RE: Gatsos generate £20 million 'stealth tax'
Discussion
m0thr4 said:
thub said:
What a load of onanistic control freaks we have in public office.
What a load of onanistic speed freaks we have on this topic. I think you people need to chill out a little. There are plently of places where you can drive your car fast. I've been driving for 16 years and never once had an endorsement despite repeatedly driving over the speed limit. I'm not sure how you all manage to get caught out - perhaps you're not concentrating hard enough or something.
Perhaps you need to stop being a hypocrit? If youve been driving for 16 years and drive repeatedly over the speed limits, what gives you the right to come here calling people "speed freaks"? You do it yourself.
If you dont like the conversation, you know what you can do, dont you?
m0thr4 said:
Fool. It's not willfull speeding or excessive speeding we're referring to. Just being a couple of mph over the limit is enough to get caught.
...which to me suggests a lack of concentration to your driving. Anyway, it's never just a couple of miles over the speed limit is it - it's normally 35mph in a 30 zone which is 16% over.
crazydave said:
What's better? Concentrating on exactly what you're doing or staring at your speedo?
Anyone who can't do both shouldn't be driving.
Yeah, I forgot about the amount of times you'd been a passenger in my car. You must have noticed the lack of concentration in my driving a lot.
You're a qualified driving instructor are you? The point is that it's more important to concentrate on other things apart from the speedo. I think this is why so many people get caught out. You can't possibly believe that all the millions of people that get caught speeding are doing it on purpose.
By the way - I've never been caught speeding either. Guess I never learnt how to read the instruments on my car and got lucky huh?
crazydave said:
How about the dual carriageways that have poor signs yet the limit has been reduced to 40 where the previous day it was national limit and a scamera is hidden behind a sign? Are you going to dawdle along at 25mph everywhere you go?
I've never seen this, so I can't comment. If I'm driving along a road I don't know, I make an extra effort to seek out the speed limit signs.
crazydave said:I don't need to have been a passenger in your car to 'notice' your lack of concentration - your argumnent implies it.
Yeah, I forgot about the amount of times you'd been a passenger in my car. You must have noticed the lack of concentration in my driving a lot.
crazydave said:No.
You're a qualified driving instructor are you?
crazydave said:I agree, but if you remember back to your driving lessons, you're normally taught to check your speedo and your mirrors regularly.
The point is that it's more important to concentrate on other things apart from the speedo.
crazydave said:
I think this is why so many people get caught out. You can't possibly believe that all the millions of people that get caught speeding are doing it on purpose.
Absolutely not; I don't think any sane person would say that - but carelessness is recklessness in a motor vehicle and there's no excuse for it. And I'm the first to admit I drive recklessly from time to time. Just this morning in fact.
crazydave said:Like me, you've obviously been lucky up til now. If I ever get caught, I will hold my hands up and admit that it's a fair cop.
By the way - I've never been caught speeding either. Guess I never learnt how to read the instruments on my car and got lucky huh?
It should not normally be necessary to look for and follow the speed limits religously, as an advanced driver it will be clear to you what speed is appropriate for the conditions. The speed limit signs are a useful reminder that the environment is changing, but you shouldn't rely on a number on a sign to tell you what speed to drive at. If the sign falls over, do you drive through town at sixty?
In a strange environment you *should* be making an extra effort to look out for hazards and driving accordingly. Concentrating on speed limits first and foremost is a mistake imo.
In a strange environment you *should* be making an extra effort to look out for hazards and driving accordingly. Concentrating on speed limits first and foremost is a mistake imo.
Everyone whinges about speed cameras so I think I'll buck the trend - Get over it. So many arguments such as 'what about roads your unfamiliar with - surely motorists will be caught out then' and some such nonsense. What happened to being an aware motorist? If you aren't able to see the sign, you aren't paying enough attention. I'll further that by saying if your an advocate of such an argument, you're probably going to hit something one day. So therefore (and I'm being tight, I'll accept that) its your own damn fault and you deserve to get booked. Rah rah rah rah! And if there is no real signage, contest the fine and invlove your local council and whinge to them. And seriously, revenue raising can only be a good thing for the economy. Again, rah rah rah rah.
Regards, Ali.
Regards, Ali.
m0thr4 said:
I don't need to have been a passenger in your car to 'notice' your lack of concentration - your argumnent implies it.
m0thr4 said:
What a load of onanistic speed freaks we have on this topic. I think you people need to chill out a little. There are plently of places where you can drive your car fast. I've been driving for 16 years and never once had an endorsement despite repeatedly driving over the speed limit. I'm not sure how you all manage to get caught out - perhaps you're not concentrating hard enough or something
I think you were implying that everyone who speeds doesn't concentrate hard enough. Your arguement implies you also don't concentrate hard enough.
m0thr4 said:
I agree, but if you remember back to your driving lessons, you're normally taught to check your speedo and your mirrors regularly.
Checking regularly is fine, checking constantly isn't.
m0thr4 said:
Absolutely not; I don't think any sane person would say that - but carelessness is recklessness in a motor vehicle and there's no excuse for it. And I'm the first to admit I drive recklessly from time to time. Just this morning in fact.
Carelessness is reckless, true. However everything is relative. I wouldn't label someone doing 35 in a 30 as reckless (unless they're doing something ridiculous like driving on the wrong side of the road).
crazydave said:
By the way - I've never been caught speeding either. Guess I never learnt how to read the instruments on my car and got lucky huh?
m0thr4 said:
Like me, you've obviously been lucky up til now. If I ever get caught, I will hold my hands up and admit that it's a fair cop.
Not just luck. Judgement also has a lot to do with it. I don't speed through built up areas where there are likely to be pedestrians and cars exiting side roads. I do admit to speeding in national limits but only if the conditions prevail.
This isn't just about me and my driving, it was originally intended to highlight how people can easily get caught.
FestivAli said:
If you aren't able to see the sign, you aren't paying enough attention. I'll further that by saying if your an advocate of such an argument, you're probably going to hit something one day. So therefore (and I'm being tight, I'll accept that) its your own damn fault and you deserve to get booked. Rah rah rah rah! And if there is no real signage, contest the fine and invlove your local council and whinge to them. And seriously, revenue raising can only be a good thing for the economy. Again, rah rah rah rah.
Regards, Ali.
Fair point well made. However i've driven through towns where signs have been covered by overgrown bushes and such like. Towns I'm not local to. If you drive x hundred of miles a week to various different places what are the chances you'll be able to make some sort of comeback? Just pay the fine I guess.
I do think the point here is not the use of speed limits but the use of speed traps. The majority (I do believe) of these scameras have nothing to do with safety but are there to raise vast sums of money. Motorists are not stupid and are getting pretty fed up with this very sneaky practice of trapping people just to raise revenue. We really need to see more police patrols on our roads metering punishment to cut out crime not these 'Big Brother' tactics of letting the really guilty criminal get away with real crime and just targeting the soft option. Scameras do not catch drivers without tax or insurance in unsafe vehicles. Bloody yellow vermin on poles they are.
crazydave said:Spot on CD. Thats exactly the way I drive as well.
Not just luck. Judgement also has a lot to do with it. I don't speed through built up areas where there are likely to be pedestrians and cars exiting side roads. I do admit to speeding in national limits but only if the conditions prevail.
blademan said:
Not just luck. Judgement also has a lot to do with it. I don't speed through built up areas where there are likely to be pedestrians and cars exiting side roads. I do admit to speeding in national limits but only if the conditions prevail.
Spot on CD. Thats exactly the way I drive as well.
yep..like I said before..stick to the 30s, 40s and 50s...even if dual carraigeways...
Leave blatting for the NSL...conditions, vehicle, experience considered
Streetcop said:
crazydave said:
Not just luck. Judgement also has a lot to do with it. I don't speed through built up areas where there are likely to be pedestrians and cars exiting side roads. I do admit to speeding in national limits but only if the conditions prevail.
Spot on CD. Thats exactly the way I drive as well.
yep..like I said before..stick to the 30s, 40s and 50s...even if dual carraigeways...
Leave blatting for the NSL...conditions, vehicle, experience considered
20 odd years of a clean licence is a testament to that principle IMHO. Beleive me if I was ever caught on some of my NSL blats I think me and my licence might be seperated for a good few years
. Harry
Back on topic, I can't help wondering if the loss of good will towards the police was quantified in money terms, as everything can be (for those who do the odd risk assement). Then these cameras would be removed overnight.
Perhaps that is a tact which should be pursued by the anti-campaign.
Bottom line in politics/business/life is money, express it in those terms and you win the arguement IMHE.
Harry
Perhaps that is a tact which should be pursued by the anti-campaign.
Bottom line in politics/business/life is money
, express it in those terms and you win the arguement IMHE. Harry
HarryW said:
Back on topic, I can't help wondering if the loss of good will towards the police was quantified in money terms, as everything can be (for those who do the odd risk assement). Then these cameras would be removed overnight.
Perhaps that is a tact which should be pursued by the anti-campaign.
Bottom line in politics/business/life is money
Harry
Government isn't interested in loss of good will towards the police..
... The do as we say....attitude will prevail for the Government of today..
Time for a change.
.....Streetcop said:
Back on topic, I can't help wondering if the loss of good will towards the police was quantified in money terms, as everything can be (for those who do the odd risk assement). Then these cameras would be removed overnight.
Perhaps that is a tact which should be pursued by the anti-campaign.
Bottom line in politics/business/life is money
Harry
Government isn't interested in loss of good will towards the police..
The do as we say....attitude will prevail for the Government of today..
Time for a change.
Agree that this govenrment are not interested, they are only interested in their own self importance and trousering as much as they can on the way out of the door iMHO.
However I still maintain that a creditable breakdown/report on the loss of co-operation/good will etc can be made. This can then reflected as a % efficiency reduction in the police as a whole. This can then be quantified in money terms as a % of police operating cost required to uplift the service to fill the gap made.
I surprised the Police Federation haven't got this sort of info and aren't banging on the CC's door. If all police foprces did this then ACPO would be bangi9ng on the home secretaries door,who willbang on teh Chancellors door for the moneuy tomake up the short fall. Quick as a flash scameras gone. Worse case extra money for the police and more cameras for us to make up the chacellors shortfall
. Harry
Thing is the cameras bring in £200 million. That's peanuts to a goverment who waste many times that.
The real issue about the anti-speed campaign is to make so much noise the public think the goverment is doing something about road safety. Only the appearance of doing something matters, not the fact that people are needlessly dieing.
The real issue about the anti-speed campaign is to make so much noise the public think the goverment is doing something about road safety. Only the appearance of doing something matters, not the fact that people are needlessly dieing.
The government just cant suddenly admit to fleecing the public and say 'ok we'll get rid of them'(scameras). If they keep getting this bad press thay will have to think again about installing more new ones and think of reasons why existing ones should be removed/reduced. I am sure all this bad press is a very good thing for the motorists. There could be a few surprises at election time and a re-think by the government may be forced on them, allbeit slowly. We can live in hope.
m0thr4 said:
Fool. It's not willfull speeding or excessive speeding we're referring to. Just being a couple of mph over the limit is enough to get caught.
...which to me suggests a lack of concentration to your driving. Anyway, it's never just a couple of miles over the speed limit is it - it's normally 35mph in a 30 zone which is 16% over.
crazydave said:
What's better? Concentrating on exactly what you're doing or staring at your speedo?
Anyone who can't do both shouldn't be driving.
Perhaps you should check the facts.
The RAC has released the results of a study which shows the type of driver most likely to be caught for driving above set limits: it's the most safe driver (i.e. with the least accidents). Those who are least caught (the young and the elderly) are the most accident-prone.
Now that may go against what you "feel" should be the truth, but if you were to apply your mind to what may be happening, i.e. the safest driver is not looking at their speedo so much as a means to judge "safe driving" but is driving at a speed appropriate to all of the conditions at the time, you may be able to see things in a way such that your opinions are formed after consideration of the facts.
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