How much trouble can you get into driving in Europe?
Discussion
cmaguire said:
All very tiresome.
I just don't GET why so much effort is put into enforcing something so subjective / variable / unlikely* to cause any harm. It must be nice to live in the world of the traffic cop (or SCP in the UK), where other crimes are so rare that they can focus all that attention on those dangerous speeders...
* I'm talking about the increasingly narrow tolerances, whereby e.g. 110km/h is safe but 112km/h is deserving of punishment - I'm not talking about seriously excessive speed.
havoc said:
I just don't GET why so much effort is put into enforcing something so subjective / variable / unlikely* to cause any harm. It must be nice to live in the world of the traffic cop (or SCP in the UK), where other crimes are so rare that they can focus all that attention on those dangerous speeders...
* I'm talking about the increasingly narrow tolerances, whereby e.g. 110km/h is safe but 112km/h is deserving of punishment - I'm not talking about seriously excessive speed.
If we were all honest about it, the manner of the speeding is virtually always more relevant than the speed itself. And virtually all speeding outside of urbanized areas is irrelevant, and plenty inside also.
Unfortunately the speeding con is being perpetuated wholesale these days.
There is a one-size-fits-all mentality now, which appears to be defined by the abilities of the most incompetent.
The bit that really galls me is having to pretend I'm sorry when caught, and then the whole loss of licence thing for something so irrelevant if that happens.
cmaguire said:
As someone that regularly travels in France, in my experience there is an ever increasing number of speed traps on the dualled roads and Autoroutes. Plus they are often majorly sneaky/devious about it also. This trip they collared me twice, relieved me of 180 Euros and told me 2kph more and they'd have my licence off me. The first time they were hiding up a slip road using bushes for cover and had me from behind (ouch). The second time was a frontal assault, this time hiding behind some greenery on the hard shoulder on a sliproad.
On another occasion on the same trip I exited a dual carraigeway up to a roundabout above the road I had been on, to circle it and onto another road. This time there was another one of them hiding behind a bush on the roundabout checking the road I had just left below. I suppose I got lucky that time.
All very tiresome.
If you were 2kph off losing your licence, then you must have been doing well north of 100mph. On another occasion on the same trip I exited a dual carraigeway up to a roundabout above the road I had been on, to circle it and onto another road. This time there was another one of them hiding behind a bush on the roundabout checking the road I had just left below. I suppose I got lucky that time.
All very tiresome.
havoc said:
cmaguire said:
All very tiresome.
I just don't GET why so much effort is put into enforcing something so subjective / variable / unlikely* to cause any harm. It must be nice to live in the world of the traffic cop (or SCP in the UK), where other crimes are so rare that they can focus all that attention on those dangerous speeders...
* I'm talking about the increasingly narrow tolerances, whereby e.g. 110km/h is safe but 112km/h is deserving of punishment - I'm not talking about seriously excessive speed.
I drive a fair bit all over Europe; touch wood, I haven't had a ticket yet, there are always a good number pushing on, to drop in behind and use as cover.
I do plenty of driving around Europe so can give some info....
Switzerland...because I drive here every day...
Urban 50, 60, 80kph - keep close to the limit. +5 maximum. There are rarely cops but many cameras.
Highways.... coming in at Basel on the German side, DO NOT SPEED AT ALL. There is a Christmas Party camera catching LOTS just after the border.
More highways...... on the French side, there are occasional cameras in the 120kph zone. There is also one when you leave St Gallen for Zurich. I don't know what these trigger at.... you can tell me if you want...! On the highways, be at the speed limit for road works, tunnels and anything under the 120kph limit - this is prime camera country.
Mountain passes...... just be careful. I've been quite fast over some of the passes in car and on bike.
Austria.....because I am always going to Kitzbuhel.
The highway through Tirol has cameras here and there. It is also tugged down to 100kph for most of the way - 'Umweltschutz'. It's been like that for years, I go through at about 115kph indicated and have not been flashed. I did see in the papers that it does create a nice Christmas fund so who knows what they trigger at. Urban areas have some cameras too, in short, avoid speeding where you can kill kittens!! The Brenner into Sud Tirol is nice but busy and prone to weather changes.
Italy. It's just mental but don't be scared and go with it. I've done lots of car and bike there and I only respect the 50 and 60 limits. The Tutor system apparently is like the SPECS in the UK, I know someone who was done by it just before and just after midnight. Two fines, if he sped more and got caught before midnight, it would be one offence!! As he is Italian, he paid up and paid the extra to not identify himself....
I also know two lads racing in a Cerbera and Ferrari who were waved on by the cops.... 
Cities are fine, parking is a free-for-all and there is a live-and-let-live attitude about things. Heck, I have been through ZTLs followed by police and I know I should not be there.....foreign plates, I no speaka tha lingo, buddy!
Germany. Awesome but packed in places. I know Munich well and roads to there for me are unlimited in many places. Also everyone speeds in Munich except on the Ring. Where there are cameras. Elsewhere I know they have random stops and cameras but don't stick out and you'll be fine.
Luxembourg. Fuel up. I only drive on the highway there and the surface encourages progression.
And then you're in Belgium. They. Are. Crap. There are some cameras. Belgian drives are terrible.
France. Autoroute is fine for 160kph. Towns with 110/90 limits will have cameras, I did smile once for one but they did not send the mugshot. That was a shame..... I did not notice as many cameras in urban areas....there are some but not loads.
Spain. I think it's not bad, I've never noticed cameras. If it rains, it's carnage, they are not used to that at all.....
Most of Europe has priority to right rules. If there are no road markings at a junction, pay attention. You probably don't have priority and the locals will try to kill you!!
One thing not mentioned..........trams. Do not hit one or get hit by one, it is your fault whichever way it goes.....!!!
Have fun, it's safe out here....!
Switzerland...because I drive here every day...
Urban 50, 60, 80kph - keep close to the limit. +5 maximum. There are rarely cops but many cameras.
Highways.... coming in at Basel on the German side, DO NOT SPEED AT ALL. There is a Christmas Party camera catching LOTS just after the border.
More highways...... on the French side, there are occasional cameras in the 120kph zone. There is also one when you leave St Gallen for Zurich. I don't know what these trigger at.... you can tell me if you want...! On the highways, be at the speed limit for road works, tunnels and anything under the 120kph limit - this is prime camera country.
Mountain passes...... just be careful. I've been quite fast over some of the passes in car and on bike.
Austria.....because I am always going to Kitzbuhel.
The highway through Tirol has cameras here and there. It is also tugged down to 100kph for most of the way - 'Umweltschutz'. It's been like that for years, I go through at about 115kph indicated and have not been flashed. I did see in the papers that it does create a nice Christmas fund so who knows what they trigger at. Urban areas have some cameras too, in short, avoid speeding where you can kill kittens!! The Brenner into Sud Tirol is nice but busy and prone to weather changes.
Italy. It's just mental but don't be scared and go with it. I've done lots of car and bike there and I only respect the 50 and 60 limits. The Tutor system apparently is like the SPECS in the UK, I know someone who was done by it just before and just after midnight. Two fines, if he sped more and got caught before midnight, it would be one offence!! As he is Italian, he paid up and paid the extra to not identify himself....
I also know two lads racing in a Cerbera and Ferrari who were waved on by the cops.... Cities are fine, parking is a free-for-all and there is a live-and-let-live attitude about things. Heck, I have been through ZTLs followed by police and I know I should not be there.....foreign plates, I no speaka tha lingo, buddy!Germany. Awesome but packed in places. I know Munich well and roads to there for me are unlimited in many places. Also everyone speeds in Munich except on the Ring. Where there are cameras. Elsewhere I know they have random stops and cameras but don't stick out and you'll be fine.
Luxembourg. Fuel up. I only drive on the highway there and the surface encourages progression.
And then you're in Belgium. They. Are. Crap. There are some cameras. Belgian drives are terrible.
France. Autoroute is fine for 160kph. Towns with 110/90 limits will have cameras, I did smile once for one but they did not send the mugshot. That was a shame..... I did not notice as many cameras in urban areas....there are some but not loads.
Spain. I think it's not bad, I've never noticed cameras. If it rains, it's carnage, they are not used to that at all.....
Most of Europe has priority to right rules. If there are no road markings at a junction, pay attention. You probably don't have priority and the locals will try to kill you!!
One thing not mentioned..........trams. Do not hit one or get hit by one, it is your fault whichever way it goes.....!!!
Have fun, it's safe out here....!
Just returned from a 1300 mile road trip through northern Spain and into Portugal. Only saw police on one junction in the
middle of nowhere and on a road at the top of a mountain where there was a dead cyclist lying in the road. (No cars involved so probably a heart attack. It was a 20 mile uphill climb from the nearest town)
Our driving was brisk and we had no issues. Motorway lane discipline was exemplary and on non motorways people would pull over to let us past. There were a few speed cameras on the motorway, but they were all signed about a mile beforehand.
Returning to the UK was horrible. Our drivers are ignorant of their surroundings, vague and generally crap.
middle of nowhere and on a road at the top of a mountain where there was a dead cyclist lying in the road. (No cars involved so probably a heart attack. It was a 20 mile uphill climb from the nearest town)
Our driving was brisk and we had no issues. Motorway lane discipline was exemplary and on non motorways people would pull over to let us past. There were a few speed cameras on the motorway, but they were all signed about a mile beforehand.
Returning to the UK was horrible. Our drivers are ignorant of their surroundings, vague and generally crap.
Amateurish said:
cmaguire said:
As someone that regularly travels in France, in my experience there is an ever increasing number of speed traps on the dualled roads and Autoroutes. Plus they are often majorly sneaky/devious about it also. This trip they collared me twice, relieved me of 180 Euros and told me 2kph more and they'd have my licence off me. The first time they were hiding up a slip road using bushes for cover and had me from behind (ouch). The second time was a frontal assault, this time hiding behind some greenery on the hard shoulder on a sliproad.
On another occasion on the same trip I exited a dual carraigeway up to a roundabout above the road I had been on, to circle it and onto another road. This time there was another one of them hiding behind a bush on the roundabout checking the road I had just left below. I suppose I got lucky that time.
All very tiresome.
If you were 2kph off losing your licence, then you must have been doing well north of 100mph. On another occasion on the same trip I exited a dual carraigeway up to a roundabout above the road I had been on, to circle it and onto another road. This time there was another one of them hiding behind a bush on the roundabout checking the road I had just left below. I suppose I got lucky that time.
All very tiresome.
That one was in a 110 limit, they had me for 156, which after they knock the 5% bonus off became 148.
40 kph over and you're in confiscated licence territory.
Doing less than 100mph is tedious on any main road, I'd do between that and max velocity of whatever I happened to be in/on if possible.
The chance of getting caught has me doing just shy of 100 here or 110mph there mostly.
But it would be like shelling peas to crack on at way higher speeds, a lot of the Autoroutes are better than the Autobahn where strangely anything goes.
The second one was near Calais, they didn't bother telling how the extra 3kph would have me at +40. A mile earlier and they wouldn't have needed to.
Edited by cmaguire on Thursday 28th September 17:45
REALIST123 said:
It's not like that. If the limit is 110 you're very unlikely to get stopped at 112. cmaguire seems to have been caught at a speed that warranted a fine and was close to a speed that would have warranted more. Doesn't seem unreasonable.
I drive a fair bit all over Europe; touch wood, I haven't had a ticket yet, there are always a good number pushing on, to drop in behind and use as cover.
The tolerances are way lower in France than here, I've passed cameras on the Autoroute doing perhaps 136kph in a 130 and had them flash.I drive a fair bit all over Europe; touch wood, I haven't had a ticket yet, there are always a good number pushing on, to drop in behind and use as cover.
Obviously pre May '17, who gave a damn.
Yes: in a way.
Purchased a car in the South of France, (I was fully insured etc to drive it) and drove it home on the French plates. Camera outside the port. I revived the fine in the post because the guy I purchased it from gave my address as he had only sold it the day before. I had date and time signed the change of ownership.
I ignored it, nothing happened.
Purchased a car in the South of France, (I was fully insured etc to drive it) and drove it home on the French plates. Camera outside the port. I revived the fine in the post because the guy I purchased it from gave my address as he had only sold it the day before. I had date and time signed the change of ownership.
I ignored it, nothing happened.
I've been going into Europe with a bunch of friends 3 times a year for 5 years now in a variety of cars from hot hatches to supercars.
De restricted Autobahns - flat out subject to traffic
Motorways - speed limit plus 20% ish except in Switzerland where we stick to the limits
A roads - limit plus 20% ish but using common sense on open stretches where police are likely to be lurking
Mountain passes - drive it as we see it, at the pace each driver is happy with which in some cases is fairly rapid
In towns/built up areas - absolutely adhere to the limit and anyone who didn't wouldn't be welcome again and would likely get a b
king off the rest of the guys
We've had no tickets whatsoever except when one of our party realised they had left their passport in Innsbruck when we arrived in Garda and didn't stick to the rules above on Italian motorways. 600 euro fine. I've been stopped twice. Once in Holland for a spot check (in a Ferrari so understandable) and once in Switzerland for similar at a check point.
No incidents either but everyone is experienced and sensible and we'll naturally split into groups based on what car we're in and driver experience. No one drives beyond their abilities and egos aren't welcome. Nor is anyone pressured to do anything they aren't comfortable with. We're all staying at the same hotel that evening anyway.
However, we use radios to communicate whether it's clear and safe to overtake etc and also use the old 'stay out with indicator on' thing to show cars behind it's clear to overtake. It's become more organised as the year's have gone by.
To be honest we're there for the passes and the roads between them are just to get from one to the other so we save most of the quicker driving for the twisties.
Bit of video from a previous trip here. Plenty more on my channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFIDRUOv7AA
De restricted Autobahns - flat out subject to traffic
Motorways - speed limit plus 20% ish except in Switzerland where we stick to the limits
A roads - limit plus 20% ish but using common sense on open stretches where police are likely to be lurking
Mountain passes - drive it as we see it, at the pace each driver is happy with which in some cases is fairly rapid
In towns/built up areas - absolutely adhere to the limit and anyone who didn't wouldn't be welcome again and would likely get a b
king off the rest of the guysWe've had no tickets whatsoever except when one of our party realised they had left their passport in Innsbruck when we arrived in Garda and didn't stick to the rules above on Italian motorways. 600 euro fine. I've been stopped twice. Once in Holland for a spot check (in a Ferrari so understandable) and once in Switzerland for similar at a check point.
No incidents either but everyone is experienced and sensible and we'll naturally split into groups based on what car we're in and driver experience. No one drives beyond their abilities and egos aren't welcome. Nor is anyone pressured to do anything they aren't comfortable with. We're all staying at the same hotel that evening anyway.
However, we use radios to communicate whether it's clear and safe to overtake etc and also use the old 'stay out with indicator on' thing to show cars behind it's clear to overtake. It's become more organised as the year's have gone by.
To be honest we're there for the passes and the roads between them are just to get from one to the other so we save most of the quicker driving for the twisties.
Bit of video from a previous trip here. Plenty more on my channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFIDRUOv7AA
Edited by _Leg_ on Thursday 28th September 23:28
blueg33 said:
Just returned from a 1300 mile road trip through northern Spain and into Portugal. Only saw police on one junction in the
middle of nowhere and on a road at the top of a mountain where there was a dead cyclist lying in the road. (No cars involved so probably a heart attack. It was a 20 mile uphill climb from the nearest town)
Our driving was brisk and we had no issues. Motorway lane discipline was exemplary and on non motorways people would pull over to let us past. There were a few speed cameras on the motorway, but they were all signed about a mile beforehand.
Returning to the UK was horrible. Our drivers are ignorant of their surroundings, vague and generally crap.
Apart from the dead cyclist, we experienced exactly the same this summer. From Santander to the corner of Spain then down to Lisbon. Spent about 4 days doing the journey & the roads / traffic / driving standards were fantastic. Came back through the centre of Portugal / Spain back to Santander and exactly the same.middle of nowhere and on a road at the top of a mountain where there was a dead cyclist lying in the road. (No cars involved so probably a heart attack. It was a 20 mile uphill climb from the nearest town)
Our driving was brisk and we had no issues. Motorway lane discipline was exemplary and on non motorways people would pull over to let us past. There were a few speed cameras on the motorway, but they were all signed about a mile beforehand.
Returning to the UK was horrible. Our drivers are ignorant of their surroundings, vague and generally crap.
Back in the UK, Portsmouth back to Lancashire was bloody awful.
northwest monkey said:
blueg33 said:
Just returned from a 1300 mile road trip through northern Spain and into Portugal. Only saw police on one junction in the
middle of nowhere and on a road at the top of a mountain where there was a dead cyclist lying in the road. (No cars involved so probably a heart attack. It was a 20 mile uphill climb from the nearest town)
Our driving was brisk and we had no issues. Motorway lane discipline was exemplary and on non motorways people would pull over to let us past. There were a few speed cameras on the motorway, but they were all signed about a mile beforehand.
Returning to the UK was horrible. Our drivers are ignorant of their surroundings, vague and generally crap.
Apart from the dead cyclist, we experienced exactly the same this summer. From Santander to the corner of Spain then down to Lisbon. Spent about 4 days doing the journey & the roads / traffic / driving standards were fantastic. Came back through the centre of Portugal / Spain back to Santander and exactly the same.middle of nowhere and on a road at the top of a mountain where there was a dead cyclist lying in the road. (No cars involved so probably a heart attack. It was a 20 mile uphill climb from the nearest town)
Our driving was brisk and we had no issues. Motorway lane discipline was exemplary and on non motorways people would pull over to let us past. There were a few speed cameras on the motorway, but they were all signed about a mile beforehand.
Returning to the UK was horrible. Our drivers are ignorant of their surroundings, vague and generally crap.
Back in the UK, Portsmouth back to Lancashire was bloody awful.
blueg33 said:
northwest monkey said:
blueg33 said:
Just returned from a 1300 mile road trip through northern Spain and into Portugal. Only saw police on one junction in the
middle of nowhere and on a road at the top of a mountain where there was a dead cyclist lying in the road. (No cars involved so probably a heart attack. It was a 20 mile uphill climb from the nearest town)
Our driving was brisk and we had no issues. Motorway lane discipline was exemplary and on non motorways people would pull over to let us past. There were a few speed cameras on the motorway, but they were all signed about a mile beforehand.
Returning to the UK was horrible. Our drivers are ignorant of their surroundings, vague and generally crap.
Apart from the dead cyclist, we experienced exactly the same this summer. From Santander to the corner of Spain then down to Lisbon. Spent about 4 days doing the journey & the roads / traffic / driving standards were fantastic. Came back through the centre of Portugal / Spain back to Santander and exactly the same.middle of nowhere and on a road at the top of a mountain where there was a dead cyclist lying in the road. (No cars involved so probably a heart attack. It was a 20 mile uphill climb from the nearest town)
Our driving was brisk and we had no issues. Motorway lane discipline was exemplary and on non motorways people would pull over to let us past. There were a few speed cameras on the motorway, but they were all signed about a mile beforehand.
Returning to the UK was horrible. Our drivers are ignorant of their surroundings, vague and generally crap.
Back in the UK, Portsmouth back to Lancashire was bloody awful.
4 of us in a quite loaded up Citroen Crosser weighed a bit...
Loved it though!
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