Notice of Intended Prosecution recieved

[nichio3478]

Morning all,

Cry for help. I've recieved an NIP for doing 42 in a 20 mph zone.

The 20mph zone is part of Lambeth's new blanket application of a 20 mph speed limit within the borough regardless of road type. This was on Kennington Road which is a very wide (4 lane) uncongested road.

The location specified where the offense took place is desribed as:-

Kennington Road at the junction with Wincot Square.

I've checked on google maps and there is no Wincot square, there is Wincott Street and Walcott Square. Does this make the notice invalid?

The other question is that on the form there is the opportunity to dispute the info given. I would be delighted to walk away from this with 3 points fixed penalty, would disputing the information in the form prejudice that?

Thanks

[HantsRat]

Won't make a difference. It's just a small admin error, they will be able to prove where your car was.

At that speed you will most likely receive a court summons as a ban is possible. I doubt an offer of 3 points + £100 will be made as it's 110% over the speed limit. Equivalent of 147mph on a motorway.

You will be looking at up to 6 points + fine or a short ban.

[HantsRat]

Also just looked on Google maps. It is only a 2 lane usable road but with a bus lane either side.

[55palfers]

Hmmm.

Even if it were still a 30 zone - that's a good bit over the limit for a built up area.

Why were you speeding?

[Far Cough]

I would argue that if they cannot get the location correct that it calls into doubt any other info including the speed. You may have been doing 22 (playing devils advocate)... If you are expected to be 100% correct then they have to be the same.

[HantsRat]

Was it this fixed camera or a mobile van?

[nichio3478]

Thanks, i thought as much.

I went there this morning and there are still some of the old 30mph signs still up alongside the 20mph signs. It all a bit confusing!

I was on a motorbike although i dont believe that makes any difference.

[nichio3478]

I think it must have been a mobile van as it was 8.50 in the morning and i would have been heading the other way.

[nichio3478]

[HantsRat]

If I recall. All of Lambeths roads are 20mph.

[xjay1337]

nichio3478 said:

Thanks, i thought as much.

I went there this morning and there are still some of the old 30mph signs still up alongside the 20mph signs. It all a bit confusing!

I was on a motorbike although i dont believe that makes any difference.

The only thing I can think of is take photographs of the 30 MPH signs , generally the lower limit would apply in the case of multiple signs but it may help your case. 42 in a 30 is better than 42 in a 20

[Mandat]

HantsRat said:

Also just looked on Google maps. It is only a 2 lane usable road but with a bus lane either side.

It is still a 4 lane road despite the bus lanes.

Also, the bus lanes are usable by all traffic outside the hours of operation.

[zedx19]

Not that it helps, but I got caught doing 44mph in a 30mph, genuinely thought it was a 40mph limit and it's my first offence since passing my test 18 years ago. I got 3 points and 100 quid fine, however in a 20mph limit you're likely to get more point and a bigger fine.

[Retroman]

Far Cough said:

I would argue that if they cannot get the location correct that it calls into doubt any other info including the speed. You may have been doing 22 (playing devils advocate)... If you are expected to be 100% correct then they have to be the same.

People try this type of defence all the time and it almost always fails.

The only "real" defense the OP would have in court is if they could produce evidence / persuade the judge they weren't doing the alleged speed.

[Engineer792]

That road certainly doesn't look like it should have a 20mph limit.

If there was little or no other traffic around, you couldn't realistically say that even as much as 40mph would really be pushing it, and so 20mph would be an agonisingly slow crawl.

But of course our masters know best.

[kiethton]

If there are both 20 & 30 signs are showing I'd firstly take photo's pronto and then look into the legalities.

Was talking about this same situation (but Lewisham) with my DAS instructor who was ex-trafpol back in January, he said that if both signs are showing/there is ambiguity then NSL applies? - don't know how true that is though

As others have said, these 20mph zones are absolutely riduculous, no way should that road be one....thing is setting a blanket 20 limit just lowers the status of those attached to genuine needs e.g. schools. We have them in Lewisham, generally results in a queue behind learners/others obeying and then a chain of cars overtaking, some more safely than others and within what was a 30 zone

Edited by kiethton on Thursday 6th April 13:05

[Engineer792]

kiethton said:

If there are both 20 & 30 signs are showing I'd firstly take photo's pronto and then look into the legalities.

Was talking about this same situation (but Lewisham) with my DAS instructor who was ex-trafpol back in January, he said that if both signs are showing/there is ambiguity then NSL applies? - don't know how true that is though

As others have said, these 20mph zones are absolutely riduculous, no way should that road be one....thing is setting a blanket 20 limit just lowers the status of those attached to genuine needs e.g. schools. We have them in Lewisham, generally results in a queue behind learners/others obeying and then a chain of cars overtaking, some more safely than others and within what was a 30 zone

Edited by kiethton on Thursday 6th April 13:05

Even around schools at chucking out times 20mph limits would be largely superfluous, as most sensible drivers would already be doing considerably less than 20 of their own volition, and the few nutters doing much in excess of 20 would ignore the limit anyway.

[Dixy]

I am with Kiethton on this, in order for it to be anything other than national speed limit, the full correct procedure from order to signage must be complete and correct, you may have a get out of jail free card.
As others have said on a moral ground your speed was inappropriate.

[katz]

Surely the big numbers painted on the road give some clue as to the speed limit? Hard to miss really.

[singlecoil]

Engineer792 said:

Even around schools at chucking out times 20mph limits would be largely superfluous, as most sensible drivers would already be doing considerably less than 20 of their own volition, and the few nutters doing much in excess of 20 would ignore the limit anyway.

Some massive assumptions there.