Unsafe evidence of speeding????
Discussion
I''m looking for for opinions/advice.
Got stopped last night and given a fixed penalty notice for doing 46.82mph in a 30mph zone.
They used the ''time and distance'' equipment attached to the police car''s speedo. It said the distance was 1.5 miles. The driver told the other officer not to write the distance on the ticket and that they would write it on their copy. Sound odd? Not when you hear the whole story..
I had pulled up alongside the marked Volvo T70 at traffic lights and waited on red. The road is dual carriageway heading out of town. We pulled away and headed down the dual carriageway. Just over 3 tenths of a mile from the lights is the national speed limit sign (I gauged it with my odometer this morning). We both accelerate up to 70 mph after the sign but approx 1.1 miles later the lights come on and I''m pulled!
Of course the average over the whole distance will be more than 30mph!! I think I''ve been stitced up, don''t you??
How can I go about finding out what distance they have put on their paperwork back at the station? Am I entitled to know this before I decide to plead not guilty? If I have to plead guilty before I find out I will be doomed if they have written down 0.3 miles or less. If they have put 1.5 miles I''m going to take it all the way and hopefully get these officers suspended from duty...
Bosshog : I can't say for certain that I hadn't exceeded 30mph. I was keeping pace with the police car (who may have been excedding the limit himself!) but no way was I over 40mph. I'm not the brightest tool in the box but I'm not stupid enough to drag race a marked police car away from the lights!
Think I'll try and find a lawyer who give me half an hour of his time for free.
Try these guys. They're specialists in speeding stuff and will give an initial consultation for free I believe
www.lawsolutions.co.uk
Stichedup, When I fill in FPN's I never put my evidence on the driver copy, not that I am hiding anything, but the back of the police copy is formatted out for the evidence. If as I suspect the person who filled in the ticket was a trainee then the driver is simply instructing him (speculation of course). All I put on the driver copy re speed is the actual limit, the speed of the offender and occasionally the device used. Ask yourself the question were you speeding or not if you were then pay the fine. Stop complaining about the actions of the copper, we can get plenty of speeders fair and square without resorting to cocking up the evidence, certainly where I work anyway.
One way of getting their evidence is to plead not guilty, that way you get sent a copy of their statements, I will contain all the info re time, distance and speed. When I do my statements I also include the reference points as well.
Edited by john robson on Thursday 31st May 22:09
quote:Assuming StichedUp is telling us the truth, and given that he's asked for help here, that sort of response isn't really fair, is it? I know we all whinge about plod now and again, but it sounds like StichedUp is whinging with a reason. I think he makes a valid point given the distances involved, that he took the trouble to go back and measure, and his assertion that he didn't think he was doing more than 40 in the 30. Now, 40 on a speedo normally means less than 40 in reality, so the alleged figure of 46 does look a tad fishy, n'est pas? Edited by Marshy on Thursday 31st May 23:44
Stop complaining about the actions of the copper, we can get plenty of speeders fair and square without resorting to cocking up the evidence, certainly where I work anyway
God I'm glad I not live in the UK anymore. When you start being made a crimal because you've got to watch your speedo all the time,in case you're 7 mph over the limit is bloody ridiculas - its about driving correctly to the right conditions - not a limit set in some town hall miles from reality.
Sorry - it just p**sing me off that all.
BTW I never drive fast on public roads I save it for the track, but there's times when I've returned back to the UK driving down a quite the motorway at 80 - 85 mph and I'm breaking the law, and if there was a police man there its seems I'd get done - absolutey stupid IMO.
Haven't we lost the plot here, we all want the same thing, to be able to drive safely using our judgement gained through training, testing and experience. Its just unfortunate that the government latched on to the speeding issue thanks to the gatso's ability to earn wonga, thus distorting the whole issue. I feel, with deference to JR, that the boys in blue basically want the same as us, less accidents. Banging on about speeding while people freely drive like arses is pointless and just avoids the real issue. Pursuing a conviction against someone giving it some in the middle of nowhere safely is hardly as relevant as stopping a BMW (sorry Marshy)tailgating at 80 mph......phew thats better
quote:Couldn't agree more, I work overseas, and travel a lot too. The U.K. has got this completely wrong. Whenever I'm driving there I find that my driving is compromised as I'm constantly looking out for Plod and speed cameras, as I refuse to accept that 70 is realistic on a quiet motorway. John Robson - You are totally missing the point - The speeding laws are unrealistic - that's why people break them to such a massive extent. Your glib statements don't help - with your attitude we'd still be hanging people for stealing bread.
When you start being made a crimal because you've got to watch your speedo all the time,in case you're 7 mph over the limit is bloody ridiculas - its about driving correctly to the right conditions - not a limit set in some town hall miles from reality. Sorry - it just p**sing me off that all.
John, could I enquire as to why the person being prosecuted needs to plead not guilty in order to get the evidence against him ?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect to see the information that led to the prosecution before you made the decision on how to plead ?
A touch of guilty until proven guilty perhaps ??
Hey, I didn't want to start a fight here!
I admit that I do exceed speed limits. Only liars say they don't. If I had been caught doing over a ton I would gladly have torn up my licence myself. I appreciate a fair cop and my point is that I don't think this particular case is. I've only had one speeding conviction in my life which was 10 years ago when I was 21. I got a lecture and it sunk in. I've had a clean licence since because I don't drive like a tit. I save that for track days.
My idea of fun is not to goad marked police cars into a race; which is basically what I'm being accused of here. I respect the police and the law, however stupid it might be, but expect to be dealt with justly in return.
On this occasion I feel wronged, and with some reason. I don't want to have to plead guilty and end with a fine I can't afford and more than 3 points on my licence. But I don't see why I should roll over and pay £60 for a fund raising exercise either.
no...tend to agree. you dotn come accross as someone even remotely stupid enough to run off against a marked car....
Write to the staion, or better still go down there in person, and ask to see the evidence. They legally have to show you everything, and everyone makes mistakes...could be the case here?
Night
My guess is that plod was doing bang on 30. You pulled ahead of him, probably doing 31, and he lost face with his trainee.
Have you got a nice car? That would make it worse!
I got pulled for daring to overtake a marked car, fortunately I just got a ticking off.
JR, you have made some really useful comments on this board but I think you might have misjudged this one. Stitched Up is right, you've got to be a complete tw@t to 'race' marked cars (46 in a 30, I don't think so), so he probably was only just exceeding the limit. 31 in a 30 ain't going to stick so he gets you over the whole distance -wow, I bet that copper felt really good!
Edited by macca on Friday 1st June 22:21
I don't know the full circs, or stichedup and I can only speak from similar experiences. So it is probably unfair for me to comment too much on this particular issue. However, I have had a few occasions when I have been behind a car at lights (marked car) and they have decided to have a drag race off the line totally oblivious to my presence, only to end up giving me a load of verbal abuse when advised.
ps The bit about pleading not guilty to get the evidence is because if you go for the FPN we don't have to do a statement, to get out of the FPN procedure you would have to go 'not guilty' a summons would be generated and (in my force at least) a statement would be requested from the officer and sent with the summons, if you wish you could still then go to court and plead guilty but you would probably get a small 'costs' added to what the FPN would have been.
Stichedup, from your posts so far I must admit that you do seem a reasonable guy.
Edited by john robson on Monday 4th June 14:19
Mmm, I wonder what a traffic cop's response would be to someone executing a drag start from the lights, next to a marked police car, blasting to the 30 mph limit in zero-point-nothing seconds flat and then maintaining 30mph.
Ironically, in order to catch up, the copper would himself have to break the speed limit (in order to catch someone who had not).
Would be even better at a standing start into a 60 zone, where a Tiv could open a very large gap on Plod before Plod gets to 60.
Not that I'd ever try this of course, be far too childish...
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