Deposit cock up with tenancy , am I screwed?
Discussion
V8LM said:
Tenants have finally moved out of our place.
We've had to have contractors in to clean, remove the crap, replace the carpets, refit the bathroom, fill in holes in the wall, replace fence panels, ...
Pay the Council Tax, ...
This after 7 months of them paying NO rent.
And now we have to write to them to ask for them to release the deposit!
Are you sure you're liable for the council tax?We've had to have contractors in to clean, remove the crap, replace the carpets, refit the bathroom, fill in holes in the wall, replace fence panels, ...
Pay the Council Tax, ...
This after 7 months of them paying NO rent.
And now we have to write to them to ask for them to release the deposit!
I agree,
Not sure why you would be liable for the council tax. As long as the local authority was made aware who was living there.
Also if a dispute is likely to arise why not inform the deposit scheme immediately so it's resolved as quick as possible.
It is my expectation to go in every property and give it a bit of a clean after every tenant moves out. Toilets wiped down and bleached etc. This is regardless of how well they cleaned it.
Not sure if we have been lucky, but most of our tenants have been long term and they've all respected the properties. Worse cases have been a couple of broken toilet seats, which they accepted the deposit deduction on.
Not sure why you would be liable for the council tax. As long as the local authority was made aware who was living there.
Also if a dispute is likely to arise why not inform the deposit scheme immediately so it's resolved as quick as possible.
It is my expectation to go in every property and give it a bit of a clean after every tenant moves out. Toilets wiped down and bleached etc. This is regardless of how well they cleaned it.
Not sure if we have been lucky, but most of our tenants have been long term and they've all respected the properties. Worse cases have been a couple of broken toilet seats, which they accepted the deposit deduction on.
Edited by mikebradford on Monday 29th May 07:29
garyhun said:
The Moose said:
Are you sure you're liable for the council tax?
He's not. The council may well try to get it from the LL as it's an easy option to try - but there is no legal right as far as I know.anonymous said:
[redacted]
We recently rented a house - It was NOT cleaned at all other than a quick wipedown of the kitchen surfaces , bathroom and a hoover.There was lots of shower scum, dust etc. The oven was horrific.
So when we hand it back we will ensure it's in the same state as when we found it.... t
ts. xjay1337 said:
We recently rented a house - It was NOT cleaned at all other than a quick wipedown of the kitchen surfaces , bathroom and a hoover.
There was lots of shower scum, dust etc. The oven was horrific.
So when we hand it back we will ensure it's in the same state as when we found it.... tts.
You should take photos if they show the level of (non) cleaning and also write to the agent informing them that the property was not properly cleaned and let them know this is what the state will be at the end. Just to cover yourself.There was lots of shower scum, dust etc. The oven was horrific.
So when we hand it back we will ensure it's in the same state as when we found it.... t
ts. garyhun said:
You should take photos if they show the level of (non) cleaning and also write to the agent informing them that the property was not properly cleaned and let them know this is what the state will be at the end. Just to cover yourself.
We did some handover form that listed all of the damage / wear and tear and we made big notes - NOT CLEAN and have mentioned in several emails.xjay1337 said:
garyhun said:
You should take photos if they show the level of (non) cleaning and also write to the agent informing them that the property was not properly cleaned and let them know this is what the state will be at the end. Just to cover yourself.
We did some handover form that listed all of the damage / wear and tear and we made big notes - NOT CLEAN and have mentioned in several emails.
Good stuff.i think central London maybe ahead of the curve here? International clientele may be part of the reason.
Professional clean and inventory checkout is normal, conducted by third-parties. this keeps everything standard, with pictures and video.
Defining "clean" to be something defined by any one tenant or landlord is always going to be problematic.
Professional clean and inventory checkout is normal, conducted by third-parties. this keeps everything standard, with pictures and video.
Defining "clean" to be something defined by any one tenant or landlord is always going to be problematic.
We were in a one rented house for 12 months. It was a 'private' LL (i.e. not a professional), renting out their 'new' house while they saved up to renovate it and relocate. So it wasn't exceptionally clean when we moved it, not filthy, but it had been empty for a couple of months, so it had got quite dusty by then, and certainly wasn't well/professionally cleaned by the previous owner when they'd vacated.
During the tenancy, we'd bent over backwards to help out the LL - lived with problems rather than insisting they put faults right. The electric oven broke down, and we were without it for a couple of weeks til the LL got round to coming down to get it sorted. He then dragged a replacement one out of his uncle's barn, that had clearly been sat there for years, so was absolutely filthy. I cleaned it and fitted it myself.
When we came to leave, we were told by the LL "don't worry about getting professional cleaners in, we're gutting the place anyway". A week after vacating I went back (by arrangement) to recover a few items that we'd left in the shed by mistake. LL walked me through the house proudly showing me all the building work in progress. It was a bomb site, pretty much a bare shell. Partition walls pulled out, trench dug through the middle of the kitchen solid floor for a new waste pipe, kitchen and bathroom fittings both ripped out. Two days later, we got a letter saying they were keeping our deposit as the house hadn't been left clean enough!
My parent's are landlords with a couple of student lets. Every year they were left in various states (sometimes presentable, other times awful). They accepted this as part of the deal, and have never once deducted from anyone's deposit for cleaning (or even minor accidental damage for that matter). They didn't charge a premium for rent either. Now they're let out to families as long term tenants, as it's just less hassle than finding new student tenants every year.
Like most things in life, you get good landlords and bad ones, good tenants and bad ones. It's easy to base your judgement on one bad tenant/LL, but there are plenty of good examples of both as well.
During the tenancy, we'd bent over backwards to help out the LL - lived with problems rather than insisting they put faults right. The electric oven broke down, and we were without it for a couple of weeks til the LL got round to coming down to get it sorted. He then dragged a replacement one out of his uncle's barn, that had clearly been sat there for years, so was absolutely filthy. I cleaned it and fitted it myself.
When we came to leave, we were told by the LL "don't worry about getting professional cleaners in, we're gutting the place anyway". A week after vacating I went back (by arrangement) to recover a few items that we'd left in the shed by mistake. LL walked me through the house proudly showing me all the building work in progress. It was a bomb site, pretty much a bare shell. Partition walls pulled out, trench dug through the middle of the kitchen solid floor for a new waste pipe, kitchen and bathroom fittings both ripped out. Two days later, we got a letter saying they were keeping our deposit as the house hadn't been left clean enough!
My parent's are landlords with a couple of student lets. Every year they were left in various states (sometimes presentable, other times awful). They accepted this as part of the deal, and have never once deducted from anyone's deposit for cleaning (or even minor accidental damage for that matter). They didn't charge a premium for rent either. Now they're let out to families as long term tenants, as it's just less hassle than finding new student tenants every year.
Like most things in life, you get good landlords and bad ones, good tenants and bad ones. It's easy to base your judgement on one bad tenant/LL, but there are plenty of good examples of both as well.
PAULJ5555 said:
Here in wales you now need a licence to be a private LL or you can have an agent manage the property for a fee.
£30 to register with the National Assembly For Wales
£100-200 for a days training or £20 online. You have to read through the law pages and pages takes you most of the day and then you have to sit an exam with 50 questions.
£144 to WAFW to get your licence.
Although the dodgy ones wont even bother with a licence so it wont really help, it just gives the sensible ones a bit more knowledge.
This is just an additional tax on the legal landlords. Another worthless initiative, creating pointless jobs and costing us money.£30 to register with the National Assembly For Wales
£100-200 for a days training or £20 online. You have to read through the law pages and pages takes you most of the day and then you have to sit an exam with 50 questions.
£144 to WAFW to get your licence.
Although the dodgy ones wont even bother with a licence so it wont really help, it just gives the sensible ones a bit more knowledge.
As you say, the dodgy ones aren't going to do this, so what is the point.
alfabeat said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Here in wales you now need a licence to be a private LL or you can have an agent manage the property for a fee.
£30 to register with the National Assembly For Wales
£100-200 for a days training or £20 online. You have to read through the law pages and pages takes you most of the day and then you have to sit an exam with 50 questions.
£144 to WAFW to get your licence.
Although the dodgy ones wont even bother with a licence so it wont really help, it just gives the sensible ones a bit more knowledge.
This is just an additional tax on the legal landlords. Another worthless initiative, creating pointless jobs and costing us money.£30 to register with the National Assembly For Wales
£100-200 for a days training or £20 online. You have to read through the law pages and pages takes you most of the day and then you have to sit an exam with 50 questions.
£144 to WAFW to get your licence.
Although the dodgy ones wont even bother with a licence so it wont really help, it just gives the sensible ones a bit more knowledge.
As you say, the dodgy ones aren't going to do this, so what is the point.
https://thenegotiator.co.uk/rent-smart-wales-landl...
>> I'm assuming I am fked as I didn't do things properly , am I better returning the whole bond and swallowing the hit ? I don't have a leg to stand on do
I'll give this advice as a long time landlord and without reading all 5 pages of this thread:
Let it go. Forget about it. The tenant has been there paying rent for 5 years and now they are going into a care home.
Their situation is not the best while you have had 5 years of steady rent, which is well longer than a typical tenancy. Had you had just one change of tenant in those 5 years, it would have cost you more than this amount in question in lost rent etc.
I'll give this advice as a long time landlord and without reading all 5 pages of this thread:
Let it go. Forget about it. The tenant has been there paying rent for 5 years and now they are going into a care home.
Their situation is not the best while you have had 5 years of steady rent, which is well longer than a typical tenancy. Had you had just one change of tenant in those 5 years, it would have cost you more than this amount in question in lost rent etc.
Update for those interested, tenant's son is going to take it to court but has asked if I would like to offer a settlement figure. I offered compensation of the original bond value plus 20%. Tenant's son declined and offered to accept 3 x the bond amount (so the maximum penalty in court).
I expect I will be restating my original offer as the tenant has suffered no loss whatsoever and indeed I have a signed agreement with her from the start of the tenancy agreeing for me to hold the bond and forfeiting it in the event of her leaving the property within 5 years to cover the significant cost of reinstalling the disabled access facilities for her use.
I understand that this doesn't exempt me from the law regarding TDS but I feel that given I have done everything to make her tenancy as pleasant as possible for her and returned her entire bond very quickly it should hopefully sit well with the court.
I expect I will be restating my original offer as the tenant has suffered no loss whatsoever and indeed I have a signed agreement with her from the start of the tenancy agreeing for me to hold the bond and forfeiting it in the event of her leaving the property within 5 years to cover the significant cost of reinstalling the disabled access facilities for her use.
I understand that this doesn't exempt me from the law regarding TDS but I feel that given I have done everything to make her tenancy as pleasant as possible for her and returned her entire bond very quickly it should hopefully sit well with the court.
Grunt Futtock said:
Update for those interested, tenant's son is going to take it to court but has asked if I would like to offer a settlement figure. I offered compensation of the original bond value plus 20%. Tenant's son declined and offered to accept 3 x the bond amount (so the maximum penalty in court).
I expect I will be restating my original offer as the tenant has suffered no loss whatsoever and indeed I have a signed agreement with her from the start of the tenancy agreeing for me to hold the bond and forfeiting it in the event of her leaving the property within 5 years to cover the significant cost of reinstalling the disabled access facilities for her use.
I understand that this doesn't exempt me from the law regarding TDS but I feel that given I have done everything to make her tenancy as pleasant as possible for her and returned her entire bond very quickly it should hopefully sit well with the court.
Not sure about the "forfeiting" holding much water but trouble may be that there are No Win No Fee sharks out there that may take this on for them.I expect I will be restating my original offer as the tenant has suffered no loss whatsoever and indeed I have a signed agreement with her from the start of the tenancy agreeing for me to hold the bond and forfeiting it in the event of her leaving the property within 5 years to cover the significant cost of reinstalling the disabled access facilities for her use.
I understand that this doesn't exempt me from the law regarding TDS but I feel that given I have done everything to make her tenancy as pleasant as possible for her and returned her entire bond very quickly it should hopefully sit well with the court.
Grunt Futtock said:
Update for those interested, tenant's son is going to take it to court but has asked if I would like to offer a settlement figure. I offered compensation of the original bond value plus 20%. Tenant's son declined and offered to accept 3 x the bond amount (so the maximum penalty in court).
I expect I will be restating my original offer as the tenant has suffered no loss whatsoever and indeed I have a signed agreement with her from the start of the tenancy agreeing for me to hold the bond and forfeiting it in the event of her leaving the property within 5 years to cover the significant cost of reinstalling the disabled access facilities for her use.
I understand that this doesn't exempt me from the law regarding TDS but I feel that given I have done everything to make her tenancy as pleasant as possible for her and returned her entire bond very quickly it should hopefully sit well with the court.
Oops. Not ideal!I expect I will be restating my original offer as the tenant has suffered no loss whatsoever and indeed I have a signed agreement with her from the start of the tenancy agreeing for me to hold the bond and forfeiting it in the event of her leaving the property within 5 years to cover the significant cost of reinstalling the disabled access facilities for her use.
I understand that this doesn't exempt me from the law regarding TDS but I feel that given I have done everything to make her tenancy as pleasant as possible for her and returned her entire bond very quickly it should hopefully sit well with the court.
Grunt Futtock said:
Update for those interested, tenant's son is going to take it to court but has asked if I would like to offer a settlement figure. I offered compensation of the original bond value plus 20%. Tenant's son declined and offered to accept 3 x the bond amount (so the maximum penalty in court).
I expect I will be restating my original offer as the tenant has suffered no loss whatsoever and indeed I have a signed agreement with her from the start of the tenancy agreeing for me to hold the bond and forfeiting it in the event of her leaving the property within 5 years to cover the significant cost of reinstalling the disabled access facilities for her use.
I understand that this doesn't exempt me from the law regarding TDS but I feel that given I have done everything to make her tenancy as pleasant as possible for her and returned her entire bond very quickly it should hopefully sit well with the court.
You'll be paying him 3x the deposit, and if you're lucky you might just retain some cash to cover refurbishment. Let this be a lesson to you.I expect I will be restating my original offer as the tenant has suffered no loss whatsoever and indeed I have a signed agreement with her from the start of the tenancy agreeing for me to hold the bond and forfeiting it in the event of her leaving the property within 5 years to cover the significant cost of reinstalling the disabled access facilities for her use.
I understand that this doesn't exempt me from the law regarding TDS but I feel that given I have done everything to make her tenancy as pleasant as possible for her and returned her entire bond very quickly it should hopefully sit well with the court.
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