Track-day Crash - Advice before speaking to Solicitor...

[DeadEye]

Hi All

Is anyone on here clued up with regards to track days and the waivers you all sign?

Does the waiver only indemnify the organisers or does it actually include the other drivers?

If one thought a driver acted recklessly and/or with negligence and crashed into someone, would the waiver cover him?

How about if a driver deliberately breaks the rules of a track-day and crashes into someone as a result?

Any advice appreciated.

[R8Steve]

This should be interesting...

[anonymous-user]

How it works is pretty simple - you insure yourself when on track and claim on that if something happens.

If you were involved in an incident without being insured you take the loss.

That's it, the end.

[motco]

Part of the MSE briefing is that whatever happens you cannot hold anyone else responsible. If you disagree, go home now. Lots of witnesses...

[oldnbold]

I seem to remember a case where somebody had caused a crash by completely stupid behaviour. This went to court and although wavers etc had been signed, the judge ruled that everyone still has a duty of care to others taking part in the day to behave responsibly. He found in the claimants favour for damage caused to his car.

I'm also aware os simular on a bike trackday that ended up in small claims court and was again won by the claimant.

[Actus Reus]

motco said:

Part of the MSE briefing is that whatever happens you cannot hold anyone else responsible. If you disagree, go home now. Lots of witnesses...

Once had this discussion elsewhere and that was the gist - though I was always under the impression (my own view, no more) that negligence on the part of another driver might well shift those goalposts - how can you NEVER hold somebody else responsible even if they're driving like an absolute cock (and for argument's sake in a car that isn't fit for the road let alone the track). Given that people track cars worth six figures I can't imagine an owner would just swallow having his 100k P&J written off, or am I being naive?

[WinstonWolf]

DeadEye said:

Hi All

Is anyone on here clued up with regards to track days and the waivers you all sign?

Does the waiver only indemnify the organisers or does it actually include the other drivers?

If one thought a driver acted recklessly and/or with negligence and crashed into someone, would the waiver cover him?

How about if a driver deliberately breaks the rules of a track-day and crashes into someone as a result?

Any advice appreciated.

Just in case...

[carreauchompeur]

I tend to agree with the comments above- in general there is an outlined understanding that what happens is part and parcel of a trackday, however IMHO gross negligence by another still trumps this and could still result in successful civil claims in the case of same.

[PanzerCommander]

As far as I am aware be it track days/RWYB or actually competing in a motorsport event unless you take out specific insurance (or have an extension on your road policy) for that event and the worst happens its tough you took the risk you take the loss.

[carreauchompeur]

Out of interest, what were the vague circumstances and what negligence was involved on the part of the other car?

[DeadEye]

carreauchompeur said:

Out of interest, what were the vague circumstances and what negligence was involved on the part of the other car?

Not adhering to the overtaking rules on a wet track-day, late diving up the inside on other drivers, did it once too many.

[MrBarry123]

carreauchompeur said:

I tend to agree with the comments above- in general there is an outlined understanding that what happens is part and parcel of a trackday, however IMHO gross negligence by another still trumps this and could still result in successful civil claims in the case of same.

Yes, this would seem sensible as it avoids people acting like complete fking idiots on track.

[oldnbold]

This is the case I was thinking off. Claimant awarded £21k in damages.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=1&a...

Forty odd pages so fill your boots.

[vxr8mate]

I'm some total loon caused a crash that resulted in sever injury to another driver then prosecution would likely follow, so why would we assume it be different for damage to another vehicle. Just because it's on private land it doesn't mean people can do as they wish.

[tuffer]

And this is the precise reason I do not bother with track days.

[BertBert]

I think to answer the OP's question, I think you need the actual wording of the document signed. Not done one for a couple of years but in all my years of doing them, there have been quite a few variations.

But by and large, it's an agreement between you and the track day organiser, but in any case it would struggle to protect a person causing damage through negligence to another attendee.

So there is a court precedent showing it can be done. Go for it.

Bert

[deckster]

PanzerCommander said:

As far as I am aware be it track days/RWYB or actually competing in a motorsport event unless you take out specific insurance (or have an extension on your road policy) for that event and the worst happens its tough you took the risk you take the loss.

I am far from a lawyer, but as a matter of principle:

- insurance and liability are entirely separate. Whether or not you are insured does not make any difference to whether or not you a liable for a particular event.
- just because you've signed something or sat through an induction, doesn't mean that the contents of what you've signed are legally enforceable.

I would suggest that all the paperwork in the world will not take away your responsibility to act in a safe and reasonable manner, although it may well move the boundaries of what constitutes 'safe' and 'reasonable'. Particularly for a track day, proving where those boundaries are and that somebody has gone over them may well be difficult but that doesn't mean that the boundaries don't exist.

[anonymous-user]

I have never been involved in anything like this but if there was persistent infringement then maybe the track day organisers have questions to answer.

Every track day I have been on has been pretty strict on anything like that with red cards dished out.

Depends on how much the damage is - if the other party gives it the full denial then I can see it being expensive to get a resolution.

[Rovinghawk]

carreauchompeur said:

I tend to agree with the comments above- in general there is an outlined understanding that what happens is part and parcel of a trackday, however IMHO gross negligence by another still trumps this and could still result in successful civil claims in the case of same.

I'll support this and add 'recklessness' to 'gross negligence'.

[ferrariF50lover]

tuffer said:

And this is the precise reason I do not bother with track days.

What an horrendously sad way to live life.