Abandoned car on private property.
Discussion
doogz said:
I agree.
"The vehicle sat there for 5 weeks you say. Then what happened to it"
"Oh, we sold it for scrap for £40."
"The vehicle sat there for 5 weeks you say. Then what happened to it"
"Oh, we sold it for scrap for £40."
Freddy88FM said:
Hi all,
My mum is a landlord with several properties and a car park in our local town. The car park spaces are rented by tenants of the property and used by the residents.
Recently a car (I am not sure what kind but know it was on a 'p' reg) turned up in a rented space and was complained about by the resident who rented that space. My mum left a note on the car asking that it be moved. Nothing happened.
Two weeks later she called the police. They told her they can't provide ownership details but that she can remove it from her property.
Another note and a warning were written and put on the car saying it would soon be towed if not moved. Two weeks later my mum arranged for a local scrap firm to come and take the car for £40. The car was sitting there for five weeks in total and finally towed with a flat tire.
The day after the car was towed the owner calls my mum ranting and raving about her having towed his 'concourse car'. It was bizarre given he'd five weeks to get in touch that he contacts her the day after its towed.
My mum is feeling guilty (God knows why) and wants to make sure she followed the correct procedure. The police told her to tow it but she is worried that her interpretation of this as 'get rid of it'' by selling it to a scrap firm could be problematic.
Anyone have any idea where we stand? Thanks a lot.
Freddy
The bold part above reads to me that she paid the scrap firm £40 to remove it , after the police telling her she could do so . The vehicle was only stored , not scrapped , and the defendant was given the chance to reclaim it .My mum is a landlord with several properties and a car park in our local town. The car park spaces are rented by tenants of the property and used by the residents.
Recently a car (I am not sure what kind but know it was on a 'p' reg) turned up in a rented space and was complained about by the resident who rented that space. My mum left a note on the car asking that it be moved. Nothing happened.
Two weeks later she called the police. They told her they can't provide ownership details but that she can remove it from her property.
Another note and a warning were written and put on the car saying it would soon be towed if not moved. Two weeks later my mum arranged for a local scrap firm to come and take the car for £40. The car was sitting there for five weeks in total and finally towed with a flat tire.
The day after the car was towed the owner calls my mum ranting and raving about her having towed his 'concourse car'. It was bizarre given he'd five weeks to get in touch that he contacts her the day after its towed.
My mum is feeling guilty (God knows why) and wants to make sure she followed the correct procedure. The police told her to tow it but she is worried that her interpretation of this as 'get rid of it'' by selling it to a scrap firm could be problematic.
Anyone have any idea where we stand? Thanks a lot.
Freddy
I do so love it when Pontoneer offers his wisdom on legal topics! Presumably the bloke who owns the abandoned car also owns the OP's mum's building, because, after all, the bloke's car was parked next to the house for weeks and therefore - according to Pontoneer logic -the building became part of the car. Or is it that the bloke just owns the car park? Or is it that the OP's mum owns the car? I forget. I should have stayed awake during all those lectures at the Made It All Up On The Internet School of Law at the University of Tinfoil, doh! Anyway, over to Pontoneer, legal adviser to the prematurely bewildered.
Breadvan72 said:
I do so love it when Pontoneer offers his wisdom on legal topics! Presumably the bloke who owns the abandoned car also owns the OP's mum's building, because, after all, the bloke's car was parked next to the house for weeks and therefore - according to Pontoneer logic -the building became part of the car. Or is it that the bloke just owns the car park? Or is it that the OP's mum owns the car? I forget. I should have stayed awake during all those lectures at the Made It All Up On The Internet School of Law at the University of Tinfoil, doh! Anyway, over to Pontoneer, legal adviser to the prematurely bewildered.
Not quite 
Smaller item will always become part of the larger item to which it is attached ( so that a wing mirror , roof rack , tow bar or wheel clamp becomes part of the car to which it is affixed ) to me that is only logical .
Similarly , if a car is left without permission on private property , then after due process the car becomes the property of the property owner to do with as they please .
Simple really .
Pontoneer said:
Not quite
Smaller item will always become part of the larger item to which it is attached ( so that a wing mirror , roof rack , tow bar or wheel clamp becomes part of the car to which it is affixed ) to me that is only logical .
Similarly , if a car is left without permission on private property , then after due process the car becomes the property of the property owner to do with as they please .
Simple really .
I'm a bit on the porky side - how long do I need to hang on to you before I own you?Smaller item will always become part of the larger item to which it is attached ( so that a wing mirror , roof rack , tow bar or wheel clamp becomes part of the car to which it is affixed ) to me that is only logical .
Similarly , if a car is left without permission on private property , then after due process the car becomes the property of the property owner to do with as they please .
Simple really .
Pontoneer said:
Not quite
Smaller item will always become part of the larger item to which it is attached ( so that a wing mirror , roof rack , tow bar or wheel clamp becomes part of the car to which it is affixed ) to me that is only logical .
Similarly , if a car is left without permission on private property , then after due process the car becomes the property of the property owner to do with as they please .
Simple really .
What Law are you referring to which holds that property in contact with other property ends up (when? what is the "due process"? Must either/both entities be stationary? Does the attachment need to be a permanent fixture?) owned by whomever owns the larger entity?Smaller item will always become part of the larger item to which it is attached ( so that a wing mirror , roof rack , tow bar or wheel clamp becomes part of the car to which it is affixed ) to me that is only logical .
Similarly , if a car is left without permission on private property , then after due process the car becomes the property of the property owner to do with as they please .
Simple really .
It sounds like a very dangerous Law to me, wide open to abuse?
Pontoneer said:
Breadvan72 said:
I do so love it when Pontoneer offers his wisdom on legal topics! Presumably the bloke who owns the abandoned car also owns the OP's mum's building, because, after all, the bloke's car was parked next to the house for weeks and therefore - according to Pontoneer logic -the building became part of the car. Or is it that the bloke just owns the car park? Or is it that the OP's mum owns the car? I forget. I should have stayed awake during all those lectures at the Made It All Up On The Internet School of Law at the University of Tinfoil, doh! Anyway, over to Pontoneer, legal adviser to the prematurely bewildered.
Not quite Smaller item will always become part of the larger item to which it is attached ( so that a wing mirror , roof rack , tow bar or wheel clamp becomes part of the car to which it is affixed ) to me that is only logical .
Similarly , if a car is left without permission on private property , then after due process the car becomes the property of the property owner to do with as they please .
Simple really .
Pontoneer said:
Not quite
Smaller item will always become part of the larger item to which it is attached ( so that a wing mirror , roof rack , tow bar or wheel clamp becomes part of the car to which it is affixed ) to me that is only logical .
Similarly , if a car is left without permission on private property , then after due process the car becomes the property of the property owner to do with as they please .
Simple really .
Oustanding! So I am going to chain my big car to your small one. Then it's mine. Thanks for the car.Smaller item will always become part of the larger item to which it is attached ( so that a wing mirror , roof rack , tow bar or wheel clamp becomes part of the car to which it is affixed ) to me that is only logical .
Similarly , if a car is left without permission on private property , then after due process the car becomes the property of the property owner to do with as they please .
Simple really .
Breadvan72 said:
I do so love it when Pontoneer offers his wisdom on legal topics! Presumably the bloke who owns the abandoned car also owns the OP's mum's building, because, after all, the bloke's car was parked next to the house for weeks and therefore - according to Pontoneer logic -the building became part of the car. Or is it that the bloke just owns the car park? Or is it that the OP's mum owns the car? I forget. I should have stayed awake during all those lectures at the Made It All Up On The Internet School of Law at the University of Tinfoil, doh! Anyway, over to Pontoneer, legal adviser to the prematurely bewildered.
I have a question.Someone decides to store a sofa in your front garden. They don't ask, you don't know who has done it and they don't respond when you leave notes on it. Can you get rid of it/move it or are you now an involuntary bailee of the sofa and as such cannot move it?
In those circumstances it would be a reasonable inference that the sofa has not been left for storage but has been abandoned as garbage. A car can be stored by being parked in the open air. No one who does not live in a trailer park or in Darlington stores a sofa in a garden. There are various rules that I CBA to look up about fly tipping and so on.
If I drop my Maccy Dee wrapper in your garden, you are not the involuntary bailee of the wrapper. If I park my car on your drive, you may be the involuntary bailee of the car. The law is quite often a practical thing, and is very big on context and circumstance.
If I drop my Maccy Dee wrapper in your garden, you are not the involuntary bailee of the wrapper. If I park my car on your drive, you may be the involuntary bailee of the car. The law is quite often a practical thing, and is very big on context and circumstance.
I am all for the law being upheld and won't comment on the legalities of this incident as there are people, BV, who know the law far better than I.
What I will say is that I am shocked at how many people are defending this muppets actions! What gives him the right to dump his car on someone else's property and think that is ok? Why does he think he can get some thing for free? Where has the personal responsibility gone in this world?
What I will say is that I am shocked at how many people are defending this muppets actions! What gives him the right to dump his car on someone else's property and think that is ok? Why does he think he can get some thing for free? Where has the personal responsibility gone in this world?
Devil2575 said:
I have a question.
Someone decides to store a sofa in your front garden. They don't ask, you don't know who has done it and they don't respond when you leave notes on it. Can you get rid of it/move it or are you now an involuntary bailee of the sofa and as such cannot move it?
Sofas do not have an identifying mark on them issued by the government, which may be correlated against a database to establish the rightful owner.Someone decides to store a sofa in your front garden. They don't ask, you don't know who has done it and they don't respond when you leave notes on it. Can you get rid of it/move it or are you now an involuntary bailee of the sofa and as such cannot move it?
Though continuing with this line of thinking, according to the Citizens Advice bods, "The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 say you have a right to keep goods delivered to you that you didn’t ask for. These are known as unsolicited goods... If you receive goods you have not ordered and which haven’t been sent by mistake, you can treat the goods as an unconditional gift and you can do what you want with them."
Sounds fine to me!
Breadvan72 said:
In those circumstances it would be a reasonable inference that the sofa has not been left for storage but has been abandoned as garbage. A car can be stored by being parked in the open air. No one who does not live in a trailer park or in Darlington stores a sofa in a garden. There are various rules that I CBA to look up about fly tipping and so on.
If I drop my Maccy Dee wrapper in your garden, you are not the involuntary bailee of the wrapper. If I park my car on your drive, you may be the involuntary bailee of the car. The law is quite often a practical thing, and is very big on context and circumstance.
OK, so lets say I park my car on your drive, effectively blocking it and preventing you from using it. You are unable to obtain my details and I have not made myself known to you or responded to any attempts you have made to contact them.If I drop my Maccy Dee wrapper in your garden, you are not the involuntary bailee of the wrapper. If I park my car on your drive, you may be the involuntary bailee of the car. The law is quite often a practical thing, and is very big on context and circumstance.
Can you move the car?
I'm not sure that in this case I think the law is practical. In the case of the OP, the tennant has effectively been denied the use of a parking space that they have paid for. Reasonable attempts were made to contact the owner before eventually having it removed some weeks later. If the law was practical it would have either enabled the land owner to get the details of the car's registered keeper or allowed them to have it removed.
Devil2575 said:
InitialDave said:
Sofas do not have an identifying mark on them issued by the government, which may be correlated against a database to establish the rightful owner.
You can establish the registered keeper, not the owner. However not everyone can do this which is the problem.herewego said:
Devil2575 said:
InitialDave said:
Sofas do not have an identifying mark on them issued by the government, which may be correlated against a database to establish the rightful owner.
You can establish the registered keeper, not the owner. However not everyone can do this which is the problem.[quote=NJPWhat I will say is that I am shocked at how many people are defending this muppets actions! What gives him the right to dump his car on someone else's property and think that is ok? Why does he think he can get some thing for free? Where has the personal responsibility gone in this world?
[/quote]
This is what bugs me the most. The guy is clearly a complete and utter t
t, he should be crushed along with his car.
[/quote]
This is what bugs me the most. The guy is clearly a complete and utter t
t, he should be crushed along with his car. I did think of another question, seeing as a few people brought up the idea of moving the car to double yellows or what have you and letting nature take its course.
You're allowed to move a car in this situation, but if you move it onto a road, and it's not taxed/insured/MOTed, have you committed an offence? Leaving aside how the car got there in the first place, while it's on private land, it's fine, so if you're the one to move it off private land, are you responsible for checking this stuff?
If it's the RK's neck for that one, is "Well, I did keep it off the road, this other bugger put it back on it" a defence?
You're allowed to move a car in this situation, but if you move it onto a road, and it's not taxed/insured/MOTed, have you committed an offence? Leaving aside how the car got there in the first place, while it's on private land, it's fine, so if you're the one to move it off private land, are you responsible for checking this stuff?
If it's the RK's neck for that one, is "Well, I did keep it off the road, this other bugger put it back on it" a defence?
B
Devil2575 said:
I have a question.
Someone decides to store a sofa in your front garden. They don't ask, you don't know who has done it and they don't respond when you leave notes on it. Can you get rid of it/move it or are you now an involuntary bailee of the sofa and as such cannot move it?
YesSomeone decides to store a sofa in your front garden. They don't ask, you don't know who has done it and they don't respond when you leave notes on it. Can you get rid of it/move it or are you now an involuntary bailee of the sofa and as such cannot move it?
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