Soldiers vs Armed Police
Discussion
PurpleAki said:
Are you among the moderators here?
Why do you need a moderator to tell you to stop ? This forum is largely self regulating, or should aspire to be so. Personal attacks on other posters who may irritate you just aren't cricket, it's not the first time you have done so.
Try to post something positive about the discussion.
>> Ref small arms ammunition. Plod will be using a mix of ammo dependent on requirements & while its been a cpl of years since I spoke to a cousin of mine who is merseyside armed plod they were using sub-sonic ammo in the likes of G36's that they were equipped with at the time.
I have think your cuz mush have had his wires crossed about the subsonic ammo: subsonic in 5.56/.223 would be about one-third of the usual velocity and would be quite anemic. Would only have about the same muzzle energy as a 22LR (which are a lighter bullet but which are just supersonic) and unless you are a rabbit, a 22LR isn't exactly known for stopping power. Plus would subsonic 5.56/.223 even produce enough gas to cycle the gun?
Would make more sense for plod to use a 9mm MP5, which they did previously use, if they were worried about over-penetration.
I have think your cuz mush have had his wires crossed about the subsonic ammo: subsonic in 5.56/.223 would be about one-third of the usual velocity and would be quite anemic. Would only have about the same muzzle energy as a 22LR (which are a lighter bullet but which are just supersonic) and unless you are a rabbit, a 22LR isn't exactly known for stopping power. Plus would subsonic 5.56/.223 even produce enough gas to cycle the gun?
Would make more sense for plod to use a 9mm MP5, which they did previously use, if they were worried about over-penetration.
Edited by creampuff on Wednesday 31st May 13:37
Some Guy said:
I dont think either of them will be patrolling the streets with .50BMG. Nothing else is likely to scrap a diesel engine, other than a lucky hit to a fuel pump.
Most of the weapons deployed appear to be 5.56 NATO chambered. Most popular being the M16 derivatives I.e. the Colt C8, H&K G36 and the venerable 9mm MP5 and the 5.56 SIG 550 and 516 series. The Army tend to use the Colt and the SA80. All of them are effective againest Targets with personal armou. Hence such as the Paris attackers coming up against UK armed Police would find themselves in trouble.Edited by telecat on Wednesday 31st May 13:45
telecat said:
the venerable MP5 and SIG 550 and 516 series. The Army tend to use the Colt and the SA80. All of them are effective againest Targets with personal armour hence such as the Paris attackers coming up against UK armed Police would find themselves in trouble.
Correction to the MP5: the MP5 fires 9mm pistol cartridges or there are some other variants which fire other pistol calibers such as .40 S&W. But always pistol calibers ( beautiful gun btw, I have a semi-automatic 22LR version). AFAIK the police switched away from the MP5 to rifle calibers i.e. 5.56 NATO, as 9mm is ineffective against targets with body armour. A "bullet proof" vest will stop pistol bullets, but rifle bullets will go straight through it unless it has additional and bulky steel/ceramic plates. creampuff said:
Correction to the MP5: the MP5 fires 9mm pistol cartridges or there are some other variants which fire other pistol calibers such as .40 S&W. But always pistol calibers ( beautiful gun btw, I have a semi-automatic 22LR version). AFAIK the police switched away from the MP5 to rifle calibers i.e. 5.56 NATO, as 9mm is ineffective against targets with body armour. A "bullet proof" vest will stop pistol bullets, but rifle bullets will go straight through it unless it has additional and bulky steel/ceramic plates.
Already corrected as I noticed it seemed to imply the 5.56. I would expect them to be using the FN P90 or the H&K MP7 in place these days but it seems that moving away from 5.56MM or 9MM is frowned on. Having said that I see the MOD and Metropolitan Police use the MP7.As a side note, I don't see a problem with having all police armed with a pistol all of the time, but in terms of the purpose of stopping terrorists with one of the millions of black market rifles available in Europe and the Balkans.... having routinely armed police likely makes little difference to having specialist armed police. If a terrorist is running around with an AK-47 and you only have a pistol, you are f
ked.
ked. creampuff said:
As a side note, I don't see a problem with having all police armed with a pistol all of the time, but in terms of the purpose of stopping terrorists with one of the millions of black market rifles available in Europe and the Balkans.... having routinely armed police likely makes little difference to having specialist armed police. If a terrorist is running around with an AK-47 and you only have a pistol, you are fked.
I see a problem with it. As soon as officers carry weapons every single interaction with a suspect becomes a life or death situation and consequently people get shot when they needn't (look at the US). Also whilst our firearms officers are generally fit, well trained and seem competent to carry the weapons they bear could you honestly say the same for every police officer you've ever met or seen? How we work now is better.ked. ^ Most police all over the world are routinely armed. In fact they almost all are armed with the exceptions countable on the fingers of one hand. I don't see interactions with French or German police all becoming "life and death". Is there something unique about British plod which makes them as a whole unfit to carry a pistol when pretty much everyone else's plod does, usually without incident?
creampuff said:
^ Most police all over the world are routinely armed. In fact they almost all are armed with the exceptions countable on the fingers of one hand. I don't see interactions with French or German police all becoming "life and death". Is there something unique about British plod which makes them as a whole unfit to carry a pistol when pretty much everyone else's plod does, usually without incident?
Indeed, the difference being in America, you can routinely expect criminals to be armed, which isn't the case here. Arming all frontline police in the UK would only make for a safer society. TurboHatchback said:
creampuff said:
As a side note, I don't see a problem with having all police armed with a pistol all of the time, but in terms of the purpose of stopping terrorists with one of the millions of black market rifles available in Europe and the Balkans.... having routinely armed police likely makes little difference to having specialist armed police. If a terrorist is running around with an AK-47 and you only have a pistol, you are fked.
I see a problem with it. As soon as officers carry weapons every single interaction with a suspect becomes a life or death situation and consequently people get shot when they needn't (look at the US). Also whilst our firearms officers are generally fit, well trained and seem competent to carry the weapons they bear could you honestly say the same for every police officer you've ever met or seen? How we work now is better.ked. In the UK we have probably the best relationship between the public and the police of anywhere I've been or heard about, I suspect this is in no small part due to the lack of firearms. Armed officers must deal with suspects in a much more stand-off fashion to avoid their weapons being taken. Also what would it achieve? Firearms are thankfully rare in the UK and in the event of a serious terrorist roving shooter attack PC plod with a 9mm and 13 rounds isn't going to be much help, serious dudes with long weapons and the proficiency to use them properly are required.
Gargamel said:
Except if you arm the police then criminals will do the same.
From the gunshop on the corner or the millions of weapons freely in circulation, right? 
I was saying the police should be armed as a matter of routine. I wasn't advocating allowing civilians access to guns on a wide scale. The two are not intrinsically linked.
Gargamel said:
Personal attacks on other posters who may irritate you just aren't cricket.
You consider this:-The whole thing hinges on whether Ginetta G15 Girl is involved...
A personal attack?
It was light-hearted jesting as people were having a joke at the expense of the RAF, of which she was a member, I believe.
I've never spoken to anyone on here the way she has, on multiple occasions.
Have you ever advised to her to post more positively or politely?
ellroy said:
On the subject of crab air.
I did get told the following day that I'd do more damage with my pistol if I took it out of its holster and threw it at the enemy
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