Potential issue with car trader/dealer - advice welcomed

[Andyjc86]

rallycross said:

Andyjc86 said:

Having dealt with a lot of warranty companies, at no point will they ask of a mate had touched it!

The way they work is:
• You report a problem
• They acknowledge the problem, and arrange for it to be looked at if it doesn't fall under the large list of exclusions.
• You take it where they tell you too (usually a national chain, unless you request otherwise), they diagnose the fault (chargeable), and try to get approval from the warranty company for the repair.

Correct, anyway the warranty thing is a red herring in this case, no warranty company is going to cover some dodgy trader for selling cars with worn/duff engines.

This is all about getting the trader to sort it out, he is liable and cant hide behind a 3rd party warranty (that would 100% reject any claim for this sort of problem).

Yep, it's all on the dealer. Personally I would be pushing to reject the car under the new SOG rules.

[northwest monkey]

Cheers for all your advice chaps. Although I've had the car just over 30 days (picked up the car on the 19th March), I did report the fault to him less than a week after buying it.

My 2 main issues are (a) there is no way he didn't know it had a fault when he sold it, and (b) I haven't seen sight of any warranty whatsoever (he's repeatedly ignored my request for the warranty company details) & this was one of the reasons I bought from a trader rather than private.

He trades from home so doesn't particularly have a reputation to protect (as opposed to someone with premises), so I'm guessing I have no option but to open a 6-pack of legal whoopass on him. Being honest, I'm not expecting much joy, but if I can cause someone a lot of earache & hassle then I will.

I'd be happy with the car being repaired - I'm not just looking to take the car back. Other than the engine issue, I love the car so I'm definitely not suffering from a case of buyers remorse (other than it being slightly fked).

Any suggestions or links as to the next step?

[Roo]

On the advert for the car, or any other cars he's advertising, or his website does it mention the warranty company?

[northwest monkey]

On the advert for mine, it says "Supplied with full 12 months Gold warranty".

If I google "gold warranty" it comes up with a company called Auto Protect & "gold" is one of their cover levels.

Other than Auto Trader, he doesn't have a website.

[Blue Oval84]

I'm not sure how much clearer it can be made, you serve him with written notice that you're going to take legal action if he doesn't get it sorted. Then, when he fails to sort it, you go and give some money to these guys and sue him-

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Be prepared for a fight, you're going to need to prepare an evidence bundle and prove your case in court. If you win, then also understand that all he has to do is say "I've wound the business up" (oddly, just as he starts another ltd company) and watch your money disappear.

I'm going to link this thread the next time some total arse tells someone that they're better off buying from a trader because they're covered under the Consumer Rights Act.

[anonymous-user]

Blue Oval84 said:

(oddly, just as he starts another ltd company) and watch your money disappear.

The directors cannot deliberately take any actions that would cause the company's debts to increase or go unpaid. So even if he winds up can still sue him, else scammers would just set up ltd companies and go bust, devolved of debt responsibility.

[northwest monkey]

The Spruce goose said:

Blue Oval84 said:

(oddly, just as he starts another ltd company) and watch your money disappear.

The directors cannot deliberately take any actions that would cause the company's debts to increase or go unpaid. So even if he winds up can still sue him, else scammers would just set up ltd companies and go bust, devolved of debt responsibility.

That's very interesting - I didn't know that. Might be worth paying for a rebuild & then going after him if that's the case.

Cheers

[hornetrider]

northwest monkey said:

That's very interesting - I didn't know that. Might be worth paying for a rebuild & then going after him if that's the case.

Cheers

Steady on. You have to give him the opportunity to repair. Get stuff in writing.

[northwest monkey]

hornetrider said:

northwest monkey said:

That's very interesting - I didn't know that. Might be worth paying for a rebuild & then going after him if that's the case.

Cheers

Steady on. You have to give him the opportunity to repair. Get stuff in writing.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not booking anything in!

I'm going to do the notice letter & then the small claims if that doesn't work to try & get the car sorted (or returned) but it's good to know there are options.

[northwest monkey]

Andyjc86 said:

Yep, it's all on the dealer. Personally I would be pushing to reject the car under the new SOG rules.

Is there a specific thing (e.g. the Sale of Goods Act 2013 or whatever) I can refer to in a letter?

I'm doing a "letter before action" today and am going to refer to the fact that (a) I haven't received any warranty information despite the car being advertised as "12 months warranty included", (b) the car was sold with an existing fault, (c) the dealer suggested I took it to a local garage for them to look at.

I'm going to offer 2 solutions:-

(a) Pay for a engine rebuild / get it rebuilt at an independent garage (estimated cost £2500)

or

(b) Buy the car back for the £7700 I paid for it.

I'm going to address the letter to his partner as she is the director of the company & effectively he is an employee. Also, she might be less thrilled about the prospects of going to court.

Is there anything I've missed / anything I should or shouldn't say?

[POORCARDEALER]

The Spruce goose said:

Blue Oval84 said:

(oddly, just as he starts another ltd company) and watch your money disappear.

The directors cannot deliberately take any actions that would cause the company's debts to increase or go unpaid. So even if he winds up can still sue him, else scammers would just set up ltd companies and go bust, devolved of debt responsibility.

Try and enforce that, powers that be generally very uniterested.



OP...If you do end up going legal be prepared to park the car up, not use it and be prepared for a long fight...I took some clampers to court and its taken 15 months start to finish

[AmitG]

Really hope you get this sorted OP, please do keep the thread updated.

I suspect the third party warranty either doesn't exist (most likely), or it won't pay out for the first couple of months, to avoid the obvious ruse of traders selling dodgy cars and then getting the warranty company to sort them out post sale.

When asking for a refund - should you ask for a refund of the full amount minus a small amount for the use you have had of the car? Say £7600? If you make a well thought through offer, and make it clear what your next step will be should he not accept, he might be more likely to accept in order to be done with it. Losing £100 sucks but might be worth it in order to close the episode.

[Old Merc]

POORCARDEALER said:

OP...If you do end up going legal be prepared to park the car up, not use it and be prepared for a long fight...I took some clampers to court and its taken 15 months start to finish

And keep us regularly updated.Do not give up,screw the b!!!! ,you have over £7K stuck in the driveway getting wet.
Good luck mate.

[elanfan]

northwest monkey said:

Andyjc86 said:

Yep, it's all on the dealer. Personally I would be pushing to reject the car under the new SOG rules.

Is there a specific thing (e.g. the Sale of Goods Act 2013 or whatever) I can refer to in a letter?

I'm doing a "letter before action" today and am going to refer to the fact that (a) I haven't received any warranty information despite the car being advertised as "12 months warranty included", (b) the car was sold with an existing fault, (c) the dealer suggested I took it to a local garage for them to look at.

I'm going to offer 2 solutions:-

(a) Pay for a engine rebuild / get it rebuilt at an independent garage (estimated cost £2500)

or

(b) Buy the car back for the £7700 I paid for it.

I'm going to address the letter to his partner as she is the director of the company & effectively he is an employee. Also, she might be less thrilled about the prospects of going to court.

Is there anything I've missed / anything I should or shouldn't say?

Don't think you are entitled yo £7700 back you need to reduce by say £250 for the use you've had.

Letter should refer to Consumer Rights Act I think and should assert that that the fault was there all along and that the only delays have been in diagnosis of the faults and his lack of cooperation over the warranty.

I'd also write a seperate timeline sheet detailing everything that has happened with the car, the conversations and texts you've had between you, conversations with the specialists etc etc and you can refer to the time line document without cluttering up your letter holding them responsible (which will later be relied on in court). Give him/her a clear and short deadline to instigate an acceptable solution. It might help to say you will also be reporting them to Trading Standards if this is not sorted to your satisfaction.

[4rephill]

northwest monkey said:

The Spruce goose said:

Blue Oval84 said:

(oddly, just as he starts another ltd company) and watch your money disappear.

The directors cannot deliberately take any actions that would cause the company's debts to increase or go unpaid. So even if he winds up can still sue him, else scammers would just set up ltd companies and go bust, devolved of debt responsibility.

That's very interesting - I didn't know that. Might be worth paying for a rebuild & then going after him if that's the case.

Cheers

Just as a reminder:

northwest monkey said:

Ok, an update...

He's trading as a Ltd Company but it's his partner (not married) who is down as the director of the company........

If you're taking the company to court then you should be dealing with his partner rather than the than the guy who sold you the car as technically he's just "working for the company" and doesn't own it.

Based on the above, I suspect that unless it can be shown that the company is his, then he can start up his own Ltd company and claim it has nothing at all to do with "her" company, whilst trading from the same address.

This is why these people operate this way, it adds to the confusion of the situation, creates more legal headaches, and provides a back door way out should the business go tits up.

It's not just at this level that devious people operate this way, Bernie Ecclestone does the exact same thing with his F1 companies - The majority of his various companies were actually in the name of his wife and children, and technically, he was just an advisor to those companies (which in reality he ran on a daily basis).

northwest monkey: You're in for a long hard fight on this one, but should stick with it! - Saying that though, don't be too surprised if the slippery little bd finds a way to get away without having to pay anything.

It would be worth looking into the history of this couple to see if they have a history of starting up Ltd companies that then fold a short time later, only to be replaced by another company they own.

Good luck with it, and as suggested, get a proper legal team on the case to fight this for you!

[northwest monkey]

4rephill said:

If you're taking the company to court then you should be dealing with his partner rather than the than the guy who sold you the car as technically he's just "working for the company" and doesn't own it.

Yep - we're going after his missus as it's "her" company & not his (as per Companies House).

[northwest monkey]

Old Merc said:

And keep us regularly updated.Do not give up,screw the b!!!! ,you have over £7K stuck in the driveway getting wet.
Good luck mate.

No worries - I can't stand the "hit and run" threads that never get closed either.

[Roo]

northwest monkey said:

On the advert for mine, it says "Supplied with full 12 months Gold warranty".

If I google "gold warranty" it comes up with a company called Auto Protect & "gold" is one of their cover levels.

Other than Auto Trader, he doesn't have a website.

A very good friend of mine works for them.

[anonymous-user]

northwest monkey said:

4rephill said:

If you're taking the company to court then you should be dealing with his partner rather than the than the guy who sold you the car as technically he's just "working for the company" and doesn't own it.

Yep - we're going after his missus as it's "her" company & not his (as per Companies House).

If it's Limited you can't go after his 'missus' unless you're saying she's committed some crime? You're 'going after' the Company.

I would suggest you take proper advice, it's in fairly short supply here.

[drdel]

If t'was me I'd write and offer him/her 7 days to agree to getting the faults you notified him of within a week of ownership repaired and the car fully working.

Tell tedhen if they do not respond promptly and because you need to use the vehicle you'll be getting car repair at his/her cost (est £2,500) and you will want your additional cost covered which you will do via the small claims court (which is quick and cheap).

Or they can fully refund your costs within the 7 days and you will return the car after the funds have cleared.