Dealing with foreign registered vehicles
Discussion
Foreign registered vehicles are only permitted here for 6 months in any 12
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
If you have a suspected overstayer in your street getting your goat, try filling this one out
https://forms.dft.gov.uk/report-an-untaxed-vehicle... I'm told it'll work for foreign vehicles too, except DVLA/HMRC can't automatically send a fine, they can put a marker on PNC for it to be given a tug.
Unfortunately most Police Officers shy away from foreign registered vehicles, putting it into the 'too difficult to deal with' box. Councils and Camera Partnerships likewise.
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
If you have a suspected overstayer in your street getting your goat, try filling this one out
https://forms.dft.gov.uk/report-an-untaxed-vehicle... I'm told it'll work for foreign vehicles too, except DVLA/HMRC can't automatically send a fine, they can put a marker on PNC for it to be given a tug.
Unfortunately most Police Officers shy away from foreign registered vehicles, putting it into the 'too difficult to deal with' box. Councils and Camera Partnerships likewise.
the tribester said:
Unfortunately most Police Officers shy away from foreign registered vehicles, putting it into the 'too difficult to deal with' box. Councils and Camera Partnerships likewise.
That's the problem I'm soon to be helping to deal with in Kent, the fact that foreign registered vehicles end up it the difficult box.The dream would be to partner with the SIV folks (French DVLA records) for a bit of information sharing to start, then with most other EU countries. Issues with that are the language barriers, Western computer fonts and the fact we might get two fingers stuck up to us due to Brexit.
It was enough of a pain in the arse to get the local council to stop ticketing unmarked police cars!
davemac250 said:
No.
A car doesn't get a certain amount of time here.
It's exactly the same as in other countries.
The person gets 6 months to get their car registered here. Then the car is fair game to be seized under Op Reclaim etc. And they do. Lots.
After the person has been here 6 months every car is illegal and can be seized if stopped. Unfortunately the number of officers able to do this is small, and falling.
"ooh no officer, it's not my car, it's my wife'/brother's/mother's (still resident in their home country). They've just lent it to me for a couple of weeks".A car doesn't get a certain amount of time here.
It's exactly the same as in other countries.
The person gets 6 months to get their car registered here. Then the car is fair game to be seized under Op Reclaim etc. And they do. Lots.
After the person has been here 6 months every car is illegal and can be seized if stopped. Unfortunately the number of officers able to do this is small, and falling.
Who and how is a record kept of how long any particular foreign car has been in the country? I very much doubt it's monitored proactively. Do UK ANPR cameras have the ability to read/identify foreign registration plates? As that would be about the only way there could be any chance of policing it. I suppose someone could be noting down every foreign registration plate as the cars roll off the chunnel, but then who keeps track of them after that?
Speed Badger said:
The dream would be to partner with the SIV folks (French DVLA records) for a bit of information sharing to start, then with most other EU countries. Issues with that are the language barriers, Western computer fonts and the fact we might get two fingers stuck up to us due to Brexit.
Already happening.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The UK have been able to request keeper details for anything EU registered for a couple of years. The UK have only just accepted they have to provide keeper details to other EU countries under the same legislation.
The Police might well shy away from dealing with foreign registered vehicles because of the many regulations involved.
For example, the rules say that a UK resident may not drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK, but there are exceptions for EU-based company owned vehicles being used for business purposes in the UK by UK-resident employees and for vehicles temporarily imported by non-EU residents under Customs Form 308 which can be driven by nominated UK residents. There is also a situation in respect of the British spouses of US forces based in the UK and with imported US registered cars.
There are customs dispensations for foreign vehicles brought into the UK for specific purposes for up to 12 months and which need to be driven by UK residents. An example of this would be a foreign registered rally car to be used by a UK resident driver and the team mechanics. They are issued with a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit which lists the purpose and the uses to which it may be put.
Then there is the issue of Brits who might live abroad, but return to the UK for various periods of time, possibly for work, during a year bringing with them a car registered in the country in which they live. They may well also have a UK address of their own. It means that technically if the individual worked here for 6 months and one day, the car would need to be registered, MoT'd and insured in the UK, but if it went back the day after that it would have to be re-registered back in the country from which it came. Each time the lights, etc, would need to be changed over for the MoT.
For the Police to try to sort this all out would require many man-hours which would not be productive for them but would eat up a lot of money. It is very confusing for all, but in the main the Police seem to be more concerned about whether these foreign registered vehicles have the necessary insurance.
For example, the rules say that a UK resident may not drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK, but there are exceptions for EU-based company owned vehicles being used for business purposes in the UK by UK-resident employees and for vehicles temporarily imported by non-EU residents under Customs Form 308 which can be driven by nominated UK residents. There is also a situation in respect of the British spouses of US forces based in the UK and with imported US registered cars.
There are customs dispensations for foreign vehicles brought into the UK for specific purposes for up to 12 months and which need to be driven by UK residents. An example of this would be a foreign registered rally car to be used by a UK resident driver and the team mechanics. They are issued with a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit which lists the purpose and the uses to which it may be put.
Then there is the issue of Brits who might live abroad, but return to the UK for various periods of time, possibly for work, during a year bringing with them a car registered in the country in which they live. They may well also have a UK address of their own. It means that technically if the individual worked here for 6 months and one day, the car would need to be registered, MoT'd and insured in the UK, but if it went back the day after that it would have to be re-registered back in the country from which it came. Each time the lights, etc, would need to be changed over for the MoT.
For the Police to try to sort this all out would require many man-hours which would not be productive for them but would eat up a lot of money. It is very confusing for all, but in the main the Police seem to be more concerned about whether these foreign registered vehicles have the necessary insurance.
OK but if I take my car abroad aiui I need to take with me the following, driver licence, V5C, insurance certificate, vehicle test certificate if required ie 3 year old or over.
Firstly, what happens if you don't have those documents and cannot produce upon request.
Secondly, do we place similar demands on drivers of foreign registered vehicles, if not, why not.
Firstly, what happens if you don't have those documents and cannot produce upon request.
Secondly, do we place similar demands on drivers of foreign registered vehicles, if not, why not.
I was told by my local plod (Devon And Cornwall) that they cannot even trace Northern Irish registered vehicles unless it has been flagged before, because they cannot access the database in Coleraine. This was in response to some gentlemen of South Irish origin offering to sell me some knives/matresses out the back of a NI registered Transit.
And that's part of the UK.
And that's part of the UK.
Tyre Smoke said:
I was told by my local plod (Devon And Cornwall) that they cannot even trace Northern Irish registered vehicles unless it has been flagged before, because they cannot access the database in Coleraine.
Coleraine closed three years ago - all NI driver and vehicle records are at Swansea.The foreign cars here can probably be divided into two groups, the first being driven by tourists and short visit business contractors, with the second being longer term residents on low wage jobs that have packed up their belongings and driven over for their 'new life'.
The former are more likely to be speeding up or down the M20 and are more likely to have roadworthy and legal vehicles.
The latter are less likely to be speeding anywhere (bar in areas with 'reduced' limits like average speed zones where they appear to regularly do it) but are far more likely to have unroadworthy and/or illegal vehicles without licences or insurance.
I don't particularly care about the former.
The latter should be more of an issue.
The former are more likely to be speeding up or down the M20 and are more likely to have roadworthy and legal vehicles.
The latter are less likely to be speeding anywhere (bar in areas with 'reduced' limits like average speed zones where they appear to regularly do it) but are far more likely to have unroadworthy and/or illegal vehicles without licences or insurance.
I don't particularly care about the former.
The latter should be more of an issue.
Cooperman said:
For example, the rules say that a UK resident may not drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK..
AFAIK, there's nothing in UK legislation which makes it unlawful per se.There are possible tax implications if you do.
among other exceptions to the tax rules (some of which you have mentioned), the EC has previously ruled that member states cannot levy such taxes if use of the foreign registered vehicle by a resident of another EU state is short term only.
Silverage said:
There's a Toyota people carrier thing I've seen around here (rural Lincolnshire) a couple of times on Ohio plates. Perfectly well driven but I imagine safe from any sort of comeback if he did decide to go rogue.
Probably perfectly legit. The septics like the flatlands for air bases.Tyre Smoke said:
I was told by my local plod (Devon And Cornwall) that they cannot even trace Northern Irish registered vehicles unless it has been flagged before, because they cannot access the database in Coleraine. This was in response to some gentlemen of South Irish origin offering to sell me some knives/matresses out the back of a NI registered Transit.
And that's part of the UK.
Funny you should say that - I was hit by an uninsured driver in Cornwall, who failed to stop. Got his reg and reported it, plod looked up the details while I was stood at the desk "are you sure about that number plate, it's apparently registered to someone in NI?" Unsurprisingly it was also uninsured. Plod investigation didn't go anywhere (suspect the extent of it was to send a NIP to the address on file and wait 28 days to not get a response), so I ended up claiming of my own insurance for £4k of damage repairs.And that's part of the UK.
I reckon there's a good chance you could just get some 'foreign looking' number plates knocked up, stick them on your UK registered vehicle and drive around for years without any problems.
Speed Badger said:
the tribester said:
Unfortunately most Police Officers shy away from foreign registered vehicles, putting it into the 'too difficult to deal with' box. Councils and Camera Partnerships likewise.
That's the problem I'm soon to be helping to deal with in Kent, the fact that foreign registered vehicles end up it the difficult box.The dream would be to partner with the SIV folks (French DVLA records) for a bit of information sharing to start, then with most other EU countries. Issues with that are the language barriers, Western computer fonts and the fact we might get two fingers stuck up to us due to Brexit.
It was enough of a pain in the arse to get the local council to stop ticketing unmarked police cars!
Basically - in the UK we prosecute the driver of the vehicle. So if a camera is triggered a letter (NIP) goes to the registered keeper asking who the driver was, in order that the law can be applied to the driver.
In the rest of Europe the registered keeper is responsible for the fine - there is no attempt to argue about who was driving at the time, if your car caused a fine to be issued then you get the pain.
So even if we get the registered keeper details of EU cars our law still demands that we prosecute the driver and not the RK, and the directive didn't include the obligation on the foreign RK to identify the driver - so there is no way to identify the driver and as such no way to apply the fine legally.
NinjaPower said:
donkmeister said:
You are of course correct, for me the issue is that the consequences for a British driver abroad are often worse than for a local, and still worse in the UK than for the foreign driver. Eg if a Brit is caught speeding in France they get marched to a cashpoint, licence confiscated, car confiscated etc by Judge Dredd-style gendarmes with no chance to appeal, yet reverse the situation and the foreign licenced speeder can get away with it.
I understand the police have taken to on the spot credit card fines for HGV drivers though.
That is no one else's fault but our own.I understand the police have taken to on the spot credit card fines for HGV drivers though.
There is no reason at all why we aren't impounding foreign vehicles left, right and centre, and marching foreign motorists to cash points and making them withdraw £500 if they speed or have a bald tyre.
We just choose not to, for reasons that I cannot fathom.
https://twitter.com/kentpoliceroads/status/8531808...
Order66 said:
There's a big issue with the cross borders enforcement directive which makes it ineffective in the UK, so nothing the Police can do and no amount of cooperation from foreign authorities will change.
Basically - in the UK we prosecute the driver of the vehicle. So if a camera is triggered a letter (NIP) goes to the registered keeper asking who the driver was, in order that the law can be applied to the driver.
In the rest of Europe the registered keeper is responsible for the fine - there is no attempt to argue about who was driving at the time, if your car cau8sed a fine to be issued then you get the pain.
So even if we get the registered keeper details of EU cars our law still demands that we prosecute the driver and not the RK, and the directive didn't include the obligation on the foreign RK to identify the driver - so there is no way to identify the driver and as such no way to apply the fine legally.
Sort of, but the problem is that we've gone down the electronic detection and enforcement route versus the organic version, ie mk1 eyeball and copper's nose for it. To use my example earlier, a right hand drive Transit, on French plates, loaded up with "any old iron, any old iron," should be prime target for a fishing expedition, camera and the resulting protocol cannot and will not do anything.Basically - in the UK we prosecute the driver of the vehicle. So if a camera is triggered a letter (NIP) goes to the registered keeper asking who the driver was, in order that the law can be applied to the driver.
In the rest of Europe the registered keeper is responsible for the fine - there is no attempt to argue about who was driving at the time, if your car cau8sed a fine to be issued then you get the pain.
So even if we get the registered keeper details of EU cars our law still demands that we prosecute the driver and not the RK, and the directive didn't include the obligation on the foreign RK to identify the driver - so there is no way to identify the driver and as such no way to apply the fine legally.
Thanks to Cameron, principally, with May as executioner, it's too late.
Silverage said:
There's a Toyota people carrier thing I've seen around here (rural Lincolnshire) a couple of times on Ohio plates. Perfectly well driven but I imagine safe from any sort of comeback if he did decide to go rogue.
Same here. The Aussie Audi seemingly obeys the rules of the road, but at the same time has absolutely nothing to fear from double yellow lines, parking tickets, council car parks, private car parks, speed cameras, bus lane tickets, congestion charges, camera vans, etc etcIf you moved over here why on earth would you change your plates?
Order66 said:
There's a big issue with the cross borders enforcement directive which makes it ineffective in the UK, so nothing the Police can do and no amount of cooperation from foreign authorities will change.
Basically - in the UK we prosecute the driver of the vehicle.
No, that's a flaw in UK law, not in the directive.Basically - in the UK we prosecute the driver of the vehicle.
We CAN take full advantage of it. We CHOOSE to have our own law set up so we can't.
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