Totting up ban coming !!
Discussion
Engineer792 said:
I think raising the limit above 90mph would have little or no effect, as it seems most people are happy at around 85.
By and large, drivers do think of the limit as being just that - a limit - and not so much as a guide to what speed to do. If the limit is substantially lower than the speed they would have chosen then they tend to drive at or above the limit. The limit does however have a tempering effect.
If the limit is higher than their chosen speed then they tend to stick to their chosen speed, speeding up only when necessary. This can be seen by the fact that even though most single-track country lanes are NSL, people seldom reach speeds of much more than 30mph on them. If you increased urban speed limits it would make hardly any difference to speeds in residential areas, although people might speed up a bit on arterial roads.
Whilst I agree that many trundle through NSLs at 30mph, I wonder how many of them simply don't know the speed limit. However, the idea that increasing urban limits won't make any difference is farcical. I live in a village on the Pennines and it's ridiculous. I overtake many drivers every day doing 30-40 in the NSL sections where 100mph wouldn't be much of an effort, yet as soon as we get to the village which is a 30 limit I have the same drivers crawling over the back of me. By and large, drivers do think of the limit as being just that - a limit - and not so much as a guide to what speed to do. If the limit is substantially lower than the speed they would have chosen then they tend to drive at or above the limit. The limit does however have a tempering effect.
If the limit is higher than their chosen speed then they tend to stick to their chosen speed, speeding up only when necessary. This can be seen by the fact that even though most single-track country lanes are NSL, people seldom reach speeds of much more than 30mph on them. If you increased urban speed limits it would make hardly any difference to speeds in residential areas, although people might speed up a bit on arterial roads.
People just want to drive at 40mph everywhere and that's simply not acceptable. One of the problems is that the 30 mph built up areas near me have large wide roads and there's no way for many to moderate their driving to take account of the pedestrians and village life.
Gavia said:
Whilst I agree that many trundle through NSLs at 30mph, I wonder how many of them simply don't know the speed limit. However, the idea that increasing urban limits won't make any difference is farcical. I live in a village on the Pennines and it's ridiculous. I overtake many drivers every day doing 30-40 in the NSL sections where 100mph wouldn't be much of an effort, yet as soon as we get to the village which is a 30 limit I have the same drivers crawling over the back of me.
People just want to drive at 40mph everywhere and that's simply not acceptable. One of the problems is that the 30 mph built up areas near me have large wide roads and there's no way for many to moderate their driving to take account of the pedestrians and village life.
Yet for the most part those drivers are not the ones that need to worry about their licence as the risk is painted bright yellow and doesn't move anywhere. Do the easy 100 (which they don't) though and ..... People just want to drive at 40mph everywhere and that's simply not acceptable. One of the problems is that the 30 mph built up areas near me have large wide roads and there's no way for many to moderate their driving to take account of the pedestrians and village life.
cmaguire said:
Yet for the most part those drivers are not the ones that need to worry about their licence as the risk is painted bright yellow and doesn't move anywhere. Do the easy 100 (which they don't) though and .....
I disagree. The 30 limits are well enforced (and rightly so) round here, nothing else is. I fell victim to it, as I didn't get down to sub 35mph in time after getting annoyed at the 40mph brigade in the NSLs. My fault completely and deserved the £85 SAC. Gavia said:
I disagree. The 30 limits are well enforced (and rightly so) round here, nothing else is. I fell victim to it, as I didn't get down to sub 35mph in time after getting annoyed at the 40mph brigade in the NSLs. My fault completely and deserved the £85 SAC.
And what caught you?Gavia said:
A whacking great dayglo yellow mobile camera van, that had I been paying any real attention wouldn't have got me. It was my fault and I deserved the penalty.
Maybe there is a shortage of 70 limits to sit in near you then, that's their normal location of choice (or catching people in 60 limits approaching villages, perhaps at the extended 30/40 approaching said village). Although there are probably a shortage of 70s near you, but thankfully (for them) an inordinate number of '50s that used to be 60s'. cmaguire said:
Maybe there is a shortage of 70 limits to sit in near you then, that's their normal location of choice (or catching people in 60 limits approaching villages, perhaps at the extended 30/40 approaching said village). Although there are probably a shortage of 70s near you, but thankfully (for them) an inordinate number of '50s that used to be 60s'.
Yes, there's only the M62, M61' M60, M53, M56, M6, somwere well short of 70 limits 
The same for 60 limits, we have miles and miles of NSL dual and single carriageway.
Engineer792 said:
most people are happy at around 85.
Sit at 85 during a typical day on a typical motorway and you'll probably be in the fastest 5% or so. Most people don't travel that quickly any more is the reality.I'll typically cruise between 85 and 95 where safe and appropriate and few drivers (far fewer than doing the same 20 years ago) tag along or wish to pass.
Widescale automatic enforcement, smart motorways, congestion, employer policies and their monitoring technology and sustained periods of high fuel prices have all contributed.
janesmith1950 said:
Engineer792 said:
most people are happy at around 85.
Sit at 85 during a typical day on a typical motorway and you'll probably be in the fastest 5% or so. Most people don't travel that quickly any more is the reality.I'll typically cruise between 85 and 95 where safe and appropriate and few drivers (far fewer than doing the same 20 years ago) tag along or wish to pass.
Widescale automatic enforcement, smart motorways, congestion, employer policies and their monitoring technology and sustained periods of high fuel prices have all contributed.
Gavia said:
Engineer792 said:
I think raising the limit above 90mph would have little or no effect, as it seems most people are happy at around 85.
By and large, drivers do think of the limit as being just that - a limit - and not so much as a guide to what speed to do. If the limit is substantially lower than the speed they would have chosen then they tend to drive at or above the limit. The limit does however have a tempering effect.
If the limit is higher than their chosen speed then they tend to stick to their chosen speed, speeding up only when necessary. This can be seen by the fact that even though most single-track country lanes are NSL, people seldom reach speeds of much more than 30mph on them. If you increased urban speed limits it would make hardly any difference to speeds in residential areas, although people might speed up a bit on arterial roads.
Whilst I agree that many trundle through NSLs at 30mph, I wonder how many of them simply don't know the speed limit. However, the idea that increasing urban limits won't make any difference is farcical. I live in a village on the Pennines and it's ridiculous. I overtake many drivers every day doing 30-40 in the NSL sections where 100mph wouldn't be much of an effort, yet as soon as we get to the village which is a 30 limit I have the same drivers crawling over the back of me. By and large, drivers do think of the limit as being just that - a limit - and not so much as a guide to what speed to do. If the limit is substantially lower than the speed they would have chosen then they tend to drive at or above the limit. The limit does however have a tempering effect.
If the limit is higher than their chosen speed then they tend to stick to their chosen speed, speeding up only when necessary. This can be seen by the fact that even though most single-track country lanes are NSL, people seldom reach speeds of much more than 30mph on them. If you increased urban speed limits it would make hardly any difference to speeds in residential areas, although people might speed up a bit on arterial roads.
People just want to drive at 40mph everywhere and that's simply not acceptable. One of the problems is that the 30 mph built up areas near me have large wide roads and there's no way for many to moderate their driving to take account of the pedestrians and village life.
Engineer792 said:
You evidently didn't read my comments properly.
I did and I still disagree with the the view that increasing urban speed limits won't have much difference. People tend to be good with urban speed limits close to their homes, but have far less regard for them elsewhere. If the limits were increased, then it would lead to higher speeds IMO. Not that it's ever going to happen, as just one major accident would be a PR disaster for the governement / council I feel your pain OP
I've just been done at 83 in a 60,
I did not know what they had me at but was expecting far worse and maybe ban.
I spent two weeks thinking did it seem me at that point s
t I may loose license. The thought of it affecting my work mortgauge etc really scared me. I've altered my whole driving method now and cruise control is my friend.
Anyway.
I'm assuming you had 3 separate lots of 3 point fines and this will be your 4th lot ?
If so how olds the oldest one.
I've just been done at 83 in a 60,
I did not know what they had me at but was expecting far worse and maybe ban.
I spent two weeks thinking did it seem me at that point s
t I may loose license. The thought of it affecting my work mortgauge etc really scared me. I've altered my whole driving method now and cruise control is my friend.Anyway.
I'm assuming you had 3 separate lots of 3 point fines and this will be your 4th lot ?
If so how olds the oldest one.
Gavia said:
Engineer792 said:
You evidently didn't read my comments properly.
I did and I still disagree with the the view that increasing urban speed limits won't have much difference. People tend to be good with urban speed limits close to their homes, but have far less regard for them elsewhere. If the limits were increased, then it would lead to higher speeds IMO. Not that it's ever going to happen, as just one major accident would be a PR disaster for the governement / council Road and traffic conditions and what hazards and potential hazards happen to be around at the time have far more effect on speed than the limits.
The pedestrian casualty figures very strongly suggest that the vast majority of pedestrian collisions involve vehicles travelling at well below the 30mph speed limits
Engineer792 said:
My point is that drivers tend to moderate their speed as and where it matters
Road and traffic conditions and what hazards and potential hazards happen to be around at the time have far more effect on speed than the limits.
The pedestrian casualty figures very strongly suggest that the vast majority of pedestrian collisions involve vehicles travelling at well below the 30mph speed limits
You seem to want to make your point over and over and not deal with the counterpoint that I'm making. Road and traffic conditions and what hazards and potential hazards happen to be around at the time have far more effect on speed than the limits.
The pedestrian casualty figures very strongly suggest that the vast majority of pedestrian collisions involve vehicles travelling at well below the 30mph speed limits
I agree that drivers moderate their speed based on the limit, increase the limit in the places with lower limits and most will increase their speed. Increase a 30 to a 40 and most will increase their speed by 10mph even though they were already over the limit to start with.
Pedestrian casualty figures are irrelevant when it comes to PR. One major accident following an increase in a limit will cost a government or council heavily. This is the key point. You can argue stats all day, but they won't override the emotional reaction of those affected by the major accident.
Gavia said:
Engineer792 said:
My point is that drivers tend to moderate their speed as and where it matters
Road and traffic conditions and what hazards and potential hazards happen to be around at the time have far more effect on speed than the limits.
The pedestrian casualty figures very strongly suggest that the vast majority of pedestrian collisions involve vehicles travelling at well below the 30mph speed limits
You seem to want to make your point over and over and not deal with the counterpoint that I'm making. Road and traffic conditions and what hazards and potential hazards happen to be around at the time have far more effect on speed than the limits.
The pedestrian casualty figures very strongly suggest that the vast majority of pedestrian collisions involve vehicles travelling at well below the 30mph speed limits
I agree that drivers moderate their speed based on the limit, increase the limit in the places with lower limits and most will increase their speed. Increase a 30 to a 40 and most will increase their speed by 10mph even though they were already over the limit to start with.
Pedestrian casualty figures are irrelevant when it comes to PR. One major accident following an increase in a limit will cost a government or council heavily. This is the key point. You can argue stats all day, but they won't override the emotional reaction of those affected by the major accident.
I said that speeds wouldn't change much in residential areas, ie, narrow streets where there are kids running around etc, but did make the concession that speeds could increase on arterial roads, ie where it's relatively safe.
Regarding your point on PR, a major accident would be bad news for the authorities even if they do nothing - they'll be in hot water for failing to act,
And if the major accident occurred after they lowered the limits, they would be in trouble for doing that as well.
Engineer792 said:
You only have anecdotal evidence to support your assertion that most will increase their speed by 10mph.
I said that speeds wouldn't change much in residential areas, ie, narrow streets where there are kids running around etc, but did make the concession that speeds could increase on arterial roads, ie where it's relatively safe.
Regarding your point on PR, a major accident would be bad news for the authorities even if they do nothing - they'll be in hot water for failing to act,
And if the major accident occurred after they lowered the limits, they would be in trouble for doing that as well.
There's no way the press will hound a local council for dropping a speed limit and then there being a major accident. The press definitely would if the limit was raised. I said that speeds wouldn't change much in residential areas, ie, narrow streets where there are kids running around etc, but did make the concession that speeds could increase on arterial roads, ie where it's relatively safe.
Regarding your point on PR, a major accident would be bad news for the authorities even if they do nothing - they'll be in hot water for failing to act,
And if the major accident occurred after they lowered the limits, they would be in trouble for doing that as well.
It's true that my views on people increasing their speed is anecdotal, but it's not necessarily untrue.
Gavia said:
Engineer792 said:
You only have anecdotal evidence to support your assertion that most will increase their speed by 10mph.
I said that speeds wouldn't change much in residential areas, ie, narrow streets where there are kids running around etc, but did make the concession that speeds could increase on arterial roads, ie where it's relatively safe.
Regarding your point on PR, a major accident would be bad news for the authorities even if they do nothing - they'll be in hot water for failing to act,
And if the major accident occurred after they lowered the limits, they would be in trouble for doing that as well.
There's no way the press will hound a local council for dropping a speed limit and then there being a major accident. The press definitely would if the limit was raised. I said that speeds wouldn't change much in residential areas, ie, narrow streets where there are kids running around etc, but did make the concession that speeds could increase on arterial roads, ie where it's relatively safe.
Regarding your point on PR, a major accident would be bad news for the authorities even if they do nothing - they'll be in hot water for failing to act,
And if the major accident occurred after they lowered the limits, they would be in trouble for doing that as well.
It's true that my views on people increasing their speed is anecdotal, but it's not necessarily untrue.
The misinformation that's been spread about speed probably has a lot to do with public views on the matter, but this is where the conversation starts getting a bit too political for my liking, if you don't mind.
Engineer792 said:
You can believe what you want to, but don't expect to sway others without evidence.
The misinformation that's been spread about speed probably has a lot to do with public views on the matter, but this is where the conversation starts getting a bit too political for my liking, if you don't mind.
I don't expect anyone to change their minds with or without evidence. For info, I speed every time I get in / on any of my vehicles so I'm no speed nazi. The misinformation that's been spread about speed probably has a lot to do with public views on the matter, but this is where the conversation starts getting a bit too political for my liking, if you don't mind.
Speed limits are by definition political. They are set by politicians / councillors who have an electorate to keep happy. I'm sick of bypasses having their limits dropped as it seems to push traffic back onto the roads it was supposed to bypass. However, I've yet to be convinced that urban areas, especially ones with high pedestrian traffic or residential should be anything other than 30
Gavia said:
Engineer792 said:
You can believe what you want to, but don't expect to sway others without evidence.
The misinformation that's been spread about speed probably has a lot to do with public views on the matter, but this is where the conversation starts getting a bit too political for my liking, if you don't mind.
I don't expect anyone to change their minds with or without evidence. For info, I speed every time I get in / on any of my vehicles so I'm no speed nazi. The misinformation that's been spread about speed probably has a lot to do with public views on the matter, but this is where the conversation starts getting a bit too political for my liking, if you don't mind.
Speed limits are by definition political. They are set by politicians / councillors who have an electorate to keep happy. I'm sick of bypasses having their limits dropped as it seems to push traffic back onto the roads it was supposed to bypass. However, I've yet to be convinced that urban areas, especially ones with high pedestrian traffic or residential should be anything other than 30
Gavia said:
Engineer792 said:
People just want to drive at 40mph everywhere and that's simply not acceptable
Nothing wrong with 40mph & perfectly acceptable. In many congested yet rural parts of the UK driving any quicker when able just gets you to the next queue quicker. Many times I chuckled as some pompous 'I'm a very important person' belts past & looks a right tt when I trundle up to find him waiting like the rest of the peasants at a round-about or traffic light. I know this because I have been that pompous t
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