Non-molestation order
Discussion
PurpleMoonlight said:
Contact centers are great.
Mother will fail to turn up, child ill, got time wrong, booked a last minute holiday, mother ill etc.
All after driving 100 miles each time.
To be blunt, on the whole the system is f
ked for fathers without the mothers cooperation.
I genuinely didn't believe it was as biased as people made out.... until now!!!Mother will fail to turn up, child ill, got time wrong, booked a last minute holiday, mother ill etc.
All after driving 100 miles each time.
To be blunt, on the whole the system is f
ked for fathers without the mothers cooperation.This sounds very familiar (my neighbour, not me).
A link that may help with advice and support - https://fnf.org.uk/ - because solicitors only help with certain matters.
Wise up on "parental alienation". There are noises that CAFCASS is finally beginning to see it as child abuse: http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2017/02/13/parental-...
Good luck
A link that may help with advice and support - https://fnf.org.uk/ - because solicitors only help with certain matters.
Wise up on "parental alienation". There are noises that CAFCASS is finally beginning to see it as child abuse: http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2017/02/13/parental-...
Good luck
SickFish said:
Great post... thank you.
Whilst a contact centre would be demeaning and is not ideal, considering I used to have her stay at mine...!!! at least I'll be able to see my daughter!
I feel your pain, my ex willingly bought my daughter to mine three days a week. Then I met someone new. All contact stopped instantly, allegations were made and I had to go through the courts. When I eventually saw my girl again, in a contact centre, she didn't know who I was.Whilst a contact centre would be demeaning and is not ideal, considering I used to have her stay at mine...!!! at least I'll be able to see my daughter!
I'm now several years down the line, the woman I met has been my wife for nearly four years and my daughter has a wonderful relationship with both of us. So much so that she want's to do something special for my wife on Mother's day.
Amused2death said:
SickFish said:
Great post... thank you.
Whilst a contact centre would be demeaning and is not ideal, considering I used to have her stay at mine...!!! at least I'll be able to see my daughter!
I feel your pain, my ex willingly bought my daughter to mine three days a week. Then I met someone new. All contact stopped instantly, allegations were made and I had to go through the courts. When I eventually saw my girl again, in a contact centre, she didn't know who I was.Whilst a contact centre would be demeaning and is not ideal, considering I used to have her stay at mine...!!! at least I'll be able to see my daughter!
I'm now several years down the line, the woman I met has been my wife for nearly four years and my daughter has a wonderful relationship with both of us. So much so that she want's to do something special for my wife on Mother's day.
Escapegoat said:
This sounds very familiar (my neighbour, not me).
A link that may help with advice and support - https://fnf.org.uk/ - because solicitors only help with certain matters.
Wise up on "parental alienation". There are noises that CAFCASS is finally beginning to see it as child abuse: http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2017/02/13/parental-...
Good luck
Thank you A link that may help with advice and support - https://fnf.org.uk/ - because solicitors only help with certain matters.
Wise up on "parental alienation". There are noises that CAFCASS is finally beginning to see it as child abuse: http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2017/02/13/parental-...
Good luck
SickFish said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Contact centers are great.
Mother will fail to turn up, child ill, got time wrong, booked a last minute holiday, mother ill etc.
All after driving 100 miles each time.
To be blunt, on the whole the system is fked for fathers without the mothers cooperation.
I genuinely didn't believe it was as biased as people made out.... until now!!!Mother will fail to turn up, child ill, got time wrong, booked a last minute holiday, mother ill etc.
All after driving 100 miles each time.
To be blunt, on the whole the system is f
ked for fathers without the mothers cooperation.A lot of men in this situation get all sweary and angry and it really helps nobody - certainly not themselves.
One of the main flaws with the current system is that there are zero ramifications for the mother who manufactures a web of lies about their ex-partner. If found out they receive nothing but an occasional telling off by a judge so have nothing to lose by painting a picture of a monster. What's as bad is that their falsehoods are too easily believed too many times.
SickFish said:
Sounds like a great outcome... although I think if my little girl didn't recognise me it would destroy me
It did me, and it took several "contacts" before she called me "Daddy"It will be worth it for you eventually, and more importantly it'll be worth it for your child. Be strong, play the "game" of the courts and all it's systems and one day you'll look back and know you did the right thing.
As someone else has mentioned above, don't get shouty and demanding...it'll be used against you!
Christmassss said:
If you haven't been too mediation, i would imagine that the judge will suggest/advise this is the best course of action.
You won't get to see a judge/magistrate without having been to mediation these days.MrJingles705 said:
Christmassss said:
Cafcass will get involved and will hear both sides of the story and then put a report together for the judge.
Your experience of cafcass appears to be different than my friends; they were next to useless. He still is working through a complaint with them based on their report, given they did not speak to even the older (teenage) child.Rude-boy said:
He therefore started a diary/collection. Pictures, notes, letters, presents and cards for birthdays and Christmases were all bought and collated. Even his new partner and their child (when a little older) would sign these. As they knew they would never get anywhere near the daughter if sent they were all kept nice and safe.
Similar here:I split up from my ex before we knew she was preggars, had a really good relationship with her paid her well, even came to live with me for a while while she sorted some stuff out.
Met my current wife when my son was 2 and we married about 5 years ago - since then its all gone pear shaped, she's kept him from me for the past 5 years and i've done the same this as above, breaks my heart every time i go into his bedroom and see it all but have 3 more years to wait till he's 18 - hopefully he'll see sense before then.
CMS have reemed me and buggered me over to the point where they had to pay me compensation and also went through the Cafcass/court route to get access but at 15 his minds so twisted i think that he doesnt want to see me and the courts cannot enforce it.
Hughesie said:
Christmassss said:
If you haven't been too mediation, i would imagine that the judge will suggest/advise this is the best course of action.
You won't get to see a judge/magistrate without having been to mediation these days.You may well be correct there, My Partner and her Ex has been to mediation 12 months prior, and then when it all broke down again we just had to get the mediator to sign something on the Court forms so they didn't have to go to mediation again.
The system is a joke. Its needs a human to look at these cases in the early stages. So many of them seem to be that the partner has a new girlfriend and all of a sudden contact is withdrawn and allegations are made.
Sorry but 99.9% of the time that is clearly a jealous ex gone psycho. Doesn't take more than a cursory check to see that. Yet the system is incapable of seeing that and putting a stop to it.
Sorry but 99.9% of the time that is clearly a jealous ex gone psycho. Doesn't take more than a cursory check to see that. Yet the system is incapable of seeing that and putting a stop to it.
Christmassss said:
You won't get to see a judge/magistrate without having been to mediation these days.
You may well be correct there, My Partner and her Ex has been to mediation 12 months prior, and then when it all broke down again we just had to get the mediator to sign something on the Court forms so they didn't have to go to mediation again.
You aren't allowed to file for an agreement order in the family court until you have attended mediation. When I applied for mediation, the other party refused, thereby allowing the mediator to produce me a form which in turn allowed me to file a petition to the court. As far as I remember the form they gave me was called an 'F1'.You may well be correct there, My Partner and her Ex has been to mediation 12 months prior, and then when it all broke down again we just had to get the mediator to sign something on the Court forms so they didn't have to go to mediation again.
I'm glad it went that way, an agreement drawn up by a mediator is worth even less than a court order. At least a court order can be enforced to a certain degree. Mediation is also expensive and ultimately doesn't really work in a lot of cases - certainly not this one by the sound of it.
You can also refuse mediation - I wouldn't worry about it looking bad if you do. The judge will realise why once he has seen the whole case and lead up to it.
bmw535i said:
You aren't allowed to file for an agreement order in the family court until you have attended mediation. When I applied for mediation, the other party refused, thereby allowing the mediator to produce me a form which in turn allowed me to file a petition to the court. As far as I remember the form they gave me was called an 'F1'.
I'm glad it went that way, an agreement drawn up by a mediator is worth even less than a court order. At least a court order can be enforced to a certain degree. Mediation is also expensive and ultimately doesn't really work in a lot of cases - certainly not this one by the sound of it.
You can also refuse mediation - I wouldn't worry about it looking bad if you do. The judge will realise why once he has seen the whole case and lead up to it.
Not exactly true, there are a number of reasons that a MIAM exemption can be accepted so you can straight to court...one of those reasons is that you want to go straight to court without giving forewarning to the other party! The Form was an FM1. I filled one out for my partner about 3 months ago I'm glad it went that way, an agreement drawn up by a mediator is worth even less than a court order. At least a court order can be enforced to a certain degree. Mediation is also expensive and ultimately doesn't really work in a lot of cases - certainly not this one by the sound of it.
You can also refuse mediation - I wouldn't worry about it looking bad if you do. The judge will realise why once he has seen the whole case and lead up to it.
Agree about mediation being a joke though, my partners Ex came out of the meeting and said 'well that was a joke, i dont have to do f**k all that she said'
Christmassss said:
Not exactly true, there are a number of reasons that a MIAM exemption can be accepted so you can straight to court...one of those reasons is that you want to go straight to court without giving forewarning to the other party! The Form was an FM1. I filled one out for my partner about 3 months ago
Agree about mediation being a joke though, my partners Ex came out of the meeting and said 'well that was a joke, i dont have to do f**k all that she said'
Fair one - it was some years ago I went through it. You can go straight to court for the reason of not wanting the other party to know, but there are reasons you have to give for that - can't remember what they are. There are several other exemptions to requiring a MIAM assessment - I can't remember them though (domestic violence perhaps? bankruptcy?) - not sure, but this particular case appears not to have any of those ingredients.Agree about mediation being a joke though, my partners Ex came out of the meeting and said 'well that was a joke, i dont have to do f**k all that she said'
bmw535i said:
Fair one - it was some years ago I went through it. You can go straight to court for the reason of not wanting the other party to know, but there are reasons you have to give for that - can't remember what they are. There are several other exemptions to requiring a MIAM assessment - I can't remember them though (domestic violence perhaps? bankruptcy?) - not sure, but this particular case appears not to have any of those ingredients.
Yeah, domestic violence is one. I think the OP's ex has tried accusing him of that, but to get the MIAM exemption for that you have to provide evidence. There are about other 14 reasons i think.Either way, i hope that the OP gets it sorted ASAP as it isn't a nice situation.
Christmassss said:
bmw535i said:
Fair one - it was some years ago I went through it. You can go straight to court for the reason of not wanting the other party to know, but there are reasons you have to give for that - can't remember what they are. There are several other exemptions to requiring a MIAM assessment - I can't remember them though (domestic violence perhaps? bankruptcy?) - not sure, but this particular case appears not to have any of those ingredients.
Yeah, domestic violence is one. I think the OP's ex has tried accusing him of that, but to get the MIAM exemption for that you have to provide evidence. There are about other 14 reasons i think.Either way, i hope that the OP gets it sorted ASAP as it isn't a nice situation.
Cold said:
One of the main flaws with the current system is that there are zero ramifications for the mother who manufactures a web of lies about their ex-partner. If found out they receive nothing but an occasional telling off by a judge so have nothing to lose by painting a picture of a monster. What's as bad is that their falsehoods are too easily believed too many times.
There is hope that some judges are seeing through the mud slinging that some women use to further their personal agenda.http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2017/03/23/girl-must...
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/36.ht...
As for defying a court order, those that do should be made unequivocally aware that they face a very real prospect of sanctions for contempt.
How that could be reconciled with the primary duty of the child's welfare is a thorny problem but it needs to be tackled to prevent vindictive ex-partners gaming the sysytem.
Cold said:
One of the main flaws with the current system is that there are zero ramifications for the mother who manufactures a web of lies about their ex-partner. If found out they receive nothing but an occasional telling off by a judge so have nothing to lose by painting a picture of a monster. What's as bad is that their falsehoods are too easily believed too many times.
The lawmakers probably have no idea what it's like to be at the receiving end.Unfortunately, where strong emotions are involved, all rationality and sense of fair play go out of the window
Rude-boy said:
The one thing that i always think with these situations is that the mums must be utterly deluded.
I have always wondered if this happened in real life and then met a chap a few months back who told me their story.
They had split up from the wife 10 years or so beforehand and the wife had, after a few months, taken the daughter 200+ miles away and refused all contact with their child, ignoring the court, and generally with his lack of resources, leaving him with no hope of being actively involved with his child. He therefore started a diary/collection. Pictures, notes, letters, presents and cards for birthdays and Christmases were all bought and collated. Even his new partner and their child (when a little older) would sign these. As they knew they would never get anywhere near the daughter if sent they were all kept nice and safe.
As luck would have it the chap also had friends in the area the ex moved to and they were able to occasionally report back to him how the daughter was getting on, including where she worked.
On her 18th Birthday he sent the whole package to her works address. He spoke to his daughter for the first time in nearly 10 years the day after. She had always hoped that one day he would try to find her and had never been fully 'on message' with the mothers poison and side of the story.
Daughter has now cut off all contact with mother and has moved this way to be closer to her dad and to try to make up for some lost time.
A general point, not specific to this thread at all. I think the scale of this issue - fathers being denied access to their kids / kids having their right of access to their father denied is an abuse scandal which will only dawn on society in a few decades time. When it does, the consensus will be 'how the hell did we let this happen?'. An utter tragedy.I have always wondered if this happened in real life and then met a chap a few months back who told me their story.
They had split up from the wife 10 years or so beforehand and the wife had, after a few months, taken the daughter 200+ miles away and refused all contact with their child, ignoring the court, and generally with his lack of resources, leaving him with no hope of being actively involved with his child. He therefore started a diary/collection. Pictures, notes, letters, presents and cards for birthdays and Christmases were all bought and collated. Even his new partner and their child (when a little older) would sign these. As they knew they would never get anywhere near the daughter if sent they were all kept nice and safe.
As luck would have it the chap also had friends in the area the ex moved to and they were able to occasionally report back to him how the daughter was getting on, including where she worked.
On her 18th Birthday he sent the whole package to her works address. He spoke to his daughter for the first time in nearly 10 years the day after. She had always hoped that one day he would try to find her and had never been fully 'on message' with the mothers poison and side of the story.
Daughter has now cut off all contact with mother and has moved this way to be closer to her dad and to try to make up for some lost time.
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