90% of police time spent filling in forms !!!!
Discussion
According to Bob Quick, CC of Surrey (www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/20/ncops20.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/03/20/ixportaltop.html) ... supporting Steve Green, CC of Nottinghamshire (www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=162441&f=10&h=0).
Isn't it f
king stupid! No wonder that crime detection is only 19% (www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=161905&f=10&h=0).
Streaky
Isn't it f
king stupid! No wonder that crime detection is only 19% (www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=161905&f=10&h=0). Streaky
Yesterday, I started my shift at 14.00. I briefed my team who were out and patrolling or dealing with the 59 inherited jobs from the morning shift by 14.15.
At 14.20 after putting away briefing files etc I sat at my desk and started to monitor the forms that my team have to complete as it is getting towards the end of the financial year and ends need tying!
At 18.30 I prepared my meal in the coffee station microwave and made a cup of coffee which took 10 minutes. I ate my jacket potato and Tuna at my desk with paperwork strewn around me allocating more of the jobs that control room ould not resource to my team. I did not move from that position until 22.45 hours, my shift supposed to have finished at 22.00.
This sort of situation happens day in day out. I have been working in a supervisory role now for 6 weeks. I have managed to get out on patrol for part of 3 shifts in that time and they were night shifts where I decided the admin could wait!
This is not uncommon. My team are snowed under with performance data to collect and record as well as try to deal with the increasing workload such as callers who report that their 15 year old sister pulled her hair! Once that is on the control log it is allocated a crime complaint number and has to be investigated otherwise the Audit think we are trying to cuff the crime of assault if we do not give it the proper and full works of investigation!
I think the comment about 90% of police time filling in forms is a little exagerated but it will certainly be above 75%. Certainly for supervisors it is probably more than 90% when the core task should be actively supporting and supervising teams on the streets!
At 14.20 after putting away briefing files etc I sat at my desk and started to monitor the forms that my team have to complete as it is getting towards the end of the financial year and ends need tying!
At 18.30 I prepared my meal in the coffee station microwave and made a cup of coffee which took 10 minutes. I ate my jacket potato and Tuna at my desk with paperwork strewn around me allocating more of the jobs that control room ould not resource to my team. I did not move from that position until 22.45 hours, my shift supposed to have finished at 22.00.
This sort of situation happens day in day out. I have been working in a supervisory role now for 6 weeks. I have managed to get out on patrol for part of 3 shifts in that time and they were night shifts where I decided the admin could wait!
This is not uncommon. My team are snowed under with performance data to collect and record as well as try to deal with the increasing workload such as callers who report that their 15 year old sister pulled her hair! Once that is on the control log it is allocated a crime complaint number and has to be investigated otherwise the Audit think we are trying to cuff the crime of assault if we do not give it the proper and full works of investigation!
I think the comment about 90% of police time filling in forms is a little exagerated but it will certainly be above 75%. Certainly for supervisors it is probably more than 90% when the core task should be actively supporting and supervising teams on the streets!
gone said:
Yesterday, I started my shift at 14.00. I briefed my team who were out and patrolling or dealing with the 59 inherited jobs from the morning shift by 14.15.
At 14.20 after putting away briefing files etc I sat at my desk and started to monitor the forms that my team have to complete as it is getting towards the end of the financial year and ends need tying!
At 18.30 I prepared my meal in the coffee station microwave and made a cup of coffee which took 10 minutes. I ate my jacket potato and Tuna at my desk with paperwork strewn around me allocating more of the jobs that control room ould not resource to my team. I did not move from that position until 22.45 hours, my shift supposed to have finished at 22.00.
This sort of situation happens day in day out. I have been working in a supervisory role now for 6 weeks. I have managed to get out on patrol for part of 3 shifts in that time and they were night shifts where I decided the admin could wait!
This is not uncommon. My team are snowed under with performance data to collect and record as well as try to deal with the increasing workload such as callers who report that their 15 year old sister pulled her hair! Once that is on the control log it is allocated a crime complaint number and has to be investigated otherwise the Audit think we are trying to cuff the crime of assault if we do not give it the proper and full works of investigation!
I think the comment about 90% of police time filling in forms is a little exagerated but it will certainly be above 75%. Certainly for supervisors it is probably more than 90% when the core task should be actively supporting and supervising teams on the streets!
So basically in your last shift you did no actual "Police work" at all, nor did you provide any actual support (beyond checking forms) to the people you are supposed to be supervising - apart from the initial briefing ?
What a waste !
You have my sympathy ; we have similar performance data and form filling, 99% of it has no use whatsoever but allows one of the numerous inspectorates etc to tick a few boxes.
Its real beneficiary is of course Nulabor who can tout out the performance data as if it means anything to try and gets themselves a few more votes.
Depends on the job the BiB is doing...ie: beat, CID, traffic etc....
Beat bobbies do far more paperwork than I do....they have more statements to write, more crime reports to fill out, more minority/racial incident forms, domestic violence reporting sheets, missing person forms, requests for vehicles to be examined etc etc...
My paperwork is fixed penalty tickets, Report on Summons forms (pro-forma, ie: just fill in the blanks with the relevant info)...and any of the normal paperwork relating to an arrest...statements, case summary, information for CPS, etc etc....
There is paperwork in all aspects of police work, just some more than others. However, I think the duplication of information on several sheets and more is a problem that needs to be sorted out..
Beat bobbies do far more paperwork than I do....they have more statements to write, more crime reports to fill out, more minority/racial incident forms, domestic violence reporting sheets, missing person forms, requests for vehicles to be examined etc etc...
My paperwork is fixed penalty tickets, Report on Summons forms (pro-forma, ie: just fill in the blanks with the relevant info)...and any of the normal paperwork relating to an arrest...statements, case summary, information for CPS, etc etc....
There is paperwork in all aspects of police work, just some more than others. However, I think the duplication of information on several sheets and more is a problem that needs to be sorted out..
gone said:
My team are snowed under with performance data to collect and record as well as try to deal with the increasing workload such as callers who report that their 15 year old sister pulled her hair!
Do you ever push charges for wasting police time in these cases? I'm casing that the extra paperwork involved is just not worth it?
MR2Mike said:
My team are snowed under with performance data to collect and record as well as try to deal with the increasing workload such as callers who report that their 15 year old sister pulled her hair!
Do you ever push charges for wasting police time in these cases? I'm casing that the extra paperwork involved is just not worth it?
Nope...CPS wont take 'em. A crime is a crime nowadays...and will be investigated as such..regardless of time and cost...
Ridiculous....really it..
You see the future is obvious. The MOD now have as many adminstrivia specialists as the UK has soldiers, airmen and sailors.
The police will end up the same way unless we start to vote for independant politicians who have no affiliation to the main three administrivia clubs. The civil service is exactly like a cancer it consumes all and contributes nothing. Most public sector workers care deeply about what they do. Almost uniquely in this country we have an incorruptable administration that will spend our last penny finding where our last penny went.
Shame, I would prefer bribes its cheaper in the long run.
The police will end up the same way unless we start to vote for independant politicians who have no affiliation to the main three administrivia clubs. The civil service is exactly like a cancer it consumes all and contributes nothing. Most public sector workers care deeply about what they do. Almost uniquely in this country we have an incorruptable administration that will spend our last penny finding where our last penny went.
Shame, I would prefer bribes its cheaper in the long run.
Like the 300+ percent tax on fuel, high admin costs in the future are unsustainable, that's why they've got us to do our own admin. Only that means they need twice as many of us now, to cope in our job! MMmmh! Only they've just cut our numbers in half to: save money, and it's us who are the "front line" and keep the place running. Isn't "accountancy world" wonderful?
But, what the accountant doesn't see is: how effective is the resultant job? Well, that doesn't have a price does it, so...........it's invisable!....at least to them! It is THEY that live in La-La land!
Witness the governments stated desire to reduce civil servants and move the rest out of "expensive" London to cheaper provincial areas, just thank the lord it isn't India. Yet!
To engage others who are cheaper to do "police work". Scameras, Parking wardens, Plastic policemen. It's called Capitalism. Like they said to the miners 20 yrs ago, "If you don't like it, better get off the boat". No-one owes you a job! Someone else will do it cheaper. No-one forced you to do this job. Remember?
No matter who we vote for: It's still the same engineman who's drivin' the train. Even though someone else now owns it! What a way to run a railway?
Accountants and Lawyers should be Servants, not DRIVERS! Imagine Victorian Britain with these people in control! Would ANYTHING have got done? GRRRRrrrr!!! I despair!!!
>> Edited by 8Pack on Monday 21st March 02:55
But, what the accountant doesn't see is: how effective is the resultant job? Well, that doesn't have a price does it, so...........it's invisable!....at least to them! It is THEY that live in La-La land!
Witness the governments stated desire to reduce civil servants and move the rest out of "expensive" London to cheaper provincial areas, just thank the lord it isn't India. Yet!
To engage others who are cheaper to do "police work". Scameras, Parking wardens, Plastic policemen. It's called Capitalism. Like they said to the miners 20 yrs ago, "If you don't like it, better get off the boat". No-one owes you a job! Someone else will do it cheaper. No-one forced you to do this job. Remember?
No matter who we vote for: It's still the same engineman who's drivin' the train. Even though someone else now owns it! What a way to run a railway?
Accountants and Lawyers should be Servants, not DRIVERS! Imagine Victorian Britain with these people in control! Would ANYTHING have got done? GRRRRrrrr!!! I despair!!!
>> Edited by 8Pack on Monday 21st March 02:55
I note that Bob Quick is REDUCING the number of BiB so as to put more of them into the 'front line'! Now that has to take some prize for perverted logic. The government's, that is, not BQ's ... he's doing the best he can with an idiotic funding system.
And on the 'administration' and 'assistance' front, he is piloting a scheme whereby each DC is supported by 'assistants'.
Quoted in the Sunday Telegraph, BQ said, "For example, a detective constable on our mixed economy pilot has a team of three assistants and one administrative assistant. Now the detective spends all of his or her time determining what the lines of inquiry and the best leads are, determining what forensic resources will be used, and delegating these tasks out to that team of auxiliaries.
The detective will do the very high-skilled ones, so if there is some forensic intervention or if someone is to be arrested the detective does that, because only the detective has got the coercive powers of arrest and detention and so forth."
Now, it isn't clear whether each and every DC has his (or her) own team of four assistants. If he (or she) is, that in itself is a clear indictment of the bureaucracy in the present system! FWIW, the highest level of 'assistance' I have ever enjoyed - for some 150 reports - was a half share in a secretary and a couple of trainees - when they weren't in the 'field' or at 'school'. And if DCs get four 'assistants', how many do DSs get, or DIs, or ... ?
Streaky
PS - did you note the use of the term "mixed economy team" ... WTF has that to do with policing? It's 'management-speak' - typical of the infection in the force (sorry, 'service') that has ruined policing in this country - S
>> Edited by streaky on Monday 21st March 07:36
And on the 'administration' and 'assistance' front, he is piloting a scheme whereby each DC is supported by 'assistants'.
Quoted in the Sunday Telegraph, BQ said, "For example, a detective constable on our mixed economy pilot has a team of three assistants and one administrative assistant. Now the detective spends all of his or her time determining what the lines of inquiry and the best leads are, determining what forensic resources will be used, and delegating these tasks out to that team of auxiliaries.
The detective will do the very high-skilled ones, so if there is some forensic intervention or if someone is to be arrested the detective does that, because only the detective has got the coercive powers of arrest and detention and so forth."
Now, it isn't clear whether each and every DC has his (or her) own team of four assistants. If he (or she) is, that in itself is a clear indictment of the bureaucracy in the present system! FWIW, the highest level of 'assistance' I have ever enjoyed - for some 150 reports - was a half share in a secretary and a couple of trainees - when they weren't in the 'field' or at 'school'. And if DCs get four 'assistants', how many do DSs get, or DIs, or ... ?
Streaky
PS - did you note the use of the term "mixed economy team" ... WTF has that to do with policing? It's 'management-speak' - typical of the infection in the force (sorry, 'service') that has ruined policing in this country - S
>> Edited by streaky on Monday 21st March 07:36
Interesting post, but unless my force is radically different to anywhere else, I think these admin time claims are exaggerated. E.g. Friday amd Saturday night shifts. The night turn all go out of foot patrol in the town centre from 2200 until approx. 0300. The shift is 10 hours - 21-07. So that's 40% on patrol for a start, plus most Officers will go out again, depending on the arrests made, enquiries to do etc...
I also task my team to do foot and cycle patrols in target areas, and these are usually successful, leading to reductions in non-dwelling burglary and car crime.
Part of the problem, is that when I joined computers played less of a role, so whilst you were out ON PATROL, I filled out my crime reports, intel logs, missing person reports etc.... I could walk in the nick, throw them in the respective pigeon hole, do an about turn and walk back out to my car. Now things have to be registered and working sheets added on the computer. What it boils down to is the Police Service have not dragged themselves into the 21st century with mobile communications yet.
I also task my team to do foot and cycle patrols in target areas, and these are usually successful, leading to reductions in non-dwelling burglary and car crime.
Part of the problem, is that when I joined computers played less of a role, so whilst you were out ON PATROL, I filled out my crime reports, intel logs, missing person reports etc.... I could walk in the nick, throw them in the respective pigeon hole, do an about turn and walk back out to my car. Now things have to be registered and working sheets added on the computer. What it boils down to is the Police Service have not dragged themselves into the 21st century with mobile communications yet.
I have spent over a year and a half as an acting Sgt on our group.
As gone says, once you have trawled through the jobs to hand out that have been inherited, then you have to attempt to deal with those that arrive.
Plus deal with the emergencies that present themselves.
It is a part of the job that no-one enjoys, but unfortunately have to be completed, and completed correctly. If a file has to be submitted, it is my job to check it thoroughly prior to it being sent to the cps. This takes time, time takes officers off the street.
Trust me, we aren't sat round eating doughnuts.....
we go out to do that.
As gone says, once you have trawled through the jobs to hand out that have been inherited, then you have to attempt to deal with those that arrive.
Plus deal with the emergencies that present themselves.
It is a part of the job that no-one enjoys, but unfortunately have to be completed, and completed correctly. If a file has to be submitted, it is my job to check it thoroughly prior to it being sent to the cps. This takes time, time takes officers off the street.
Trust me, we aren't sat round eating doughnuts.....
we go out to do that.
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