Shotgun Cartridges and the law?

[TVRnutcase]

creampuff said:

^ Are you in NZ? You can't get pistols in NZ?

>> I have never been able to figure out why in the UK - Shotguns should be treated any differently to rimfire/centre fire rifles. Both tools will kill people - so why not license them the same.

Firearms licensing: it doesn't need to make sense.

Shotgun licensing isn't too lax in the UK, firearms licensing is too pointlessly strict to the point where it doesn't reduce crime, it just makes it inconvenient. It's quite common to have 1,000+ rounds of centerfire ammo authorised for purchase on an FAC. So why not just make it an unlimited quantity?

Edited by creampuff on Saturday 13th May 04:57

AH - makes sense now - as in licensing doesn't need to make sense.

Pistols are readily available here - but just very painful to get the endorsement, and you need beefed up security - typically - about 600UKP - 1,500UKP

[200Plus Club]

BrettMRC said:

200Plus Club said:

I've got a 100ft/lb daystate wolverine .303 air rifle in mine :-)
It's a beast!

100ft/lb?

I thought 40ft/lb was nice enough!

Yes it's like a bigger bore rimfire. 10 shots per 300bar fill. You tube has some footage of people hunting boar and deer with them abroad!
It's a beautiful fun gun, but gets less use than my rapid 7 (35ft/lb) and my rimfire / hmr.
Pellets are £13 for 50 :-)

[300bhp/ton]

Big Al. said:

I'm bases in West Sussex, and having recently applied for a shotgun licence; today I had a visit from my local Firearms Enquiry Officer to not only check me out but also the installation of my gun cabinet.

It would appear that he was satisfied that everything was in order. Phew!

During our chat I asked a few questions about shot gun cartilages (SGC).

My first question was, do I need a licence to be in possession of SGC? he replied NO you only need a licence to buy them from a licenced arms dealer. You could have been given or bought them from someone who bought them legally (with a SG licence). It is not illegal to buy SGC from anyone without a SGC as long as it's not an arms dealer.

I was surprised with his answer to say the least.

Second question was, how do I store them? In a cool, Dry place, is that all I asked, YES was his reply.

Third question was, do they have to be stored in a locked safe away from your gun cabinet? again NO was his reply only a cool dry place out of general view.

Second Surprise of our conversation.

My third and final question was if he were me where would he store them in my home? for small amounts 100 - 300 Qty, IN MY GUN CABINET along with my gun.

I said I thought that was not allowed, as I spoke to a few guys on a clay shoot in Dorset last Sunday and all said Must be in a locked cabinet away from Gun cabinet, his reply was BARRACK ROOM LAWYERS! back up with I know the law.

Third surprise of the day!

So I light of the laws in West Sussex, are they the same in your area? if not why? surely it must be the same law that covers the whole of England and Wales should it not?

TYIA

As others have said, you were probably getting mixed up with the FAC regs for ammo. Not shotgun shells.

Btw SGC normally means Shotgun Certificate. It's an acronym othen used along side FAC. Rather than using it to refer to the shells.

[BobSaunders]

I would like a shotgun, but installation of a cabinet is a pain.

All my walls are plasterboard - and i am terraced.

Probably means it needs to go in the loft on the beams, but it's not easily accessible (yes, yes.. i know it is not supposed to be easily accessible).

[Dicky Knee]

BobSaunders said:

I would like a shotgun, but installation of a cabinet is a pain.

All my walls are plasterboard - and i am terraced.

Probably means it needs to go in the loft on the beams, but it's not easily accessible (yes, yes.. i know it is not supposed to be easily accessible).

Hi Bob,

In my area (Essex) the Fire Arms Officers are reluctant to approve installations in the loft. Their reasoning is that if it isn't easily accessible the temptation is to leave the gun unsecured because it is a pain to get into the loft to put it in the cabinet. The requirement is that it is out of sight rather than not easily accessible.

The other issue is that the temperature changes in the loft (assuming it is well insulated) can cause condensation in the cabinet and on the gun and it will go rusty.

There are a few solutions such as laying it down and bolting it to the floor if it is concrete or through the joists if timber. You can also use coach bolts through to the wall studs. The cabinet doesn't have to be vertical and you can also get smaller cabinets but you have to break the gun down.

The best thing to do is to phone your local Fire Arms Officer and have a chat. My experience is they are happy to talk you through some solutions they have seen and tell you what they will approve and what they won't approve.

Dicky.

Edited by Dicky Knee on Saturday 13th May 09:24

[anonymous-user]

BobSaunders said:

I would like a shotgun, but installation of a cabinet is a pain.

All my walls are plasterboard - and i am terraced.

Probably means it needs to go in the loft on the beams, but it's not easily accessible (yes, yes.. i know it is not supposed to be easily accessible).

All my walls are plasterboard and I managed it. The floor in my house is concrete so I just put it in the understairs cupboard bolted to the concrete floor and into the plasterboard and timber behind with several wall anchor bolts.

I would never put a shotgun cabinet where it can't be accessed easily, but that's just because I'm lazy

As for cartridges, I just store them on a shelf in the same cupboard as the shotgun cabinet. But inevitably there's usually a box in my van and other places.

I buy them from justcartridges.com in a slab of 1000 at a time and have them delivered to my work. If I'm not there then anyone can sign for them.

I think people have missed the point when a previous poster said you can "buy a shotgun from a guy in a pub" and other posters disagreed. He is entirely correct, you can buy a shotgun from anyone, anywhere at anytime, provided that you both hold the appropriate certificates, which is of course what he meant and doesn't need spelling out.

[Big Al.]

NinjaPower said:

I think people have missed the point when a previous poster said you can "buy a shotgun from a guy in a pub" and other posters disagreed. He is entirely correct, you can buy a shotgun from anyone, anywhere at anytime, provided that you both hold the appropriate certificates

But that's not what was posted.

overunder12g said:

Nothing stopping you from buying a shotgun, or any other, down the pub from someone without a licence so not sure what your point is.

[anonymous-user]

Big Al. said:

NinjaPower said:

I think people have missed the point when a previous poster said you can "buy a shotgun from a guy in a pub" and other posters disagreed. He is entirely correct, you can buy a shotgun from anyone, anywhere at anytime, provided that you both hold the appropriate certificates

But that's not what was posted.

overunder12g said:

Nothing stopping you from buying a shotgun, or any other, down the pub from someone without a licence so not sure what your point is.

Well that'll teach me to skim read so fast!

[Byker28i]

Dicky Knee said:

BobSaunders said:

I would like a shotgun, but installation of a cabinet is a pain.

All my walls are plasterboard - and i am terraced.

Probably means it needs to go in the loft on the beams, but it's not easily accessible (yes, yes.. i know it is not supposed to be easily accessible).

Hi Bob,

In my area (Essex) the Fire Arms Officers are reluctant to approve installations in the loft. Their reasoning is that if it isn't easily accessible the temptation is to leave the gun unsecured because it is a pain to get into the loft to put it in the cabinet. The requirement is that it is out of sight rather than not easily accessible.

The other issue is that the temperature changes in the loft (assuming it is well insulated) can cause condensation in the cabinet and on the gun and it will go rusty.

There are a few solutions such as laying it down and bolting it to the floor if it is concrete or through the joists if timber. You can also use coach bolts through to the wall studs. The cabinet doesn't have to be vertical and you can also get smaller cabinets but you have to break the gun down.

The best thing to do is to phone your local Fire Arms Officer and have a chat. My experience is they are happy to talk you through some solutions they have seen and tell you what they will approve and what they won't approve.

Dicky.

Edited by Dicky Knee on Saturday 13th May 09:24

Mines in the loft, but it has an easily accessible ladder, is fully boarded and bolted to the far wall and down also onto the beams. Fire Arms officer was very happy with it.
Shells are in the wardrobe - I buy 1000 at a time - just gone up a fair bit too

[200Plus Club]

My local officer insisted it went in the loft due to plasterboard walls in house. Loft ladder is easily used etc.

[bobtail4x4]

the argument against the loft is that coming in late, you wont use it.

[creampuff]

> I would never put a shotgun cabinet where it can't be accessed easily, but that's just because I'm lazy

I also got an electronic combination lock as it is less flaffing than a key (or some safes need to unlock two locks). Plus if the fking zombie apocalypse comes, then an electronic lock is a lot faster to open than a key lock. Of course after the zombie apocalypse, you probably won't be able to buy replacement batteries for the electronic lock, but then there probably won't be police firearms enquiry officers to check your guns are locked up either

Burg Watchter do an electronic lock 5 gun safe with ammo compartment for about £470.

The other thing is I don't want anyone to know I have guns in the house (except the neighbours 12yo who I'm encouraging to join the local gun club ) so I paid for my safe in cash, didn't leave my name, declined the free delivery and picked it up myself. If you have a safe for anything, best not let anyone know you have one. Security in obscurity.

[creampuff]

bobtail4x4 said:

the argument against the loft is that coming in late, you wont use it.

Then you can sleep in your bed with your gun, like it's your girlfriend

[Dicky Knee]

There are only guidelines on the fitting of the cabinet and each area may have a different view so it is best to check with your local FAO before you start drilling holes.

They also like to see window locks, dead locks on the doors and house alarms around here although, again, there is no specific requirement for them.

[anonymous-user]

Dicky Knee said:

There are only guidelines on the fitting of the cabinet and each area may have a different view so it is best to check with your local FAO before you start drilling holes.

They also like to see window locks, dead locks on the doors and house alarms around here although, again, there is no specific requirement for them.

This is true. It's entirely up to the local officer.

I was amazed by the whole process really. The guy wasn't really in my house for long, didn't ask about my home security, and looked at my cabinet for about 2 seconds, and then just had a general chat to me for 10 minutes and said everything was fine and I should get my licence in about a week or so.

I'm just speculating wildly here, but I got the distinct impression he was far more interested in briefly ascertaining what sort of person I was, rather than the exact details of how I would be storing my guns.

[creampuff]

> Cartridges... Yep I have loads dotted around from shoots and I don't even have a licence.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to tidy them up and put them in one place, out of sight. Having them laying around is not a good look then the FEO visits.

[Gareth79]

Greg_D said:

As a point of note though you do need to be extremely careful that you don't tell your wife where the keys are to any of your safes.

if the officer comes round and asks her where the keys are and she can provide them then she technically has access to the guns and you can get in very deep water over that. I also believe that there is a specification that you cannot keep the keys attached to your bunch of car keys as that is too obvious for any wannabe criminals

That must be challenging for people who don't live in large houses. You'd need to find a place in the house that the wife (or anybody else) would not find, but that you can get to to retrieve the keys when you need them (and replace them) without that person noticing or asking what you are doing.

[Druid]

Gareth79 said:

Greg_D said:

As a point of note though you do need to be extremely careful that you don't tell your wife where the keys are to any of your safes.

if the officer comes round and asks her where the keys are and she can provide them then she technically has access to the guns and you can get in very deep water over that. I also believe that there is a specification that you cannot keep the keys attached to your bunch of car keys as that is too obvious for any wannabe criminals

That must be challenging for people who don't live in large houses. You'd need to find a place in the house that the wife (or anybody else) would not find, but that you can get to to retrieve the keys when you need them (and replace them) without that person noticing or asking what you are doing.

Unless your wife's shotguns are in your joint cabinet of course!

[FurtiveFreddy]

Gareth79 said:

That must be challenging for people who don't live in large houses. You'd need to find a place in the house that the wife (or anybody else) would not find, but that you can get to to retrieve the keys when you need them (and replace them) without that person noticing or asking what you are doing.

Or you have a small keysafe with a number combination and cover it with your hand when you push the buttons in case the nosey parker is near you at the time.

[anonymous-user]

Put the keys to the gun cabinet in a safe.

Then put the keys to that safe in a safe.

Then but the keys to that safe in a safe.

It's the only way to be sure...