Discussion
Pete317 said:
vonhosen said:
Pete317 said:
vonhosen said:
ACPO guidelines were that they'd expect that people would have been reported by the time they got 10% + 2mph over the limit unless there were exceptional circumstances.
You're right that often gets ignored & people don't get reported for speeds beyond that.
As in my reply to singlecoil above - try reading the rest of the document, like sect 1.1 for example.You're right that often gets ignored & people don't get reported for speeds beyond that.
Only a very small part of the guidelines deals with enforcement thresholds, but that's apparently the only bit you guys see.
(Even though ACPO guidelines are defunct, ACPO doesn't exist).
But as you don't have a beef with any of it, then it surely doesn't matter to you.
cmaguire said:
vonhosen said:
The limits exist for many reasons.
Wherever they exist we aren't supposed to be exceeding them, hence the legislation & sanctions for doing so.
You didn't answer either of my questions, possibly because you can see where they lead.Wherever they exist we aren't supposed to be exceeding them, hence the legislation & sanctions for doing so.
You asked what is 'the' reason the limit shouldn't be exceeded. The answer is there isn't one ('the') reason. That's why I said they exist for many reasons & the reasons they exist is why.
The limits apply for both motorways & urban roads (& country roads too), again for more than one reason.
vonhosen said:
cmaguire said:
vonhosen said:
Matters least?
To who?
You?
What is the reason speed limits should not be exceeded? Is it more or less wrong to exceed the limit on the Motorway rather than an urban street?To who?
You?
Wherever they exist we aren't supposed to be exceeding them, hence the legislation & sanctions for doing so.
AVV EM said:
RobXjcoupe said:
Pay by cheque but add an extra penny.
The cheque will never get cashed but the noticed will be received and be acknowledged as paid. It's a glitch in the payment system
Does this actually work? Or will they catch on to you and slap you with a bigger fineThe cheque will never get cashed but the noticed will be received and be acknowledged as paid. It's a glitch in the payment system
No, of course it doesn't work. It just gets referred to court - it's a ridiculous myth.
vonhosen said:
Pete317 said:
vonhosen said:
Pete317 said:
vonhosen said:
ACPO guidelines were that they'd expect that people would have been reported by the time they got 10% + 2mph over the limit unless there were exceptional circumstances.
You're right that often gets ignored & people don't get reported for speeds beyond that.
As in my reply to singlecoil above - try reading the rest of the document, like sect 1.1 for example.You're right that often gets ignored & people don't get reported for speeds beyond that.
Only a very small part of the guidelines deals with enforcement thresholds, but that's apparently the only bit you guys see.
(Even though ACPO guidelines are defunct, ACPO doesn't exist).
But as you don't have a beef with any of it, then it surely doesn't matter to you.
vonhosen said:
I did.
You asked what is 'the' reason the limit shouldn't be exceeded. The answer is there isn't one ('the') reason. That's why I said they exist for many reasons & the reasons they exist is why.
The limits apply for both motorways & urban roads (& country roads too), again for more than one reason.
No you didn't.You asked what is 'the' reason the limit shouldn't be exceeded. The answer is there isn't one ('the') reason. That's why I said they exist for many reasons & the reasons they exist is why.
The limits apply for both motorways & urban roads (& country roads too), again for more than one reason.
Is this a pantomime?
jm doc said:
perhaps that makes you a sheep
Perhaps it doesn't? Fair comment if you unquestioningly do as you're told, which my post covered in the opposite pretty explicitly!I'd describe my position as pragmatic; I know there need to be rules of the road, I don't always follow them, I 'fess up if I'm caught bang to rights.
cmaguire said:
vonhosen said:
I did.
You asked what is 'the' reason the limit shouldn't be exceeded. The answer is there isn't one ('the') reason. That's why I said they exist for many reasons & the reasons they exist is why.
The limits apply for both motorways & urban roads (& country roads too), again for more than one reason.
No you didn't.You asked what is 'the' reason the limit shouldn't be exceeded. The answer is there isn't one ('the') reason. That's why I said they exist for many reasons & the reasons they exist is why.
The limits apply for both motorways & urban roads (& country roads too), again for more than one reason.
Is this a pantomime?
cmaguire said:
What is the reason speed limits should not be exceeded?
The same reason they exist for (which are multiple different reasons, therefore there isn't a 'the reason')cmaguire said:
Is it more or less wrong to exceed the limit on the Motorway rather than an urban street?
That's a daft question, simply exceeding the limit is simply exceeding the limit wherever it is.I don't know your motive (what you are trying to get at) behind such a daft question, but I guess as you were talking about motorways being our safest roads so I guess it's along those lines.
Degrees of wrong from such a simple statement don't come into it, because each case is to be dealt with on it's own merits/facts.
The potential consequences of bad outcomes (collisions) on different road types can be different things (i.e. wrongness or outcomes aren't measured in isolation relative to each road type with regard to only one factor & therefore it isn't only one consequence of a bad outcome that it is desirable to avoid - limits after all exist to assist with avoiding numerous adverse outcomes/consequences).
The challenge is about the basic premise of speed limits. Do we think that we could have roads without speed limits? Seems unlikely. So we are stuck with them. As people are quite happy to exceed them (and always have been), then we need to have a way of dissuading ourselves from so doing.
Speed limits are a very broad risk reduction mechanism, so it is pretty much always going to feel unfair when we get penalised for one instance. This is because we have a thought process justifying to ourselves (very naturally) why it was unfair, why I was not unsafe, how I am a better driver than the average and it must be about some more devious thing - scamming, making money, persecution and so on.
So anyway, I digress. I think there is one core reason for speed limits. Risk reduction. And probably loads of ancillary ones.
And yes I'm just the same as every proper PH'er...I hate limits, scamera vans and all that. I am a far better driver than average!
Bert
Speed limits are a very broad risk reduction mechanism, so it is pretty much always going to feel unfair when we get penalised for one instance. This is because we have a thought process justifying to ourselves (very naturally) why it was unfair, why I was not unsafe, how I am a better driver than the average and it must be about some more devious thing - scamming, making money, persecution and so on.
So anyway, I digress. I think there is one core reason for speed limits. Risk reduction. And probably loads of ancillary ones.
And yes I'm just the same as every proper PH'er...I hate limits, scamera vans and all that. I am a far better driver than average!
Bert
bad company said:
Excuse me if I missed something but do we know if the NIP was properly issued ie within the 14 day period?
Sorry for bringing the thread back onto topic.
A key question which could well have brought this thread to a close was asked shortly after the thread was started.Sorry for bringing the thread back onto topic.
Seems a bit strange that the OP hasn't been back since.
SS2. said:
bad company said:
Excuse me if I missed something but do we know if the NIP was properly issued ie within the 14 day period?
Sorry for bringing the thread back onto topic.
A key question which could well have brought this thread to a close was asked shortly after the thread was started.Sorry for bringing the thread back onto topic.
Seems a bit strange that the OP hasn't been back since.
1) The "10% + 2" leniency is not something that has to be applied (but in theory 10%+2 is the point at which the minimum course of action is a FPN)
2) If the OP's name is on the V5c (and not a lease company, or a previous owner etc), and they haven't recently changed the address on the V5c, then the FPN wasn't served in time, and the OP should go down that avenue in their response - whilst being careful to check if they do still need to supply the name of the driver or not (regardless of whether the speeding charge would fail due to late service of the FPN).
Still, let's get this back off-topic...
pim said:
Just pay the fine and get on with your live.
At this stage he hasn't been 'fined', nor has he been given the offer of a fine or SAC.And until he comes back with a couple of answers, it's impossible to say whether there's a statutory defence available as an alternative to rolling over.
SS2. said:
GetCarter said:
Can I just point out that the only relevant point to this thread is that the O/P can contest and will win.
Has the OP confirmed whose name is on the V5C yet ?But yeah, the only argument that the OP may have is procedural impropriety if the NIP was sent to the RK after 14 days, however in the thousands of NIPs that I have on record for our fleet, I can only think of that happening on two or three occasions, and even then they were a brand new vehicle and DVLA were not up to date.
It's a good thing it wasn't North Wales - 68 in a 60 is still a capital offence up there!
S11Steve said:
But yeah, the only argument that the OP may have is procedural impropriety if the NIP was sent to the RK after 14 days, however in the thousands of NIPs that I have on record for our fleet, I can only think of that happening on two or three occasions, and even then they were a brand new vehicle and DVLA were not up to date.
Quite, and I certainly know where my money would go if I had to bet on whether or not the NIP was subject to valid service.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff