queuing for the custoday officer. What job hasn’t? The money’s poor but some years ago there was concern that dentists had such a high suicide rate. Money ain’t everything.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
I feel I left response too soon.
For all it's negatives no day was the same and the surreal experiences!
Sometimes I think we forget just how varied and great it can be..
I think generally speaking most days are the same.For all it's negatives no day was the same and the surreal experiences!
Sometimes I think we forget just how varied and great it can be..
Same offenders, same petty disputes, same process repeated time and time again.
Occasionally a job pops up that is out of the ordinary or there's some excitement.
I'm with you on some of the surreal stuff though.
When you tell some tales most non-police folk look at you like you're bonkers and you must be making it up.
If the job teaches you one thing it's there's nowt stranger than folk.
Edited by Red 4 on Sunday 4th July 20:53
A colleague and I were once threatened by a man with an iguana. It might not have been an iguana, but it was a lizard of some description, about three feet long.
It was the middle of winter, at night, so fortunately, the lizard was pretty docile.
We were chatting about “the best bit” in the office the other day. All of us agreed it had been the first few years of working full shifts on a response team. You’re young enough to cope with the shifts, young enough that most people aren’t married or have kids, it’s exciting and you get to lock up the bad guys.
I also enjoyed traffic. Getting paid to drive, sometimes quite quickly and sometimes doing a TPAC, again while locking up people causing harm. Any cop who says they didn’t enjoy a blue light run is a bit of a fibber!
I’m glad I never did FLO though, either traffic or crime. The job’s broken me physically and mentally enough as it is.
It was the middle of winter, at night, so fortunately, the lizard was pretty docile.
We were chatting about “the best bit” in the office the other day. All of us agreed it had been the first few years of working full shifts on a response team. You’re young enough to cope with the shifts, young enough that most people aren’t married or have kids, it’s exciting and you get to lock up the bad guys.
I also enjoyed traffic. Getting paid to drive, sometimes quite quickly and sometimes doing a TPAC, again while locking up people causing harm. Any cop who says they didn’t enjoy a blue light run is a bit of a fibber!
I’m glad I never did FLO though, either traffic or crime. The job’s broken me physically and mentally enough as it is.
Dibble said:
A colleague and I were once threatened by a man with an iguana. It might not have been an iguana, but it was a lizard of some description, about three feet long.
It was the middle of winter, at night, so fortunately, the lizard was pretty docile.
.
Turned up at an assault once in the city centre. Bloke had been sparked out following an altercation with a group of youths.It was the middle of winter, at night, so fortunately, the lizard was pretty docile.
.
'Watch out for the snake" said my mate who was already there. WTF I thought as I looked down to see a rather large serpent who would have been more at home in The Amazon.
It turns out it was the bloke's pet and he liked to go walkies wiith the Godforsaken creature wrapped around his neck and shoulders under his coat. It had made a bid for freedom following the assault.
Cornered it in a shop doorway using a riot shield whilst thoroughly s
tting myself. I don't do snakes. Requested the RSPCA to attend on the hurry up with the biggest box they could find.Yup, nowt stranger than folk.😃
vonhosen said:
The government move the boundaries all the time.
They did it with performance related pay.
The performance related pay was part of your pensionable pay & as such your pension contributions included a deduction from it.
So many spent years paying that pension deduction into their pension pot.
The government then removed performance related pay from your pensionable pay, but when it came to pension time those years of contributions amounted to nothing.
Overnight it no longer formed part of your pensionable pay for assessing your pension, any prior contributions were not included in the assessment of your pension & you didn't get the contributions back. You just fell one side of the line or other & those over the line were instantly worse off than those who fell just before the line.
Boo hoo! Nearly everyone I know working in the private sector has had their pensions severely f@cked up, from freezing your “final salary” at what it was in 2010, to reducing amount per year from 1/40 to 1/50 to 1/60.They did it with performance related pay.
The performance related pay was part of your pensionable pay & as such your pension contributions included a deduction from it.
So many spent years paying that pension deduction into their pension pot.
The government then removed performance related pay from your pensionable pay, but when it came to pension time those years of contributions amounted to nothing.
Overnight it no longer formed part of your pensionable pay for assessing your pension, any prior contributions were not included in the assessment of your pension & you didn't get the contributions back. You just fell one side of the line or other & those over the line were instantly worse off than those who fell just before the line.
Hence what should have been a £40k a year pension in a couple of years, is now £18k in one major bank.
Overtime pay is non existent in most professional jobs let alone getting it to count towards pensions.
Cliffe60 said:
Boo hoo! Nearly everyone I know working in the private sector has had their pensions severely f@cked up, from freezing your “final salary” at what it was in 2010, to reducing amount per year from 1/40 to 1/50 to 1/60.
Hence what should have been a £40k a year pension in a couple of years, is now £18k in one major bank.
Overtime pay is non existent in most professional jobs let alone getting it to count towards pensions.
Not a great hardship in a cushy office role, safe and away from the dregs of society with very little risk to your physical and mental health. How many weddings, funerals and birthdays were you not allowed to attend in your banking role because the bank required you to work on a day off, and how many cancelled holidays were you forced to incur?Hence what should have been a £40k a year pension in a couple of years, is now £18k in one major bank.
Overtime pay is non existent in most professional jobs let alone getting it to count towards pensions.
The recent pension debacle was illegal, hence why it has been through the courts over the past 6 years and now successfully won by it's claimants. That is a significant outcome, not just some "oh well it happens to us all so stop whining about it" scenario.
Cliffe60 said:
Boo hoo! Nearly everyone I know working in the private sector has had their pensions severely f@cked up, from freezing your “final salary” at what it was in 2010, to reducing amount per year from 1/40 to 1/50 to 1/60.
Hence what should have been a £40k a year pension in a couple of years, is now £18k in one major bank.
Overtime pay is non existent in most professional jobs let alone getting it to count towards pensions.
Overtime payments in the police do not count towards pensions. Hence what should have been a £40k a year pension in a couple of years, is now £18k in one major bank.
Overtime pay is non existent in most professional jobs let alone getting it to count towards pensions.
Armchair_Expert said:
I occasionally read a few police threads where current and former officers post and these last 2 pages have been about the best I have read that I can remember. All the answers that the people who question "why" officers feel the way they do or can't get out are here, and what emilys dad posted is almost word for word what my experience is, I could have posted it myself.
This is also a shared view across the board, there are very very few people with 15+ years service that don't feel this way. Something happens again at 20 years service however, which is a little more absolute, this is when you plan how you intend to see out the final years of your service. I passed that point and remember the change in my feelings well - it became all about self preservation and making it work for me, zero time for the job itself after all the grief it has put me through whether that be pension related or general failings to recognize my talents as an individual. I have always maintained modern day policing is a numbers game about bums on seats only and nothing else, and that is exactly what it is. There are 30 seats to fill, so find 30 bums regardless of how effective or dynamic those bums are. Once those bums are in place there is also no shifting them - and this career security is appealing to many which may be why they join in the first place. What your left with is no overall incentive to work hard, as long as the job is getting done more or less it maters not how well it is done. Over time this leads to resentment as people have differing work ethics. But the same pot of money is renewed by government each year regardless which is then fought over by numerous layers of middle management, these days many of them direct entrants with no experience of the service at all. This model works well in the public sector but would not last in the private sector as it is so inefficient.
I am in a similar position to Vonhosen now in terms of my career path, niche role, non public facing and now with a hand in the training world delivering training for my role. However I have been stung by the pension changes. Currently I have no idea when I can retire or what I am entitled to, I am supposed to go at 49 years of age with 30 years under my belt. I am amongst the worst effected of the pension changes and there is no overall solution in site yet despite he fact we have won the legal case against the government in the way it handles the transitional changes.
You can still retire at 49 with 30 years in as you always could. Whether it’s financially viable for you is another matter.This is also a shared view across the board, there are very very few people with 15+ years service that don't feel this way. Something happens again at 20 years service however, which is a little more absolute, this is when you plan how you intend to see out the final years of your service. I passed that point and remember the change in my feelings well - it became all about self preservation and making it work for me, zero time for the job itself after all the grief it has put me through whether that be pension related or general failings to recognize my talents as an individual. I have always maintained modern day policing is a numbers game about bums on seats only and nothing else, and that is exactly what it is. There are 30 seats to fill, so find 30 bums regardless of how effective or dynamic those bums are. Once those bums are in place there is also no shifting them - and this career security is appealing to many which may be why they join in the first place. What your left with is no overall incentive to work hard, as long as the job is getting done more or less it maters not how well it is done. Over time this leads to resentment as people have differing work ethics. But the same pot of money is renewed by government each year regardless which is then fought over by numerous layers of middle management, these days many of them direct entrants with no experience of the service at all. This model works well in the public sector but would not last in the private sector as it is so inefficient.
I am in a similar position to Vonhosen now in terms of my career path, niche role, non public facing and now with a hand in the training world delivering training for my role. However I have been stung by the pension changes. Currently I have no idea when I can retire or what I am entitled to, I am supposed to go at 49 years of age with 30 years under my belt. I am amongst the worst effected of the pension changes and there is no overall solution in site yet despite he fact we have won the legal case against the government in the way it handles the transitional changes.
I am in the same position. If the 1987 pension scheme is extended until April 2022 as it currently is planned by the government that will give me almost 25 years service in that scheme. I will go and draw that when I have 30 years service then the new scheme pension when I hit 55.
Currently I am considering leaving once I have 25 years in and finding another job as I’m fed up with the way things are at the moment. At least that would mean my 1987 pension could be claimed when I hit 50 instead of being deferred until I am 60.
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