How much trouble can you get into driving in Europe?
Discussion
The plan is to just use the Autobahns to get from France to Bregenz as quickly as possible. And it's the only place I'll legally be able to do 190mph, circumstances permitting. It's the sudden switch from those sections to limited sections that I'm somewhat concerned about being caught out in. Shouldn't need green passes for that should I?
Austria is on the plan because I want to enter Italy via the Stelvio pass.
Switzerland in case take a wrong turning and end up there by accident :-D
Italy is the whole point of the trip. But no further south than Siena.
France is included because it's in the way of everything else, though Rheims will be a definite stop en route. Maybe a lap or two of the old GP circuit.
Monaco, well, it's there, might as well. It's only an overnight stop, so we'll probably do a slow lap of the GP circuit (as much as you can anyway) and then park up till the morning.
Austria is on the plan because I want to enter Italy via the Stelvio pass.
Switzerland in case take a wrong turning and end up there by accident :-D
Italy is the whole point of the trip. But no further south than Siena.
France is included because it's in the way of everything else, though Rheims will be a definite stop en route. Maybe a lap or two of the old GP circuit.
Monaco, well, it's there, might as well. It's only an overnight stop, so we'll probably do a slow lap of the GP circuit (as much as you can anyway) and then park up till the morning.
a said:
French drivers are aggressive pains in the ass with the driving standards of a hamster and permanent red mist - they will aim for you... That's when you're in a French car. With British plates... Good luck.
However, as much as they will hate you, they hate the police more. When they flash you, it usually means there are cops around the corner so beware.
If you have British plates the cops will stop you at their "random" stops, every single time. They will not speak English with you and if your French grammar is anything less than perfect prepare for a very long spell in high security prison. Make sure you have all your paperwork, high-vis jacket, spare bulbs, etc.
Also if you park a British car in a city centre, even if you follow all the rules and pay & display, you will get ticketed every day. 10 years ago the correct course of action was to deposit the ticket in a bin. I'm not sure if this still applies today or if they have any way to track you down.
Also - roundabouts have no rules. Don't treat them like you do in the UK or you'll crash. Embrace the madness - any lane can go to any exit and you can use any lane to do as many loops of the roundabout as you wish. You must check over your shoulder before exiting and be prepared for a car to be there 50% of the time.
I have British reg'd cars in France and a lot of this simply isn't true. In about 50k miles of French driving I've only been stopped twice, both times when I was doing something wrong. Both times they spoke English with me even though I speak fluent French. I go through checkpoints every couple of weeks and have never been stopped, quite possibly because they don't fancy the hassle of having to deal with all my paperwork.However, as much as they will hate you, they hate the police more. When they flash you, it usually means there are cops around the corner so beware.
If you have British plates the cops will stop you at their "random" stops, every single time. They will not speak English with you and if your French grammar is anything less than perfect prepare for a very long spell in high security prison. Make sure you have all your paperwork, high-vis jacket, spare bulbs, etc.
Also if you park a British car in a city centre, even if you follow all the rules and pay & display, you will get ticketed every day. 10 years ago the correct course of action was to deposit the ticket in a bin. I'm not sure if this still applies today or if they have any way to track you down.
Also - roundabouts have no rules. Don't treat them like you do in the UK or you'll crash. Embrace the madness - any lane can go to any exit and you can use any lane to do as many loops of the roundabout as you wish. You must check over your shoulder before exiting and be prepared for a car to be there 50% of the time.
The law has recently changed and they MAY be able to send speeding fines home, but not parking fines. So, should you wish, you can park up, not pay and throw any fines in the bin. Should you pay and display, you won't get a ticket any more than you would back in the UK.
My experience from driving to central Italy and South of France a number of times in my own car over the past 7 years (not local rentals)...
Italy - Have to watch for speed traps on minor roads entering towns, but I pretty much drove at whatever speed I felt comfortable at on the motorways (>120 most of the time). Pretty sure I set every speed camera off round the Milan equivalent of the M25, and never had any come back.
Switzerland - Drove conservatively (90ish) due to massive fines (and potential for car confiscation and jail) if you get caught doing anything even remotely silly.
France - Took it steady for the 1st 30 miles in and out of Calais, but then settled in to whatever the fastest traffic was flowing at (but observed limits coming in to toll booths). Seldom below 90, long periods at 100, and higher if I found a couple of Dutch or Germans to tag along with. For all the talk about Gendarmes, I've only seen one speed trap on the autoroute (just outside Lyon)... though both my brother-in-law and Father-in-law got caught on the same route the following day (both doing just over 90, both received relatively small on the spot fines). Set a number of speed cameras off... no follow-up.
Italy - Have to watch for speed traps on minor roads entering towns, but I pretty much drove at whatever speed I felt comfortable at on the motorways (>120 most of the time). Pretty sure I set every speed camera off round the Milan equivalent of the M25, and never had any come back.
Switzerland - Drove conservatively (90ish) due to massive fines (and potential for car confiscation and jail) if you get caught doing anything even remotely silly.
France - Took it steady for the 1st 30 miles in and out of Calais, but then settled in to whatever the fastest traffic was flowing at (but observed limits coming in to toll booths). Seldom below 90, long periods at 100, and higher if I found a couple of Dutch or Germans to tag along with. For all the talk about Gendarmes, I've only seen one speed trap on the autoroute (just outside Lyon)... though both my brother-in-law and Father-in-law got caught on the same route the following day (both doing just over 90, both received relatively small on the spot fines). Set a number of speed cameras off... no follow-up.
Edited by Chris Stott on Tuesday 23 May 16:53
Out of the countries you will be visiting, I have driven in France, Germany and Austria.
France was great. The Gens D'Armes left us alone and I didn’t notice any speed cameras. There are many rules though regarding what you need to carry in your car with you. The most important from memory was a hi-vis and breathalyzers.
Germany had lots of hidden speed cameras, and I managed to set off three while there. As another poster has mentioned, they like situating these cameras near speed limit changes, such as entering a village. I got caught out twice by these and once by what I thought was a derestricted autobahn, but obviously wasn’t from the camera flash. I was also stopped twice; once at a Polizei checkpoint, and the other at a petrol station just to check my papers. Neither resulted in anything other than wasted time, and I never heard anything from the cameras I was caught on.
Austria was the worse for me, although it didn’t help I was travelling to a car event which is heavily policed. There was lots of Polizei checkpoints and lots of Polizei on the road too. It didn’t take much to receive a fine and I had the pleasure of €1000 fine for car defects. Also, as mentioned by another poster, you will need a vignette to travel on many of their main roads. These can be bought at most petrol stations before crossing the Austrian border and from memory were less than €15.
I have also driven in Belgium which was probably the worse country I have ever driven in. Total nightmare to navigate through and traffic everywhere.
Overall though enjoy yourself and don’t take the piss and you shouldn’t have too much bother!
France was great. The Gens D'Armes left us alone and I didn’t notice any speed cameras. There are many rules though regarding what you need to carry in your car with you. The most important from memory was a hi-vis and breathalyzers.
Germany had lots of hidden speed cameras, and I managed to set off three while there. As another poster has mentioned, they like situating these cameras near speed limit changes, such as entering a village. I got caught out twice by these and once by what I thought was a derestricted autobahn, but obviously wasn’t from the camera flash. I was also stopped twice; once at a Polizei checkpoint, and the other at a petrol station just to check my papers. Neither resulted in anything other than wasted time, and I never heard anything from the cameras I was caught on.
Austria was the worse for me, although it didn’t help I was travelling to a car event which is heavily policed. There was lots of Polizei checkpoints and lots of Polizei on the road too. It didn’t take much to receive a fine and I had the pleasure of €1000 fine for car defects. Also, as mentioned by another poster, you will need a vignette to travel on many of their main roads. These can be bought at most petrol stations before crossing the Austrian border and from memory were less than €15.
I have also driven in Belgium which was probably the worse country I have ever driven in. Total nightmare to navigate through and traffic everywhere.
Overall though enjoy yourself and don’t take the piss and you shouldn’t have too much bother!
Switzerland was interesting.
Flat out in an Evo v all the way from the Italian border to the French border, never saw a police car and only one speed camera.
Since that trip I have read up on the possible consequences of that and have never driven in Switzerland again !
Was fun though.
Northern Italy though is epic, like the uk in the 80's
Flat out in an Evo v all the way from the Italian border to the French border, never saw a police car and only one speed camera.
Since that trip I have read up on the possible consequences of that and have never driven in Switzerland again !
Was fun though.
Northern Italy though is epic, like the uk in the 80's
blueg33 said:
Useful thread. Any tips for Spain and Portugal?
By far the friendliest countries in Europe if you like to make progress. Local rozzers are more interested in catching drunk drivers than fast drivers, for which they have my complete support.Being chock-full of lightly-trafficked, perfectly-surfaced twisties and being great countries to visit in their own right are bonuses
Just back from Germany.
Got flashed by a camera again - forgot that speed limits very often drop from 100km/h to 70km/h at junctions on their A and B road equivalents. Yes, I should have seen the sign, but I missed it and sailed through just above the limit.
I've never bothered with an Umwelt sticker - local police didn't bother me about it, either. Even in Berlin.
There are increasingly speed limited stretches of Autobahn out there - and lots of road works. Opportunities to really stretch the legs of your car are few and far between these days. I managed to wind up the camper van to 125mph and my BMW last year to 140mph, but then ran out of clear road.
Apparently fines for setting off cameras for minor offences are very low - the wife googled when I set the camera off last week.
The fine for no Vignette is severe in Austria and Switzerland. Don't much warm to Switzerland, but Austria is great. Stelvio isn't as good as people say it is, though! Timmelsjoch is just plain scary!
Got flashed by a camera again - forgot that speed limits very often drop from 100km/h to 70km/h at junctions on their A and B road equivalents. Yes, I should have seen the sign, but I missed it and sailed through just above the limit.
I've never bothered with an Umwelt sticker - local police didn't bother me about it, either. Even in Berlin.
There are increasingly speed limited stretches of Autobahn out there - and lots of road works. Opportunities to really stretch the legs of your car are few and far between these days. I managed to wind up the camper van to 125mph and my BMW last year to 140mph, but then ran out of clear road.
Apparently fines for setting off cameras for minor offences are very low - the wife googled when I set the camera off last week.
The fine for no Vignette is severe in Austria and Switzerland. Don't much warm to Switzerland, but Austria is great. Stelvio isn't as good as people say it is, though! Timmelsjoch is just plain scary!
Trabi601 said:
Apparently fines for setting off cameras for minor offences are very low - the wife googled when I set the camera off last week.
AFAIK There is also no way for them to make you pay.The recent cross-border enforcement directive only gives foreign governments access to your details - they can send you a letter detailing a fine, but they have absolutely no powers to enforce it.
There have been rumours also of the fine being passed on to "debt collection" agencies, who try and hassle you to pay, but again they have no legal powers in the UK so are relying on you caving in to pressure to pay the fine (+ their "fees").
Also (again, as far as I am aware and stand to be collected) in the event you get stopped by the police in that country they have no powers to make you pay for old-offences (only the one they stopped you for).
So aside from the fact you might get a letter, nothing really has changed.
I realise that Norway isn't in your plans but this may apply in other countries as wel...
In Norway there are toll roads but no toll booths for payment. You can pay in advance and each time you pass a camera your number plate is read and some cash is taken from your deposit. Alternatively you can just wait for the bills to come in and pay them then. If you pay within a reasonably short time the cost is the same as if you had paid in advance. I believe that they can chase these payments internationally; they are tolls and not fines.
In Norway there are toll roads but no toll booths for payment. You can pay in advance and each time you pass a camera your number plate is read and some cash is taken from your deposit. Alternatively you can just wait for the bills to come in and pay them then. If you pay within a reasonably short time the cost is the same as if you had paid in advance. I believe that they can chase these payments internationally; they are tolls and not fines.
If I get a fine, I'll pay it. The last thing you want is being pulled for non-payment at some point in the future! - we sometimes drive to Germany and sometimes fly... I can imagine German immigration police being particularly humourless if you rock up at an airport with unpaid fines against your name.
Yipper said:
Italians hide a lot of speedcams at the entry and exit points of towns and villages where roads instantly shift from, say, 100kph to 50kph limit. They are the main ones to avoid.
And with a UK plate you can certainly ignore any fines, if you even receive them which is highly unlikely.In fact any of the mentioned countries you can do the same. The problem lies if you are caught and locked up or held 'hostage' until you pay up and/or have your licence taken off you and can't drive there anymore. I think the worst of these are likely to be Switzerland and France.
catso said:
And with a UK plate you can certainly ignore any fines, if you even receive them which is highly unlikely.
In fact any of the mentioned countries you can do the same. The problem lies if you are caught and locked up or held 'hostage' until you pay up and/or have your licence taken off you and can't drive there anymore. I think the worst of these are likely to be Switzerland and France.
Bad advice since the middle of the month:In fact any of the mentioned countries you can do the same. The problem lies if you are caught and locked up or held 'hostage' until you pay up and/or have your licence taken off you and can't drive there anymore. I think the worst of these are likely to be Switzerland and France.
https://www.theaa.com/european-breakdown-cover/dri...
Trabi601 said:
and as I said above, if you read carefully it just gives them your name/address - they have no legislation that can make you pay from the UK, the debt collection agencies mentioned are private companies and are powerless to make you pay.Order66 said:
and as I said above, if you read carefully it just gives them your name/address - they have no legislation that can make you pay from the UK, the debt collection agencies mentioned are private companies and are powerless to make you pay.
And as I said - I would't want to risk being pulled by border guards for unpaid fines.(Edited for spelling muppetry)
Edited by Trabi601 on Tuesday 23 May 19:57
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