Red Light - Emergency Vehicle Defence?

[Retroman]

Gavia said:

I'm unsure what your point is. I believe there is a defence using force majeure and providing evidence that an emergency vehicle went through the lights at the same time. Proving this would be fairly straightforward.

1. The emergency vehicle may be in the photo
2. The emergency vehicle would have their own photo. Request this from the Speed Camera people and / or request it of the relevant emergency service
3. If the extreme happens and they go through on green, ask for the drivers log from the emergency service / vehicle tracking

If you're that paranoid, the getting the registration number of the emergency vehicle would not be difficult as it passed by.

In my opinion the reason people don't challenge these is that their story doesn't stack up, just as people claim to have been done for 31mph when they haven't.

1. It might not be also
2. You assume trying to get a hold of that information is both possible and easy.
3. See above.

The reason people don't challenge them is there is a real risk of getting done as the only real deffence is proving you didn't run a red light.

I read a story recently where an elderly gentleman crashed his car. A neighbour, who had been drinking rushed out to help him out the car. Police arrived and asked what happened. Both explained.
Police wanted to breathalyse the guy who had been drinking despite not being a passenger in the car, let alone driving.
He refused on the basis he wasn't trying so was charged with failing to provide.
In court he was able to prove he wasn't driving but because he was guilty for failing to provide and it being an absolute offence he still lost his license

[surveyor_101]

Stuzza said:

Absolutely! And if it ends with three points then so be it.

However my licence is clean and have a company car so 3pts will have no personal effect. Others have very different circumstances; on 9pts and facing a totting up ban for one more offence might well think different.

Red traffic lights are unnecessary authoritarian nonsense, or just red light cameras?

You don't risk a life to save a life and going through a red light has a risk. The advice is don't for various police and ambulance don't want you to why would you still risk it.

[Gavia]

Retroman said:

1. It might not be also
2. You assume trying to get a hold of that information is both possible and easy.
3. See above.

The reason people don't challenge them is there is a real risk of getting done as the only real deffence is proving you didn't run a red light.

I read a story recently where an elderly gentleman crashed his car. A neighbour, who had been drinking rushed out to help him out the car. Police arrived and asked what happened. Both explained.
Police wanted to breathalyse the guy who had been drinking despite not being a passenger in the car, let alone driving.
He refused on the basis he wasn't trying so was charged with failing to provide.
In court he was able to prove he wasn't driving but because he was guilty for failing to provide and it being an absolute offence he still lost his license

Provide a link to that story.

As much as you bang on I know what I'd do, but the chances of it happening are so small that it doesn't matter

[cmaguire]

Pull forward to allow the emergency vehicle to pass.
Should a FPN arrive, go back to said camera at night with battery powered cutter and cut the fking thing down.

[surveyor_101]

cmaguire said:

Pull forward to allow the emergency vehicle to pass.
Should a FPN arrive, go back to said camera at night with battery powered cutter and cut the fking thing down.

Jump red lights for blues lights, if you get a ticket go out and commit criminal damage.

Another PH top tip, you forgot to mentioned about hammering sausages into the home of the person whos name was on the bottom of the ticket but otherwise text book pistonheader.

[cmaguire]

surveyor_101 said:

Jump red lights for blues lights, if you get a ticket go out and commit criminal damage.

Another PH top tip, you forgot to mentioned about hammering sausages into the home of the person whos name was on the bottom of the ticket but otherwise text book pistonheader.

That classes as jumping a red light to you does it?
People that think like you are part of the reason we are in the oppressive state that exists now.

[Retroman]

Gavia said:

Provide a link to that story.

As much as you bang on I know what I'd do, but the chances of it happening are so small that it doesn't matter

It's on the Pepipoo forums in the archive somewhere from the last 6 months.
I tried to dig it out but their search feature for archived threads is terrible

[Gavia]

Retroman said:

It's on the Pepipoo forums in the archive somewhere from the last 6 months.
I tried to dig it out but their search feature for archived threads is terrible

Well go and look for it. However, I don't want an anecdote or I can tell you all about my mate who was abducted by aliens as proof that aliens exist.

I want the court records via bailli.org please. Shouldn't be hard to find.

[Ninja59]

Loyly said:

Have you ever considered getting a hobby?

I do have plenty of hobbies thanks.

But, either way no one should expect an oncoming ambulance around a blind bend of temporary set of roadworks that had ignored the red light.

Flipside no one should have to put up with bullying emergency drivers that have let the red mist take over.

[cmaguire]

Gavia said:

Well go and look for it. However, I don't want an anecdote or I can tell you all about my mate who was abducted by aliens as proof that aliens exist.

I want the court records via bailli.org please. Shouldn't be hard to find.

And then what?

The fact that he and so many others are so worried about the consequences of what should be an instinctive common sense response clearly demonstrates the level of paranoia that exists now whilst driving.

[Gavia]

Ninja59 said:

I do have plenty of hobbies thanks.

But, either way no one should expect an oncoming ambulance around a blind bend of temporary set of roadworks that had ignored the red light.

Flipside no one should have to put up with bullying emergency drivers that have let the red mist take over.

You should expect exactly that and be prepared to react to it safely. The fact most of don't is our failing as road users

[Bigends]

Gavia said:

Retroman said:

1. It might not be also
2. You assume trying to get a hold of that information is both possible and easy.
3. See above.

The reason people don't challenge them is there is a real risk of getting done as the only real deffence is proving you didn't run a red light.

I read a story recently where an elderly gentleman crashed his car. A neighbour, who had been drinking rushed out to help him out the car. Police arrived and asked what happened. Both explained.
Police wanted to breathalyse the guy who had been drinking despite not being a passenger in the car, let alone driving.
He refused on the basis he wasn't trying so was charged with failing to provide.
In court he was able to prove he wasn't driving but because he was guilty for failing to provide and it being an absolute offence he still lost his license

Provide a link to that story.

As much as you bang on I know what I'd do, but the chances of it happening are so small that it doesn't matter

This can and does happen - though rarely

[Ninja59]

Gavia said:

You should expect exactly that and be prepared to react to it safely. The fact most of don't is our failing as road users

What around a blind bend, with an oncoming head on ambulance that had ignored a red light? No that is stupid driving and either way had there been an accident it would have been on the ambulance drivers head (and deservedly so!)!

[Retroman]

Gavia said:

Well go and look for it. However, I don't want an anecdote or I can tell you all about my mate who was abducted by aliens as proof that aliens exist.

I want the court records via bailli.org please. Shouldn't be hard to find.

It's like when people ask me for links to prove Evolution is true. All the links and facts are there. I just make people aware of them. The fact they don't believe in the facts has no bearing on them.

I'm heading out shortly but if i get super bored and run out of things to do later i might

[Gavia]

Retroman said:

It's like when people ask me for links to prove Evolution is true. All the links and facts are there. I just make people aware of them. The fact they don't believe in the facts has no bearing on them.

I'm heading out shortly but if i get super bored and run out of things to do later i might

Evolution is a pretty well documented scientific fact, that's been taught at schools since Darwin's Origin of the Species in the mid 19th century.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/converted/pdf/1861_Ori...

I found that with ease, but nothing about your little anecdote.

That's a bit more mainstream than a story about a bloke who got banned from driving even though he wasn't even in a car.

Still waiting for some proof.

[vonhosen]

Gavia said:

Retroman said:

It's like when people ask me for links to prove Evolution is true. All the links and facts are there. I just make people aware of them. The fact they don't believe in the facts has no bearing on them.

I'm heading out shortly but if i get super bored and run out of things to do later i might

Evolution is a pretty well documented scientific fact, that's been taught at schools since Darwin's Origin of the Species in the mid 19th century.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/converted/pdf/1861_Ori...

I found that with ease, but nothing about your little anecdote.

That's a bit more mainstream than a story about a bloke who got banned from driving even though he wasn't even in a car.

Still waiting for some proof.

You have long been able to be banned from driving as a result of offences in which you were not driving.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1463472/Mot...

See Sec 146 Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_and_...

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 20th April 15:18

[Retroman]

Gavia said:

Evolution is a pretty well documented scientific fact, that's been taught at schools since Darwin's Origin of the Species in the mid 19th century.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/converted/pdf/1861_Ori...

I found that with ease, but nothing about your little anecdote.

That's a bit more mainstream than a story about a bloke who got banned from driving even though he wasn't even in a car.

Still waiting for some proof.

My point being, both are facts and the best thing about facts is my opinion or yours has no bearing on them.


To find the case details i need to remember some particulars about the case such as the name of people involved / location etc. As mentioned, Pepipoo search engine sucks so i can't use it to find the archived thread with the details which i could then use to find the actual court case from and this is assuming that the OP of the thread asking for advise put details on it that would divulge who they are or where it happened (doesn't happen often in many legal websites)

There is no incentive for me to spending ample time or effort to find it as changing your opinion has no bearing on my life.

[Gavia]

vonhosen said:

Gavia said:

Retroman said:

It's like when people ask me for links to prove Evolution is true. All the links and facts are there. I just make people aware of them. The fact they don't believe in the facts has no bearing on them.

I'm heading out shortly but if i get super bored and run out of things to do later i might

Evolution is a pretty well documented scientific fact, that's been taught at schools since Darwin's Origin of the Species in the mid 19th century.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/converted/pdf/1861_Ori...

I found that with ease, but nothing about your little anecdote.

That's a bit more mainstream than a story about a bloke who got banned from driving even though he wasn't even in a car.

Still waiting for some proof.

You have long been able to be banned from driving as a result of offences in which you were not driving.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1463472/Mot...

See Sec 146 Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_and_...

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 20th April 15:13

Do you go off on a tangent at every opportunity? I want to see evidence of the claim that the person that retroman has referenced was banned.

[vonhosen]

Gavia said:

vonhosen said:

Gavia said:

Retroman said:

It's like when people ask me for links to prove Evolution is true. All the links and facts are there. I just make people aware of them. The fact they don't believe in the facts has no bearing on them.

I'm heading out shortly but if i get super bored and run out of things to do later i might

Evolution is a pretty well documented scientific fact, that's been taught at schools since Darwin's Origin of the Species in the mid 19th century.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/converted/pdf/1861_Ori...

I found that with ease, but nothing about your little anecdote.

That's a bit more mainstream than a story about a bloke who got banned from driving even though he wasn't even in a car.

Still waiting for some proof.

You have long been able to be banned from driving as a result of offences in which you were not driving.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1463472/Mot...

See Sec 146 Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_and_...

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 20th April 15:13

Do you go off on a tangent at every opportunity? I want to see evidence of the claim that the person that retroman has referenced was banned.

I'm addressing the point that you fail to understand & showing it's even wider than your failure to comprehend.
You can't see how people can be banned when they aren't driving. Plain and simple you are wrong in your assumption.


With respect to failing to provide a sample.

http://drinkdrivesolicitors.com/representation/sen...

http://www.thefirmsolicitors.co.uk/pwpcontrol.php?...

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 20th April 15:26

[Gavia]

Retroman said:

My point being, both are facts and the best thing about facts is my opinion or yours has no bearing on them.


To find the case details i need to remember some particulars about the case such as the name of people involved / location etc. As mentioned, Pepipoo search engine sucks so i can't use it to find the archived thread with the details which i could then use to find the actual court case from and this is assuming that the OP of the thread asking for advise put details on it that would divulge who they are or where it happened (doesn't happen often in many legal websites)

There is no incentive for me to spending ample time or effort to find it as changing your opinion has no bearing on my life.

They may appear to both be facts to you, but to me only evolution counts as a fact as it can be evidenced. Without proof, your claim is just as specious as mine about aliens existing because I remember a story on a website from someone who was abducted by them. Ironically, I can provide evidence of the story existing, but no evidence of it being true. You can provide neither.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4422478/...

Took me 15 seconds to find this story.