Insurance Woes - Feeling let down

[Retroman]

xjay1337 said:

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

That's what you'd expect if you turn into the path of another vehicle that's slightly behind you.

[TOPTON]

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

I read it as he turned across the left lane to leave the roundabout without checking the lane was empty. Therefore his 3/4 hit their front wing, as they were almost along side.

[Jayho]

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

If you look at the picture I was going straight on in the right hand lane, which I'm more than entitled to do. The only vehicle to my left at any point was leading up to the roundabout where there were cars signalling to go left. When I exited the roundabout, I had checked my mirrors, there was nothing there. I exited the roundabout on the right hand lane. The only assumption I made that day was that the car who was at a stop when I entered the roundabout, would have had sense not to drive into the rear wheel arch of my car. I was already fully on the roundabout, and in my opinion, made very clear my intentions. In all honest, if I was on the left hand lane, the likelihood that I would have been hit would still have been the same. Only difference it made was that rather than being hit on the side full on, it was the rear passenger side (for which I'm grateful for as I had a passenger in my car)

Now in terms of expecting a driver who was under the influence of alcohol to admit liability like a moral citizen. Well yes I did. I thought that given the circumstances of their actions that night, choosing to drive, that they would co-operate rather than running the risk of escalading this.

The only thing I do regret that night was the fact that I never managed to stop her driving off the second time. On a local social media group, in the same area there was a more serious drunk driving accident. The description of the car had matched the one which had hit me and at that moment I had felt incredible guilt for not having managed to stop her driving off. I can take semi solace in the fact that when the police officer phoned me back, they confirmed that the car which was in the other accident was not the one which hit me.

What intrigues me most now, is the fact that she's claiming damage to the front AND the back of her car. Which makes me question whether she had hit something else that night (hopefully not an innocent parked car).

[vonhosen]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/N+Anderson+Dr,...

This looks like the exit he was taking.
She was doing what the transit van was doing only behind him & he was taking that exit into lane 2, effectively imagine the white car to the transit's right but it trying to take the exit in front of her.
Two vehicles crossing a point on the road where they collide.

Moral of the story
1) Don't get alongside people on roundabouts if you can help it.
2) If you haven't got to the nearside lane before your exit, don't assume traffic in that nearside lane are taking that same exit.
3) If you can't do or aren't sure about 1) & 2) be prepared to go around again & get your exit safely next time around.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 4th May 17:18

[Jayho]

TOPTON said:

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

I read it as he turned across the left lane to leave the roundabout without checking the lane was empty. Therefore his 3/4 hit their front wing, as they were almost along side.

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time. If you see from the picture of where she entered the roundabout and where I was going, theoretically, there should not have been anyone to the left of me.

Furthermore, I had checked my mirror before exiting, and at that point I had seen her enter and actually thought "oh they're cutting it fine"

[vonhosen]

Jayho said:

TOPTON said:

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

I read it as he turned across the left lane to leave the roundabout without checking the lane was empty. Therefore his 3/4 hit their front wing, as they were almost along side.

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time. If you see from the picture of where she entered the roundabout and where I was going, theoretically, there should not have been anyone to the left of me.

Furthermore, I had checked my mirror before exiting, and at that point I had seen her enter and actually thought "oh they're cutting it fine"

There was space to the left & she was in it (by the looks of it)

[Jayho]

vonhosen said:

Jayho said:

TOPTON said:

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

I read it as he turned across the left lane to leave the roundabout without checking the lane was empty. Therefore his 3/4 hit their front wing, as they were almost along side.

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time. If you see from the picture of where she entered the roundabout and where I was going, theoretically, there should not have been anyone to the left of me.

Furthermore, I had checked my mirror before exiting, and at that point I had seen her enter and actually thought "oh they're cutting it fine"

There was space to the left & she was in it (by the looks of it)

OK, and I guess since I had actually started to exit the roundabout, I guess the "avoidance measure" I could have taken was redirect my car back into the right hand lane and go right round the roundabout. But I'm sure that if I did that she would still have collided with me.

In any case, what has happened has happened, all I can do is let insurance deal with it. I do appreciate the help of the Pistonhead masses and the general consensus that it will go 50/50. I'm always open to constructive criticism in all aspects of my life so all is taken on board. I will no longer assume that because I've crossed a junction where a car has already stopped that they will not be going into the side of me.

[KevinCamaroSS]

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

You forget that the 3rd party should not have entered the roundabout as the OP was already on it. If the 3rd party entered the roundabout from the OPs 1st exit they were either entering when unsafe to do so, or, going too fast, otherwise they should not have been in a position to hit the OPs car. I do agree that OP shares some of the blame, so 50:50 is most likely outcome.

[vonhosen]

Jayho said:

vonhosen said:

Jayho said:

TOPTON said:

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

I read it as he turned across the left lane to leave the roundabout without checking the lane was empty. Therefore his 3/4 hit their front wing, as they were almost along side.

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time. If you see from the picture of where she entered the roundabout and where I was going, theoretically, there should not have been anyone to the left of me.

Furthermore, I had checked my mirror before exiting, and at that point I had seen her enter and actually thought "oh they're cutting it fine"

There was space to the left & she was in it (by the looks of it)

OK, and I guess since I had actually started to exit the roundabout, I guess the "avoidance measure" I could have taken was redirect my car back into the right hand lane and go right round the roundabout. But I'm sure that if I did that she would still have collided with me.

In any case, what has happened has happened, all I can do is let insurance deal with it. I do appreciate the help of the Pistonhead masses and the general consensus that it will go 50/50. I'm always open to constructive criticism in all aspects of my life so all is taken on board. I will no longer assume that because I've crossed a junction where a car has already stopped that they will not be going into the side of me.

Roundabouts are notorious for 50/50 without independent witnesses or video.
They really are a place to try & practice what I outlined above.
(I take it I got the correct Google maps link above?)

[vonhosen]

KevinCamaroSS said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

You forget that the 3rd party should not have entered the roundabout as the OP was already on it. If the 3rd party entered the roundabout from the OPs 1st exit they were either entering when unsafe to do so, or, going too fast, otherwise they should not have been in a position to hit the OPs car. I do agree that OP shares some of the blame, so 50:50 is most likely outcome.

She can enter it if he is already on it.
She just has to give way to traffic from the right already on it.
Reads like the collision after that had happened & on the approach to the next exit.

[Sheepshanks]

Jayho said:

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time.

From the streetview link vh posted, there don't seem to be lanes on the roundabout at all.

I'm concerned by you using words and phrases like "right-of-way", "my lane" and "entitled". It might be worth signing up for a Defensive Driving course.

[Jayho]

vonhosen said:

Roundabouts are notorious for 50/50 without independent witnesses or video.
They really are a place to try & practice what I outlined above.
(I take it I got the correct Google maps link above?)

Yes that is the correct image. There seems to be a lot of emphasis that she was completely alongside me throughout, which is incorrect. I was definitely at all points in front of her. When passing the junction she was at a stop and only entered after I passed her. It seems that for her to be alongside me she would have increased speeds dramatically too. But I'm done with being irritated about this whole situation. I am at peace with the fact that she is disputing it and that I will possibly be suffering as a consequence.

[nitrodave]

I had similar once and the fact that the FRONT of their car hit the REAR of your car makes it their fault. Stand your ground on this.

Send them your streetview diagram and get your insurance company to fight this, it's what you pay them to do.

Good luck

[Jayho]

Sheepshanks said:

Jayho said:

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time.

From the streetview link vh posted, there don't seem to be lanes on the roundabout at all.

I'm concerned by you using words and phrases like "right-of-way", "my lane" and "entitled". It might be worth signing up for a Defensive Driving course.

Actually before insurance mentioned that she had disputed I "changed lanes" I hadn't even thought about the lanes. And in terms of right of way, it's probably the incorrect choice of words. I was always taught that when entering a roundabout to always give way to the person on your right, unless road markings or traffic lights dictate otherwise.

[vonhosen]

Jayho said:

vonhosen said:

Roundabouts are notorious for 50/50 without independent witnesses or video.
They really are a place to try & practice what I outlined above.
(I take it I got the correct Google maps link above?)

Yes that is the correct image. There seems to be a lot of emphasis that she was completely alongside me throughout, which is incorrect. I was definitely at all points in front of her. When passing the junction she was at a stop and only entered after I passed her. It seems that for her to be alongside me she would have increased speeds dramatically too. But I'm done with being irritated about this whole situation. I am at peace with the fact that she is disputing it and that I will possibly be suffering as a consequence.

You were trying to exit into lane 2 of that exit in the google map image?

If you are then you are effectively crossing a lane to your nearside, in which may be vehicles not intending to take lane 1 of the exit you took, but passing that exit for the next exit.

[rambo19]

Retroman said:

This is why i run a dash cam.

You say she drove into you.
She says you changed lanes and drove into her.
Without evidence, insurance companies often have little choice but to do 50/50 liability.

This 1000%^

I cannot for the life of me understand why people still don't have a dashcam!

[Sheepshanks]

rambo19 said:

Retroman said:

This is why i run a dash cam.

You say she drove into you.
She says you changed lanes and drove into her.
Without evidence, insurance companies often have little choice but to do 50/50 liability.

This 1000%^

I cannot for the life of me understand why people still don't have a dashcam!

How would a dashcam have helped the OP in this case?

[TooMany2cvs]

Jayho said:

If you look at the picture I was going straight on in the right hand lane, which I'm more than entitled to do.

I don't care if you're "entitled" (although I'm starting to think that's half of the problem). Sitting in L2 when L1 is empty is a stupid thing to do. Sitting in L2 when you pass an r'a'b entrance, then heading blithely to the next exit is a stupid thing to do. Not making sure there's nothing in your left R3Q when you do so is a REALLY stupid thing to do.

Jayho said:

The only vehicle to my left at any point was leading up to the roundabout where there were cars signalling to go left.

All the more reason not to be in L2. But, of course, you're forgetting about the car that was on your left when you and it made contact...

Jayho said:

When I exited the roundabout, I had checked my mirrors, there was nothing there.

So, umm, what hit you? Did you look over your shoulder, or just rely on the mirror? You go on to say that you saw their car stationary at the entrance, so you must have looked AT that entrance as you passed it? Did you look in your LH mirror at ANY stage in the distance between passing that entrance and the exit?

Did you actually see them stationary? Because, if they were, they must have accelerated bloody hard to hit you as you turned off.

Jayho said:

I exited the roundabout on the right hand lane.

Don't tell me - as you were "entitled" to do, with your "absolute right of way"?

Jayho said:

I was already fully on the roundabout, and in my opinion, made very clear my intentions.

Did that include indicators...? When did you start indicating left?

When they pulled off from the junction, they would have been seeing this, and you would have been about where the red Focus is, or further forward - heading off at the next exit?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.1607044,-2.14484...

Edited by TooMany2cvs on Wednesday 4th May 18:42

[Red Devil]

I think this view gives a better perspective of the lead up to the collision - https://goo.gl/maps/ux3VXYf7Q872. If the OP was in the (unmarked) right hand lane all the way through until his chosen exit then, whether or not he was 'entitled' to be there, it was an example of poor judgement. I have observed near misses quite often on roundabouts which have a similarly elongated oval shape as that one. Those who have been taught defensive driving will be aware of the additional potential for collisions in such circumstances.

[Jayho]

Ok it seems that a lot of the PH masses will argue that I should and could have done a lot more than I did.

Im pretty adiment that what I did was completely correct, regardless of situation. A lot of these criticisms are beyond being constructive now. I now have the answer that a lot of cases simular will go 50/50.

I am actually lost for words as to me being on the roundabout and already decided what I was doing beforehand can paint me as in the wrong. But we live to learn.

Will update once insurance has been sorted. But at the time I will be logging off as I have answers and I'm now more educated.

Cheers all.