Dashcam - Asking for trouble?
Discussion
carinaman said:
Bloody hell. What happened to the biker who was recording that?ModernAndy said:
Bloody hell. What happened to the biker who was recording that?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/809555...ModernAndy said:
carinaman said:
Bloody hell. What happened to the biker who was recording that?ModernAndy said:
Bloody hell. What happened to the biker who was recording that?
The description of the video says...The caption said:
Frederick Bowden, aged 42, from Helston, was convicted of dangerous driving at Truro Crown Court, Cornwall on 11 June 2009. His conviction follows a fatal collision on 13 July 2008 when fellow motorcyclist Andrew Prowse, 45, lost control of his bike and was killed as he and Bowden rode along the A30 near Loggans Moor, Hayle.
At the time of the crash Bowden was filming from his bike using a tank mounted camera. The footage shows Bowden reaching speeds in excess of 160mph as he travelled along country lanes and dual carriageways before the horrific crash which was captured on camera.
Bowden was given a 51 week sentence suspended for two years and disqualified from driving for three years.
...and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/809555...At the time of the crash Bowden was filming from his bike using a tank mounted camera. The footage shows Bowden reaching speeds in excess of 160mph as he travelled along country lanes and dual carriageways before the horrific crash which was captured on camera.
Bowden was given a 51 week sentence suspended for two years and disqualified from driving for three years.
No mention of what happened to the muppet that pulled out in front of the bike. They were doing about 95 at the time.
TooMany2cvs said:
ModernAndy said:
Bloody hell. What happened to the biker who was recording that?
The description of the video says...The caption said:
Frederick Bowden, aged 42, from Helston, was convicted of dangerous driving at Truro Crown Court, Cornwall on 11 June 2009. His conviction follows a fatal collision on 13 July 2008 when fellow motorcyclist Andrew Prowse, 45, lost control of his bike and was killed as he and Bowden rode along the A30 near Loggans Moor, Hayle.
At the time of the crash Bowden was filming from his bike using a tank mounted camera. The footage shows Bowden reaching speeds in excess of 160mph as he travelled along country lanes and dual carriageways before the horrific crash which was captured on camera.
Bowden was given a 51 week sentence suspended for two years and disqualified from driving for three years.
...and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/809555...At the time of the crash Bowden was filming from his bike using a tank mounted camera. The footage shows Bowden reaching speeds in excess of 160mph as he travelled along country lanes and dual carriageways before the horrific crash which was captured on camera.
Bowden was given a 51 week sentence suspended for two years and disqualified from driving for three years.
No mention of what happened to the muppet that pulled out in front of the bike. They were doing about 95 at the time.
Pre-dashcam footage released to in an attempt to improve road safety:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1534465.stm
http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/2001/09/09/...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1534465.stm
http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/2001/09/09/...
TooMany2cvs said:
ModernAndy said:
Bloody hell. What happened to the biker who was recording that?
The description of the video says...The caption said:
Frederick Bowden, aged 42, from Helston, was convicted of dangerous driving at Truro Crown Court, Cornwall on 11 June 2009. His conviction follows a fatal collision on 13 July 2008 when fellow motorcyclist Andrew Prowse, 45, lost control of his bike and was killed as he and Bowden rode along the A30 near Loggans Moor, Hayle.
At the time of the crash Bowden was filming from his bike using a tank mounted camera. The footage shows Bowden reaching speeds in excess of 160mph as he travelled along country lanes and dual carriageways before the horrific crash which was captured on camera.
Bowden was given a 51 week sentence suspended for two years and disqualified from driving for three years.
...and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/809555...At the time of the crash Bowden was filming from his bike using a tank mounted camera. The footage shows Bowden reaching speeds in excess of 160mph as he travelled along country lanes and dual carriageways before the horrific crash which was captured on camera.
Bowden was given a 51 week sentence suspended for two years and disqualified from driving for three years.
No mention of what happened to the muppet that pulled out in front of the bike. They were doing about 95 at the time.
tapereel said:
Maybe you would need to apportion the blame for that collision. A small, perhaps very small amount of blame would be apportioned to "the muppet" as you put it if any at all.
The car driver overtook where they shouldn't have without checking their mirrors. I'm only a lay-person but I can't see that being anything less than death by dangerous driving.ETA- the bikers were of course speeding but a driver should be expected to notice them (at least below 70-100mph closing speed)
ETA again- after watching a few more times it's maybe not as clear cut as I've said above
Edited by ModernAndy on Saturday 29th October 12:18
ModernAndy said:
tapereel said:
Maybe you would need to apportion the blame for that collision. A small, perhaps very small amount of blame would be apportioned to "the muppet" as you put it if any at all.
The car driver overtook where they shouldn't have without checking their mirrors. I'm only a lay-person but I can't see that being anything less than death by dangerous driving.ETA- the bikers were of course speeding but a driver should be expected to notice them (at least below 70-100mph closing speed)
That is why I suggested some blame needs to be apportioned to those involved.
Heading into that situation on a bike at 90mph may well lead to misjudgement on the car driver's part but is it reasonable to expect that driver to expect a vehicle doing 90+ just off a roundabout?
I ride a powerful bike so when driving a car an aware of what bikes are capable of. I doubt many car drivers are so I can see very little blame apportioned to that car driver.
I have no idea what the apportionment of blame was in that accident but see why the car driver pulled out; the bike was doing more than 45m/second so the car driver could have checked his mirror, saw the bike was 100m behind him and 2 or 3 seconds later was beyond the point of avoiding a collision.
Why was the car driver not allowed to overtake?
Looking at the behaviours of the riders throughout the film and they were fortunate to get as far as they did before a collision occurred perhaps.
Edited by tapereel on Saturday 29th October 12:33
tapereel said:
Maybe you would need to apportion the blame for that collision.
To the person who pulled into a hatched area of road without even bothering to glance at his mirrors to see if there was anything coming (with headlights on)? Yep, I would need to. You're right. Well done.Going back to the original reports, it looks to have turned into a VERY big mess...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/7504779.s...
http://www.everyaccident.co.uk/accident-200850AY2C...
http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/2406932.shock...
Vehicle 1 in that last link seems to have been the one that pulled out to pass - and he managed to roll it, according to that report. Looks like a right ol' shed of a Fester if it's the one in that image, 23yo male driver. Hmm...
Also, this report is clear that the DD charge was NOT in relation to the collision, but to the riding beforehand.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/speedin...
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Saturday 29th October 12:38
tapereel said:
I agree the driver should see approaching vehicles when pulling out but when observing an approaching vehicle is it reasonable to expect that driver to assess the approaching vehicle to be at 90mph plus?
Yes, it bloody well is...Is it reasonable to expect a car to pull onto the hatched section of the road to overtake? Highway Code 130 ring any bells?
ModernAndy said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Yes, it bloody well is...
Is it reasonable to expect a car to pull onto the hatched section of the road to overtake? Highway Code 130 ring any bells?
The white lines are broken so they can...Is it reasonable to expect a car to pull onto the hatched section of the road to overtake? Highway Code 130 ring any bells?
Highway Code said:
If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...Could he see it was safe to do so? No.
Was it necessary? No.
TooMany2cvs said:
ModernAndy said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Yes, it bloody well is...
Is it reasonable to expect a car to pull onto the hatched section of the road to overtake? Highway Code 130 ring any bells?
The white lines are broken so they can...Is it reasonable to expect a car to pull onto the hatched section of the road to overtake? Highway Code 130 ring any bells?
Highway Code said:
If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/gener...Could he see it was safe to do so? No.
Was it necessary? No.
TooMany2cvs said:
Could he see it was safe to do so? No.
Was it necessary? No.
The 'not see it was safe to do so' applies to the car driver more than the biker, the biker should have anticipated that the car might pull out, the car driver should have noticed that the bike had already pulled out.Was it necessary? No.
As for necessary, yes it was. The overtake could not have been made without entering the hashed area.
TooMany2cvs said:
Yes, it bloody well is...
Is it reasonable to expect a car to pull onto the hatched section of the road to overtake? Highway Code 130 ring any bells?
He's peddling an agenda, so as you already know his output is hardly likely to be impartial or unbiased where elements of that agenda are involved.Is it reasonable to expect a car to pull onto the hatched section of the road to overtake? Highway Code 130 ring any bells?
Dr Jekyll said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Could he see it was safe to do so? No.
Was it necessary? No.
The 'not see it was safe to do so' applies to the car driver more than the bikerWas it necessary? No.
Dr Jekyll said:
As for necessary, yes it was. The overtake could not have been made without entering the hashed area.
Overtakes don't count as "necessary".Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff