Dash Cam Speeding
Discussion
sonnenschein3000 said:
Tablecloth said:
I dealt with 7 drivers in one incident on the M40. One dash cam in lane 1, 7 driver's at high speed on lanes 2 and 3. All convicted at Oxford magistrates court.
Did the they measure the speed of each of the cars? I really can't spot the issues with this. Video cameras generally have a precise frame rate and the recordings can have their frame rate measured; there's your accurate time.
Distances are, except where they are not, available by measuring the distance between objects in the image that have been passed by the subject vehicle.
In some cameras and recordings there is additional information to establish releative accuracies.
Does the system need to be Type Approved? No
Does the system need to be calibrated? No
Do courts accept this type of evidence? Yes, as long as it is properly evidenced.
Have there been convictions? Yes, why wouldn't there be.
AFAIK they don't have to prove an exact speed, only that in the opinion of the trained officer observing the footage it exceeds the limit.
If the dashcam car is doing 70mph (often footage shows the speed of the car, and it can be cooberated in the same way they do with the in-car Police cameras - between two fixed points) and the others are clearly grossly in excess of that speed, then that would be readily apparent from the footage.
Like everything it could be disputed in court.
If the dashcam car is doing 70mph (often footage shows the speed of the car, and it can be cooberated in the same way they do with the in-car Police cameras - between two fixed points) and the others are clearly grossly in excess of that speed, then that would be readily apparent from the footage.
Like everything it could be disputed in court.
Tablecloth said:
Yes, without any problem whatsoever.
I really can't spot the issues with this. Video cameras generally have a precise frame rate and the recordings can have their frame rate measured; there's your accurate time.
Distances are, except where they are not, available by measuring the distance between objects in the image that have been passed by the subject vehicle.
In some cameras and recordings there is additional information to establish releative accuracies.
Does the system need to be Type Approved? No
Does the system need to be calibrated? No
Do courts accept this type of evidence? Yes, as long as it is properly evidenced.
Have there been convictions? Yes, why wouldn't there be.
So just the one witness for speeding?I really can't spot the issues with this. Video cameras generally have a precise frame rate and the recordings can have their frame rate measured; there's your accurate time.
Distances are, except where they are not, available by measuring the distance between objects in the image that have been passed by the subject vehicle.
In some cameras and recordings there is additional information to establish releative accuracies.
Does the system need to be Type Approved? No
Does the system need to be calibrated? No
Do courts accept this type of evidence? Yes, as long as it is properly evidenced.
Have there been convictions? Yes, why wouldn't there be.
Tablecloth said:
sonnenschein3000 said:
Sorry for bumping this thread but dashcams have been out for a few years now, has anyone heard of a story whereby someone was convicted for speeding from someone else's dashcam who then reported it to the police, provided that there was no other careless/dangerous driving or accident?
i.e. typical situation of what I'm getting at...... dual carriageway where a car with a dashcam is in lane 1 and someone comes bombing it down lane 2 and the dashcam owner reports the dashcam footage to the police. There is no accident or any careless/dangerous driving involved, just speed.
I dealt with 7 drivers in one incident on the M40. One dash cam in lane 1, 7 driver's at high speed on lanes 2 and 3. All convicted at Oxford magistrates court.i.e. typical situation of what I'm getting at...... dual carriageway where a car with a dashcam is in lane 1 and someone comes bombing it down lane 2 and the dashcam owner reports the dashcam footage to the police. There is no accident or any careless/dangerous driving involved, just speed.
Was the evidence tested by defence counsel, or did they plead guilty?
pingu393 said:
I don't see it as a problem as long as there isn't the infrastructure to analyse and prosecute the footage. That's why I think it will only be the dangerous stuff that will get in front of the courts.
In one of the books by Sci-Fi writer Harry Harrison, technology was such that computer AI could do stuff like this, and the world had effectively turned into a totalitarian police state, with everyone under constant surveillance and penalised for any infraction or deviance from norm. As you say, whilst it is still in the hands of humans, I doubt much will come of it. As soon as they can get computers to automatically analyse the data and penalise infractions, then it will be a real concern.
ClockworkCupcake said:
In one of the books by Sci-Fi writer Harry Harrison, technology was such that computer AI could do stuff like this, and the world had effectively turned into a totalitarian police state, with everyone under constant surveillance and penalised for any infraction or deviance from norm.
As you say, whilst it is still in the hands of humans, I doubt much will come of it. As soon as they can get computers to automatically analyse the data and penalise infractions, then it will be a real concern.
We're well on the way, the sad thing is how enthusiastic some people are about that. Seriously sad bAs you say, whilst it is still in the hands of humans, I doubt much will come of it. As soon as they can get computers to automatically analyse the data and penalise infractions, then it will be a real concern.
ds.Derek Smith said:
Tablecloth said:
Yes, without any problem whatsoever.
I really can't spot the issues with this. Video cameras generally have a precise frame rate and the recordings can have their frame rate measured; there's your accurate time.
Distances are, except where they are not, available by measuring the distance between objects in the image that have been passed by the subject vehicle.
In some cameras and recordings there is additional information to establish releative accuracies.
Does the system need to be Type Approved? No
Does the system need to be calibrated? No
Do courts accept this type of evidence? Yes, as long as it is properly evidenced.
Have there been convictions? Yes, why wouldn't there be.
So just the one witness for speeding?I really can't spot the issues with this. Video cameras generally have a precise frame rate and the recordings can have their frame rate measured; there's your accurate time.
Distances are, except where they are not, available by measuring the distance between objects in the image that have been passed by the subject vehicle.
In some cameras and recordings there is additional information to establish releative accuracies.
Does the system need to be Type Approved? No
Does the system need to be calibrated? No
Do courts accept this type of evidence? Yes, as long as it is properly evidenced.
Have there been convictions? Yes, why wouldn't there be.
One witness and the video.
In the case on the M40 the owner of the dashcam was a witness too.
If the event is recorded then why would you be referring to the number of witnesses?
Wow.
This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
oceanview said:
Wow.
This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
Yep - my daughter got a NIP based on the dashcam footage from a MOP of her crossing a few meters of solid line upon the return after an overtake of a slow moving vehicle. Absolute offense so no defense possible, just highly annoying that those do-gooders get such an elevated position of power. This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
oceanview said:
Wow.
This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
I had some fat bint gesturing at me to slow down past her house the other day. 30 limit and that happened to be what I was doing.This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
All the propaganda shovelled out nowadays by the State has these tedious people wound up and looking to get upset about speed (amongst other things), and most people when asked will overestimate the speed of a passing vehicle anyway. It's a small leap to envisage these same people, when behind the wheel, creaming their pants at the idea of reporting perceived (by them) wrongdoers to the authorities for summary justice, with or without dashcam footage.
oceanview said:
Wow.
This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
Hyperbole doesn't help anyone really. This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
I very much doubt, in fact I'd go out on a limb and say it's a certainty, that no one is getting prosecuted via dashcam footage for a quick squirt over the limit or a minor speeding transgression.
It doesn't take a lot of reading between the lines of Tablecloth's account of that particular case involving several cars that they weren't all just fast lane 80mph drivers....
Derek Smith said:
Can a member of the public give evidence of speed now?
They can provide a signed witness statement to the effect that X and Y happened in front of them and was recorded on a device that they own. Obviously not an expert witness as to the speed alleged, unless you were being obtuse in your question?EU_Foreigner said:
oceanview said:
Wow.
This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
Yep - my daughter got a NIP based on the dashcam footage from a MOP of her crossing a few meters of solid line upon the return after an overtake of a slow moving vehicle. Absolute offense so no defense possible, just highly annoying that those do-gooders get such an elevated position of power. This is all very depressing- we might as well get rid of all performance cars now as any overtake that briefly (and even safely) takes you over the limit might upset Mr & Mrs Uptight/dullard and they send the evidence off to the local plod and potentially you kiss goodbye to your licence!
I say "performance cars" as this is likely to upset them more- probably makes you flash/ arrogant/ show-off/ dangerous in there little world, perhaps - who knows but, you will even have to drive within the limits in that hatchback tdi so god help us all!!
On ringing my local 101 (Avon &Somerset) number for something that happenend at work- (not motoring related!) , the options they give you to decide where your call is redirected, did include an option to report any dashcam footage you would like to report!!
I think the police could become very busy if people start sending in lots of footage (will they even bother if no accidents/injuries) and some holier than thou people with dashcams might get them selves in bother either through there own driving or dobbing in the "wrong" person and having to think about there own future personal safety!!
Interesting thread, I am surprised that one aspect has not been raised yet....I have read threads where there has been an accident and the BIB confiscate the memory cards from all the dash cams so they can view them.
A few people responded to say that they would "lose" them but I doubt they would be thinking straight enough to remove the card and lose it before they realised what was happening.
It would be annoying to be prosecuted on the strength of your own dash cam (yes, I know that you shouldn't be doing anything wrong and all that)
A few people responded to say that they would "lose" them but I doubt they would be thinking straight enough to remove the card and lose it before they realised what was happening.
It would be annoying to be prosecuted on the strength of your own dash cam (yes, I know that you shouldn't be doing anything wrong and all that)
Caddyshack said:
Interesting thread, I am surprised that one aspect has not been raised yet....I have read threads where there has been an accident and the BIB confiscate the memory cards from all the dash cams so they can view them.
A few people responded to say that they would "lose" them but I doubt they would be thinking straight enough to remove the card and lose it before they realised what was happening.
It would be annoying to be prosecuted on the strength of your own dash cam (yes, I know that you shouldn't be doing anything wrong and all that)
I think in serious accidents - not necessarily in terms of metal being crushed, but more in terms of injury - vehicles are sometimes taken away for inspection. I presume a part of the police's investigation would be to look at the dashcam (in fact, i'm sure that's the first place they'd look). But they also look at things like e.g. did you get your front DVD player unlocked? (read the story from this website as an example, http://www.comand.co.uk/index.php/video--tv-in-mot... ) and perhaps other modifications and thus insurance validity.A few people responded to say that they would "lose" them but I doubt they would be thinking straight enough to remove the card and lose it before they realised what was happening.
It would be annoying to be prosecuted on the strength of your own dash cam (yes, I know that you shouldn't be doing anything wrong and all that)
If you've just crashed into someone and their head has flown 20ft down the road, I doubt that one's first instinct would be to think "Oh crap, my memory card"
Very true.
I know of a friend of a friend where part of the evidence that put him behind bars was his own iPhone trace as even with location services switched off it can be turned back on and still gives the trace of where you have been. It clearly showed him being in a certain part of Hereford at the exact times that MOD equipment went missing.
I know of a friend of a friend where part of the evidence that put him behind bars was his own iPhone trace as even with location services switched off it can be turned back on and still gives the trace of where you have been. It clearly showed him being in a certain part of Hereford at the exact times that MOD equipment went missing.
Caddyshack said:
Very true.
I know of a friend of a friend where part of the evidence that put him behind bars was his own iPhone trace as even with location services switched off it can be turned back on and still gives the trace of where you have been. It clearly showed him being in a certain part of Hereford at the exact times that MOD equipment went missing.
The Police can triangulate phones if they have a signal. A friend called the Police after his Mum had gone missing from her house without telling anyone. Turns out she'd taken herself off to the cinema on a whim. The Police located her relatively quickly following the report so I don't think it's a particularly difficult thing for them to do - it's certainly not the preserve of serious investigations.I know of a friend of a friend where part of the evidence that put him behind bars was his own iPhone trace as even with location services switched off it can be turned back on and still gives the trace of where you have been. It clearly showed him being in a certain part of Hereford at the exact times that MOD equipment went missing.
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