Rejecting a used car with issues

[Peperami]

If hes a trader he's a trader, there is no private sale. It would be easy to prove he's a trader, as i'd imagine he sells lots of cars. You can reject the sale, but welcome to small claims court...

Before this point you have to give the trader the chance to rectify the goods first iirc. Phone him up/ go see him. Tell him about the noise and that you're not happy with the car and offer it back to him.

[andymc]

the crux of the matter is does the noise make the car unsuitable for use (not fit for purpose) ? I would say it doesn't as there are lots of 2k cars that have noisy DMF's and they will continue to be in use, does he have to refund you? Once again no unless the clutch is slipping and preventing the car being driven, that's the law

[andymc]

Mr Taxpayer said:

Moving on...

I bought a car (2011 A4 Avant)in London on Wednesday, got home and took it out with the family yesterday. Tried to adjust the driver's seatbelt height to make it more comfortable. It wouldn't move; when I applied a bit of gumption, the trim panel came off to reveal there is NO UPPER ANCHORAGE POINT!!! and the belt is just threaded through the trim.

Dealer has agreed to accept the vehicle back and give a full refund. However I'm in Hereford and not driving 130 miles in a car with no working drivers seat belt. I am happy to arrange a local recovery firm to return the car, but feel it should be them paying for it to be returned.

Who should pay for the return costs?

the onus is on you to return it, it is not the dealer's fault you bought from 130 miles away, can you not have it fixed?

[andymc]

kevcomdude said:

Hi all

Looking for some advice.

I purchased a used car this weekend with cash from a Trader working from his private residence (home).

I looked over the car and took it for a small test drive around London roads and didn't have a place to get it up to speed and everything seemed fine. Although he was insistent on playing the radio louder whilst we were on the test drive.

On the way home along the M4 I noticed that there is a whining noise coming from the engine/gearbox. After some research it could be the clutch bearing that is on its way out and to replace this including clutch and DMF is around £1000.

Do I have a right to reject the car and ask for a refund?

If so what are the next steps to take?

Here is the advert for the car

"Silver, grey met, full service history, s-line model 190 bhp, aircon, climate control, half black sport leather seats, 18 in s-line alloys, good tyres, alarm, cruise control, 2 key, remote central locking, very clean int/out, drives excellent, electric windows, electric mirrors, pas, abs, esp, traction control, cd, mot, very good condition."


Thanks in advance.

you need to have the issue diagnosed

[chris52]

The quality of goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would consider satisfactory, taking account of—

(a)any description of the goods,

(b)the price or other consideration for the goods (if relevant), and

(c)all the other relevant circumstances (see subsection (5)).

The above is taken directly from the Gov website and is where the Consumer rights act is unclear. So as a bit of fun as I guess we all think of ourselves as this reasonable person.
please give opinions on the following two examples.

1.I buy from a trader a car. the car is 15 years old done 150,000 miles lets say the car is a Range Rover the cost new is over £70,000 but as its old and well used I buy it for £4000 I am told at point of sale that the car comes with no warranty but I'm given the opportunity to inspect and test it as much as I want, the car passed its MOT 2 days ago and drives fine so I buy it.
On the way home I get a light on the dash saying there is a fault with the air suspension. the car is still driving fine but it takes a while for the system to pump up. 3 days later I get a warning light on the dash saying the transmission now has a fault.

So who thinks that I have a case here? is this car in satisfactory condition considering the following?
Its age 15 years old, its price £4000 (5% of the cost new price) and its mileage 150,000 and the fact it was sold to me with no warranty.
.

2 I buy from a trader a 5 year old Corsa thats done 45,000 miles it cost £4000 ( the same as the Range Rover) the new cost is £12000 I get a 6 month warranty with it. On my way home the car starts to squeak from the shockers and 3 days later the car starts to crunch going into 3rd gear.

So Who thinks I have a case here same purchase price similar faults to the Range Rover, But this car is only 5 years old has only done 45,000 miles and cost about 33% of a new one.

So what is the verdict here from all you REASONABLE people?

[Peperami]

chris52 said:

The quality of goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would consider satisfactory, taking account of—

(a)any description of the goods,

(b)the price or other consideration for the goods (if relevant), and

(c)all the other relevant circumstances (see subsection (5)).

The above is taken directly from the Gov website and is where the Consumer rights act is unclear. So as a bit of fun as I guess we all think of ourselves as this reasonable person.
please give opinions on the following two examples.

1.I buy from a trader a car. the car is 15 years old done 150,000 miles lets say the car is a Range Rover the cost new is over £70,000 but as its old and well used I buy it for £4000 I am told at point of sale that the car comes with no warranty but I'm given the opportunity to inspect and test it as much as I want, the car passed its MOT 2 days ago and drives fine so I buy it.
On the way home I get a light on the dash saying there is a fault with the air suspension. the car is still driving fine but it takes a while for the system to pump up. 3 days later I get a warning light on the dash saying the transmission now has a fault.

So who thinks that I have a case here? is this car in satisfactory condition considering the following?
Its age 15 years old, its price £4000 (5% of the cost new price) and its mileage 150,000 and the fact it was sold to me with no warranty.
.

2 I buy from a trader a 5 year old Corsa thats done 45,000 miles it cost £4000 ( the same as the Range Rover) the new cost is £12000 I get a 6 month warranty with it. On my way home the car starts to squeak from the shockers and 3 days later the car starts to crunch going into 3rd gear.

So Who thinks I have a case here same purchase price similar faults to the Range Rover, But this car is only 5 years old has only done 45,000 miles and cost about 33% of a new one.

So what is the verdict here from all you REASONABLE people?

You have a case with both cars.

[TooMany2cvs]

Mr Taxpayer said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Return costs are up to the buyer, who chose to buy a car from 130 miles away.

Lots of people buy cars from a long way away. Especially when Auto trader only has 2 for sale.
Btw, on return costs, www.legislation.gov.uk is very useful. Section 20(8) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015...Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.

Yes, exactly.

[Mr Taxpayer]

TooMany2cvs said:

Mr Taxpayer said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Return costs are up to the buyer, who chose to buy a car from 130 miles away.

Lots of people buy cars from a long way away. Especially when Auto trader only has 2 for sale.
Btw, on return costs, www.legislation.gov.uk is very useful. Section 20(8) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015...Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.

Yes, exactly.

The bold clause cover your return costs if you take something back to the trader and make your complaint on arrival. The car is (was) not safe to drive so could not be returned in person. The law places no duty on the consumer to return to the store in person. Taking back to the store would be dependent on what the specific terms in the sales contract with regard to returned or rejected goods.

[TooMany2cvs]

Mr Taxpayer said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Mr Taxpayer said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Return costs are up to the buyer, who chose to buy a car from 130 miles away.

Lots of people buy cars from a long way away. Especially when Auto trader only has 2 for sale.
Btw, on return costs, www.legislation.gov.uk is very useful. Section 20(8) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015...Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.

Yes, exactly.

The bold clause cover your return costs if you take something back to the trader and make your complaint on arrival. The car is (was) not safe to drive so could not be returned in person.

It still needs to be returned to the place where the consumer took physical possession.

Most people would use their breakdown cover for that.

[xjay1337]

JimmyConwayNW said:

chris52 said:

I don't get why people think a car which has probably gone round the world a few times and will be over 10 years old and costs roughly 7% of the equivalent new car today should be free from faults. Buying a used car is a gamble the older, cheaper (compared to new) and higher the mileage the bigger gamble. Why should the seller be responsible. You have the choice to buy or not you have the choice to get it inspected or not. The consumer rights act and 30 day find a fault and reject it is a load of bks the only person who has any power of enforcing it is a judge. A £25k new car now 10 years old 120k miles and now costing £2k is the same as as buying a £250 new washing machine that's now 10 years old washed a million pairs of underpants and now costs £20 if it makes a noise on full spin would you want your money back? Would a Judge really find in your favour I think not.
Talk to Citezens Advice and those idiots will tel you exactly what you want to hear. Oh yes you have the right to reject any faulty goods regardless of age price useage etc etc etc. This is not the case many buyers have wasted their time and money trying this and failed in court it's all down to reasonable expectations of what you buy. A 5 year old 50k miles car with FSH should be in reasonable order and if that fails fair play and the dealer should help. But not very old very high mileage and very cheap.

Edited by chris52 on Tuesday 18th April 23:42

Fantastic post well said.

I do totally agree with this post.

However the concerning thing for me is that the "seller" insisted on playing the radio loudly to try and hide the fault.

To be honest I would probably drive it and fix the DMF / Clutch at a later date.
Usually you can get parts for a lot less than you think. EG clutch from VW for my car is £1200 for stock. I can buy an OEM for £450 or a heavily upgraded one for £1000.

Maybe check to see if he has a website, Facebook page, etc, but it would be a long stressful process.
Better off chalking it up to experience.