Parking Eye taking me to a small claims court
Discussion
Trabi601 said:
Signage looks pretty clear to me.
2 hours max stay is all I can clearly read... Game over? I mean seriously what is the point in this type of petty, punitive, pointless, business of parking persecution? I suspect it was 95% empty and with a closed shop! Meantime I promise NOT to shop at The Range unles this is resolved positively. Haven't shopped at Debenhams for 4 years since PE 'did' my old Mum for shopping too slowly in Llandudno. It's petty but I do know their loss is now far greater than hers. Some form of karma for a bad business all round.
Edited by Ken Figenus on Monday 29th August 11:23
PurpleMoonlight said:
It never ceases to amaze me how outraged some selfish drivers become when caught breaking the parking rules notified at the time of parking.
If only they were so zealous in complying as they are in avoiding.
Bit of a wide brush you're tarring all drivers who get a parking ticket with there, no?If only they were so zealous in complying as they are in avoiding.
You're right, some people are just trying to weasel out of a totally justified ticket, but there are many that are caught out by incorrect/badly lit/poorly positioned signage etc who were unaware that charges applied. They are not selfish and the whole point is that they were NOT correctly notified at the time of parking (hence the guidlines in the BPA code of practice that lay out what is considered to be correct signage - to ensure that all is fair).
Personally, I think a little bit of outrage is perfectly justified in those circumstances.
This is why the option to appeal to POPLA exists (and worked exactly like it should in my case), with the burden of responsibility on the motorist to prove the Parking Company's fault. That IMO, is entirely correct and fair.
Mike_Mac said:
This is why the option to appeal to POPLA exists (and worked exactly like it should in my case), with the burden of responsibility on the motorist to prove the Parking Company's fault. That IMO, is entirely correct and fair.
That would be fine and dandy except that the government firstly allowed itself to to be duped by the private parking industry with false information/figures prior to drafting the relevant sections/schedules of PoFA 2012 and, not content with that, then dropped the ball again and allowed a second strand to be set up, namely the IPC and its tame kangaroo court the IAS (IPC = BPA and IAS = Ombusdman Services* ). The IPC is run by two partners in a firm of solicitors which acts for several PPCs. It is quite obvious that there is a clear conflict of interest there, but the government doesn't give a rat's whatsit about the mess it has allowed to be created.It also needs to be remembered that, just like the IPC, the BPA is a parking operators' trade body and should have no place in deciding who hears appeals. Its track record in disciplining its members is woeful (that of the other lot is practically non-existent). Furthermore the DVLA should also act far more robustly where a PPC is shown to have flouted the KADOE rules but that would dent it's fee income stream from giving out RK details.
* POPLA has not been the adjudicating body for BPA members since 6th March 2015.
The PPC industry is incapable of self-regulation and there are no effective punitive sanctions for those within it which regularly abuse the court system. It is high time the government legislated for a statutory appeals regime just like there is for local authority parking (London Tribunals/TPT).
Btw, Beavis is not the magic bullet the industry would like to have everyone believe. You have to give the judgement close scrutiny to understand why that is so.
I hate all these parking companies and think 99% of them are robbing, thieving b
ds. The company that runs the parking at triton road shopping centre was caught deliberately altering time stamps on photos to enhance there cash flow.
I bet nobody goes to jail over this and the considerable funds will never get recovered. In fact I was in Costa coffe there yesterday and it's no longer run by this firm. I bet a bit of digging would show it's the same people behind it though.
http://thelincolnite.co.uk/2015/09/former-lincoln-...
It later transpired it was more than just the one site as well and transpired it was instructed from on high.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is...
ds. The company that runs the parking at triton road shopping centre was caught deliberately altering time stamps on photos to enhance there cash flow. I bet nobody goes to jail over this and the considerable funds will never get recovered. In fact I was in Costa coffe there yesterday and it's no longer run by this firm. I bet a bit of digging would show it's the same people behind it though.
http://thelincolnite.co.uk/2015/09/former-lincoln-...
It later transpired it was more than just the one site as well and transpired it was instructed from on high.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is...
Edited by Markbarry1977 on Monday 29th August 08:30
Trabi601 said:
Signage looks pretty clear to me.
It doesn't matter a toss if the signage looks clear to you.The signage should comply with the BPA Code of Practice. The signs needs to be a certain minimum size - this size varies depending on the speed limit of the road from which you enter.
There are loads of other signage requirements to meet too - and a single sign that looks clear to Trabi601 isn't one of them.
See section 18:
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AO...
Edited by johnfm on Monday 29th August 21:09
There are 4 signs visible as you approach the car park. There is street lighting, so that's a 30mph limit.
I'd be astounded if there's a technicality to get the OP out of this - they are clearly banning cars from the site due to anti-social behaviour - and I suspect a lot more to this story than we are being told. There is absolutely no reason to be sitting in that car park 'drinking coffee' in the dark.
Groups of young lads in cars have made my wife's place of work hazardous on dark evenings - especially when she's leaving at 9.30pm during winter months. Issuing tickets is one of the few options available to retailers to control such use of their car parks, short of installing barriers.
I'd be astounded if there's a technicality to get the OP out of this - they are clearly banning cars from the site due to anti-social behaviour - and I suspect a lot more to this story than we are being told. There is absolutely no reason to be sitting in that car park 'drinking coffee' in the dark.
Groups of young lads in cars have made my wife's place of work hazardous on dark evenings - especially when she's leaving at 9.30pm during winter months. Issuing tickets is one of the few options available to retailers to control such use of their car parks, short of installing barriers.
Perik Omo said:
mikeveal said:
Perik Omo said:
Have you checked that they have planning permission for the camera and signs. Case has just come up about Morrisons car park in Letchworth Garden City where they have put up the camera poles, cameras, signage etc. without planning permission which is required. Apparently they are always doing this and only apply for retrospective planning permission if caught out. A local councillor in LGC reckons that any parking invoices cannot be enforced and the poles, cameras and signs will have to come down until planning is obtained.
Since when do you need planning permission for CCTV, or for that matter signage in a private car park?Please quote the relevant (section of) legislation.
I'm interested as I'm about to put up CCTV.
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk//launc...
Please see my emboldening above. Local rag can print whatever they like, local councillor can say whatever he likes. Neither are makers of law.
You might not need planning permission per se for CCTV or signs in your car park, however I can envisage scenarios where a development such as a supermarket gains planning permission to be built, subject to certain stipulations. If those stipulations were to include the signage and parking restrictions for customers, there might be an argument that deviating from them might invalidate the permission as a whole.
Trabi601 said:
I'd be astounded if there's a technicality to get the OP out of this - they are clearly banning cars from the site due to anti-social behaviour - and I suspect a lot more to this story than we are being told.
I've had a few POPLA wins against PE and The Range for lack of landowner authority.The Range do not own the land that most of their sites are situated on, they are often owned by local authorities, trust fund, property banks, pension fund holders etc. For PE or any other PPC there had to be a clear chain of authority from landowner to lease holder, to PPC.
Most retail park tickets can use this as part of an appeal.
S11Steve said:
I've had a few POPLA wins against PE and The Range for lack of landowner authority.
The Range do not own the land that most of their sites are situated on, they are often owned by local authorities, trust fund, property banks, pension fund holders etc. For PE or any other PPC there had to be a clear chain of authority from landowner to lease holder, to PPC.
Most retail park tickets can use this as part of an appeal.
Pe is land owner agreements are a hoot.The Range do not own the land that most of their sites are situated on, they are often owned by local authorities, trust fund, property banks, pension fund holders etc. For PE or any other PPC there had to be a clear chain of authority from landowner to lease holder, to PPC.
Most retail park tickets can use this as part of an appeal.
Scanned 16 times normally so it's blurry as hell. Use two for one site in my case, not that the BPA or POPLA wanted to discuss that. The heavily redact the, to the point as it's almost a useless document.
They have lost 100s of appeals of dodgy land owner consent but BPA let them carry on ticketing people.
PurpleMoonlight said:
It never ceases to amaze me how outraged some selfish drivers become when caught breaking the parking rules notified at the time of parking.
If only they were so zealous in complying as they are in avoiding.
I'm afraid I agree.If only they were so zealous in complying as they are in avoiding.
At the end of the day, when you drive into a car park you are driving onto private land that someone paid a lot of money for, usually for the purposes of their business.
Before you drive onto that private land, take a couple of seconds to ascertain if you are using it legitimately and within the landowners rules.
You wouldn't park on someone's driveway outside their house and drink a coffee would you?
I speak as someone who owns a private car park, and was once responsible for the management of a large office car park attached to the office where our business was located.
You would not believe the amount of people willing to abuse a town centre car park on a daily basis just because they think they will get away with it. In the end we signed up to Parking Eye who installed number plate reading cameras.
This is not aimed at the OP, but those that seem to think you should be able to park on private land for reasons not allowed by the land owner, and then have nothing happen to them, or that the whole process is some sort of game.
When you find yourself in the position of paying £80,000 a year for 100 private parking spaces, only to find that 5-10 members of staff can't park their cars on a daily basis because some deadbeats have decided it's 'just a parking space' and leave their battered Fords or whatever there while they waddle to Iceland and Argos, then you will see what car park owners have been up against for years.
Rant over. I feel better now
Edit to add: I do not in any way condone those parking control companies that carry out any form of fraud or abuse of process, such as tampering with time stamps. They should be dealt with extremely harshly.
Edited by NinjaPower on Tuesday 30th August 23:26
Ok 6 of the 7 tickets we have received are total fruad.
One was for a van that pulled into a car for 9 minutes and could not park as no spaces. Pe sent us £100 fine claiming their anpr said we were there 12 minutes, the don't have a land owner contract with the owner of the land. They lost planning permission at the site to operate a car park as they are still to this day. The site is supposed to being built on according to the land owner. Theylost planing in Dec 15 and no ,longer have planning for short term car park.
BPA allow 10 minute grace period, how their anpr didn't match our tracker data! Anyway there signage plan didn't match the site plan and their signage is not BPA complaint. They lost on land owner agreement but would of lost on 6 separate failures under the BPA code. BPA is a sham they set a code dvla say ok your good we let your members have dvla data fine. Then they have no teeth to enforce their code.
Apcoa have sent us 2 tickets with some tickets for other people in the same envelope. Our driver stayed for 4 nights at a travel lodge and entered his Reg into their system it they have still tried to defraud us and others looking at the ticket for the lady in out envelope. Turns out he hotel know their payment machine was broken and Apcoa new they had to fix this but instead issue loads of fines, even thought their machine was broken! Hotel confirmed this.
We have had one ticket were our driver used a retail carpark without seeing the tiny signs, for over he free time G24 sent a letter offering popla appeal despite the fact they haven't down popla appeals for years as they aren't BPA members. They now can't send a letter that makes any sense and heard nothing mor from the. Since the 18th July.
They all deny all appeals and hope you pay, they go to popla appeal knowing they will lose £27 and just play poker and hope you will back down.
If they could find the bottom with both hand it's would help these mostly sham companies to extract money from mugs.
One was for a van that pulled into a car for 9 minutes and could not park as no spaces. Pe sent us £100 fine claiming their anpr said we were there 12 minutes, the don't have a land owner contract with the owner of the land. They lost planning permission at the site to operate a car park as they are still to this day. The site is supposed to being built on according to the land owner. Theylost planing in Dec 15 and no ,longer have planning for short term car park.
BPA allow 10 minute grace period, how their anpr didn't match our tracker data! Anyway there signage plan didn't match the site plan and their signage is not BPA complaint. They lost on land owner agreement but would of lost on 6 separate failures under the BPA code. BPA is a sham they set a code dvla say ok your good we let your members have dvla data fine. Then they have no teeth to enforce their code.
Apcoa have sent us 2 tickets with some tickets for other people in the same envelope. Our driver stayed for 4 nights at a travel lodge and entered his Reg into their system it they have still tried to defraud us and others looking at the ticket for the lady in out envelope. Turns out he hotel know their payment machine was broken and Apcoa new they had to fix this but instead issue loads of fines, even thought their machine was broken! Hotel confirmed this.
We have had one ticket were our driver used a retail carpark without seeing the tiny signs, for over he free time G24 sent a letter offering popla appeal despite the fact they haven't down popla appeals for years as they aren't BPA members. They now can't send a letter that makes any sense and heard nothing mor from the. Since the 18th July.
They all deny all appeals and hope you pay, they go to popla appeal knowing they will lose £27 and just play poker and hope you will back down.
If they could find the bottom with both hand it's would help these mostly sham companies to extract money from mugs.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Tuesday 30th August 23:41
I'm not sure how people manage to get themselves into such a situation - especially those with multiple tickets!
My working life over the past decade has involved parking in retail parks, supermarket car parks, motorway service areas - all the kind of places people seem to collect tickets from.
I've had a couple from service areas, but a quick email to the parking provider from my company email address has seen them dropped immediately. Perhaps it's because I reply the day I get the letter, politely but firmly.
Mind you, I am one of those sensible types who realises that most car parks have some kind of restriction on them, so check what it is and ensure I don't go against the rules.
Life is much easier if you read the (usually very obvious signage) and avoid breaking the rules, rather than chasing around trying to duck out of the charge later.
My working life over the past decade has involved parking in retail parks, supermarket car parks, motorway service areas - all the kind of places people seem to collect tickets from.
I've had a couple from service areas, but a quick email to the parking provider from my company email address has seen them dropped immediately. Perhaps it's because I reply the day I get the letter, politely but firmly.
Mind you, I am one of those sensible types who realises that most car parks have some kind of restriction on them, so check what it is and ensure I don't go against the rules.
Life is much easier if you read the (usually very obvious signage) and avoid breaking the rules, rather than chasing around trying to duck out of the charge later.
Trabi601 said:
I'm not sure how people manage to get themselves into such a situation - especially those with multiple tickets!
My working life over the past decade has involved parking in retail parks, supermarket car parks, motorway service areas - all the kind of places people seem to collect tickets from.
I've had a couple from service areas, but a quick email to the parking provider from my company email address has seen them dropped immediately. Perhaps it's because I reply the day I get the letter, politely but firmly.
Mind you, I am one of those sensible types who realises that most car parks have some kind of restriction on them, so check what it is and ensure I don't go against the rules.
Life is much easier if you read the (usually very obvious signage) and avoid breaking the rules, rather than chasing around trying to duck out of the charge later.
Same here. I'm alsoresponsible for parking at some of our sites. The selfishness of some people fails to surprise me any more. As a result of this we've contracted out parking management to a private company.My working life over the past decade has involved parking in retail parks, supermarket car parks, motorway service areas - all the kind of places people seem to collect tickets from.
I've had a couple from service areas, but a quick email to the parking provider from my company email address has seen them dropped immediately. Perhaps it's because I reply the day I get the letter, politely but firmly.
Mind you, I am one of those sensible types who realises that most car parks have some kind of restriction on them, so check what it is and ensure I don't go against the rules.
Life is much easier if you read the (usually very obvious signage) and avoid breaking the rules, rather than chasing around trying to duck out of the charge later.
Countdown said:
Same here. I'm alsoresponsible for parking at some of our sites. The selfishness of some people fails to surprise me any more. As a result of this we've contracted out parking management to a private company.
Quite, the PPC's only exist because of the actions of the general public.Forgive me if I don't share your positive views of these companies.
I've only had the one private parking ticket - parked at the local station, paid by RingGo yet a ticket was issued an hour later.
Followed their appeal process and it was rejected - apparently the vat invoice they email isn't proof of payment!
Second appeal was also rejected. It was only when I called in to speak to a supervisor and politely told them to jump straight to the court stage that they admitted their records showed the operator didn't download that day's RingGo payments before walking the car park and they don't cross-check payments with tickets before issuing.
I received a letter a couple of days later saying they'd cancelled the ticket as a goodwill gesture but to make sure I paid next time!
I've only had the one private parking ticket - parked at the local station, paid by RingGo yet a ticket was issued an hour later.
Followed their appeal process and it was rejected - apparently the vat invoice they email isn't proof of payment!
Second appeal was also rejected. It was only when I called in to speak to a supervisor and politely told them to jump straight to the court stage that they admitted their records showed the operator didn't download that day's RingGo payments before walking the car park and they don't cross-check payments with tickets before issuing.
I received a letter a couple of days later saying they'd cancelled the ticket as a goodwill gesture but to make sure I paid next time!
Trabi601 said:
I'm not sure how people manage to get themselves into such a situation - especially those with multiple tickets!
My working life over the past decade has involved parking in retail parks, supermarket car parks, motorway service areas - all the kind of places people seem to collect tickets from.
I've had a couple from service areas, but a quick email to the parking provider from my company email address has seen them dropped immediately. Perhaps it's because I reply the day I get the letter, politely but firmly.
Mind you, I am one of those sensible types who realises that most car parks have some kind of restriction on them, so check what it is and ensure I don't go against the rules.
Life is much easier if you read the (usually very obvious signage) and avoid breaking the rules, rather than chasing around trying to duck out of the charge later.
What you say is true for about that some people don't check. But you can't got legal on people on land you don't have land owner authority on. Many of the operators cases falls to pieces when challenged on inspected.My working life over the past decade has involved parking in retail parks, supermarket car parks, motorway service areas - all the kind of places people seem to collect tickets from.
I've had a couple from service areas, but a quick email to the parking provider from my company email address has seen them dropped immediately. Perhaps it's because I reply the day I get the letter, politely but firmly.
Mind you, I am one of those sensible types who realises that most car parks have some kind of restriction on them, so check what it is and ensure I don't go against the rules.
Life is much easier if you read the (usually very obvious signage) and avoid breaking the rules, rather than chasing around trying to duck out of the charge later.
You must be very lucky asi said as many as 70% of tickets I have seen the driver has not breached the terms. Many high profile operators have been caught double dipping and or amending their time stamps on photos anpr data to show a breach.
People in Newquay pull into a bush carpark drive around for 5-30 mins but never park as its full at peek season get £100 fines for not paying to park for Christ sakes, just do some research and you will see how badly run and policed this industry is.
That means the public are being fleeced and landowners like Some in here who have a genuine problem, struggle to enforce their own land as the PPC operate in a way that brings the whole Indusrty in disrepute.
It's in all interest of the government get a regulator who isn't paid for by the firms and has teeth.
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