Deliberate RTAs - suicide and The Tipping Point

[domster]

Interesting book I've just read called The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell. In it, he shows how a publicised suicide sometimes gives other suicidal people licence to end their own lives. The power of suggestion and group approval, in a nutshell.

Anyway, he had some interesting statistics re road traffic accidents in America. He showed how a researcher matched up front page suicide stories in the LA Times and San Francisco with Californian traffic fatalities. On the day after a highly publicised suicide (via any means, not necessarily road or car related), the number of fatalities from road accidents was, on average, 5.9% higher than expected. Two days after, 4.1%. Three days after 3.1%. Four days after 8.1%. Then back to normal.

Basically, people suggestible to suicide were using cars to kill themselves.

I mention this as it shows that some RTA fatalities could be deliberate and no number of Gatsos will prevent it. Trying to reduce deaths on the road to virtually nothing will always be an impossibility.

Investigating the reasons people speed and why they crash could be of more benefit than just setting up another scamera van. And a tiny proportion of RTAs will happen anyway, deliberately.

Food for thought, really.

Regards
Dom

[jacko lah]

I know someone that tried to end it by driving a 1981 Y reg SR cavalier (believed the only SR left) into a concrete wall. Unfortunately he survived and the car did not. (Might have been better the other way round)

[rude girl]

It's a well-understood phenomenon. There's an agreement between the Press and the Railway not to publicise railway suicides because of it.

[nonegreen]

rude girl said:

It's a well-understood phenomenon. There's an agreement between the Press and the Railway not to publicise railway suicides because of it.

I understand that very few train drivers go a whole career without killing someone.

[einion yrth]

nonegreen said:

rude girl said: It's a well-understood phenomenon. There's an agreement between the Press and the Railway not to publicise railway suicides because of it. I understand that very few train drivers go a whole career without killing someone.

Might be better phrased along the lines of 'being in the cab when someone kills him/her self'

[munter]

einion yrth said:

nonegreen said: rude girl said: It's a well-understood phenomenon. There's an agreement between the Press and the Railway not to publicise railway suicides because of it. I understand that very few train drivers go a whole career without killing someone. Might be better phrased along the lines of 'being in the cab when someone kills him/her self'

I donno'. All those winging passengers it must be a strain sometimes not to....

[kenp]

Surely some mistake. Gatsos prevent speeding, suicides and cancer.

[jolley]

nonegreen said:

rude girl said: It's a well-understood phenomenon. There's an agreement between the Press and the Railway not to publicise railway suicides because of it. I understand that very few train drivers go a whole career without killing someone.

I looked after a 10 mile section of resignalling on the West Coast Mainline around Stafford. On that 10 mile section in 2 years, 4 people died that I knew of. When you multiply that by the number of similar sections of rail it adds up!!

(sorry if that is a little off the topic of RTAs).

Edited to say that I also knew someone that tried to kill themselves in a car, although fortunately she was so out of it that she decided a roundabout would end it!! (don't worry, I have joked with her about it). She was not thinking straight, but she (and anyone in the vicinity) was just fortunate that no-one got in her way.

>> Edited by jolley on Friday 18th March 00:39

[apache]

kenp said:

Surely some mistake. Gatsos prevent speeding, suicides and cancer.

Absolutely!, the A14 otherwise known as the road of death has, under massive local dissent, been decided worthy of yet more scameras and a reduced speed limit of 60mph. My once receding hairline now obscures my vision, and the dead are walking once more. The fact that the death defying speed of 70mph hasn't been achievable on the A14 since the late 18th century seems oddly irrelevant to the Safety Partnership.

[domster]

What amazes me (slightly off my own topic ) is how much traffic travels on high speed derestricted A+B roads, efficiently, helping the cogs of business turn, plus how much sheer fun it can be to drive on those roads. If anyone looked at the benefits of these roads, I think the disbenefits would be put into context.

I am all for better signage, safer road markings and layout (seen some very dodgy examples in my time, and have even had them successfully improved), but all this lowering speed limits stuff is misguided. Some road safety campaigners would love the whole road network to be limited to 20mph and GPS enforced, whereby the whole nation will disappear down the pan. Business will be killed overnight as productivity goes back to the stone ages. Plus a proportion of the 30 million motorists in the UK will have to take up heroin to get their fix of excitement (or maybe an X box or karting will suffice)

[alans]

einion yrth said:

nonegreen said: rude girl said: It's a well-understood phenomenon. There's an agreement between the Press and the Railway not to publicise railway suicides because of it. I understand that very few train drivers go a whole career without killing someone. Might be better phrased along the lines of 'being in the cab when someone kills him/her self'

I was on a C2C a few weeks ago, lady walked out in front of it I spoke to the driver and it was his 5th! but he was very hardened to it, and said "well another month's holiday".

[rude girl]

alans said:

I was on a C2C a few weeks ago, lady walked out in front of it I spoke to the driver and it was his 5th! but he was very hardened to it, and said "well another month's holiday".

Despite the joke, it's pretty unpleasant for the drivers. Not all suicides 'walk out' in front of the train and make it a quick job. Some of the other ways they end it all are pretty grisly, and sickening for the driver, not to mention the teams who go out to clean up, or the teams who clean the trains (hit a body at high enough speed and it explodes).

I know of one driver who drives a route with a favourite spot for suicides, and he's had 12.

[nonegreen]

einion yrth said:

nonegreen said: rude girl said: It's a well-understood phenomenon. There's an agreement between the Press and the Railway not to publicise railway suicides because of it. I understand that very few train drivers go a whole career without killing someone. Might be better phrased along the lines of 'being in the cab when someone kills him/her self'

Erm yes fair point I can be a bit blunt sometimes.

[alans]

rude girl said:

alans said: I was on a C2C a few weeks ago, lady walked out in front of it I spoke to the driver and it was his 5th! but he was very hardened to it, and said "well another month's holiday". Despite the joke, it's pretty unpleasant for the drivers. Not all suicides 'walk out' in front of the train and make it a quick job. Some of the other ways they end it all are pretty grisly, and sickening for the driver, not to mention the teams who go out to clean up, or the teams who clean the trains (hit a body at high enough speed and it explodes). I know of one driver who drives a route with a favourite spot for suicides, and he's had 12.

Wasn't making light of it, sorry if I caused any offence RG.

[sadako]

I read an article about suicides on the tube, or "one-unders". Some of the descriptions are quite horriffic, considering the suicide attempts often fail when the person gets thown into the gully, mamed and burned but still alive. They then have to cut the power, secure the person, and hold him/her down while the power is turned back on to move the train before they can rescue the person.