MET parking thieves
Discussion
Jamesgt said:
The problem with this particular car park and the petrol station next door is it is FULL of private hire drivers. It's frustrating when you want food from either of the three and you can't find anywhere to park due to cabs. The cameras don't combat this problem.
If it goes as far as court how does this work? I've been sent a final demand for £100 despite me contesting. If they just hound me with fines when do I get go to court?
Can't be true, you managed 24 hours ...If it goes as far as court how does this work? I've been sent a final demand for £100 despite me contesting. If they just hound me with fines when do I get go to court?
Jamesgt said:
If it goes as far as court how does this work? I've been sent a final demand for £100 despite me contesting. If they just hound me with fines when do I get go to court?
Just go through Popla, MET even give you the paperwork that tells you what to do that has their verification code on the back (I still have ours here so just checked this for you). This should be on the letter they send back to you contesting it. PurpleMoonlight said:
Needs to be based on simple trespass to me, with a legislative fixed penalty that landowners and operators can impose.
The problem with Trespass is that it can only be brought by the landowner, and the only penalty as such is the hypothetical value of the benefit received by the person trespassing. So a few quid for a couple of hours parking for example.More significant though is that trespass can be remedied by an injunction, the consequence of breaching that is much more effective and potentially punitive .
Just ask UKPC who had an injunction made against them after trespassing on a tenants freehold car parking space (R. Davey v UKPC, Winchester Crown Court 23rd January 2013)
S11Steve said:
The problem with Trespass is that it can only be brought by the landowner, and the only penalty as such is the hypothetical value of the benefit received by the person trespassing. So a few quid for a couple of hours parking for example.
So change the law, that is what the Government is there for.PurpleMoonlight said:
singlecoil said:
Problem is, there's more voters looking for somewhere to park than there is landowners trying to keep other people's cars off their property.
Overall it's a relatively small proportion of drivers that are so selfish and think it's okay to park on someone elses private property. I doubt any Government would lose anything meaningful.
hole parkers.S11Steve said:
Since then I have treated every PPC with equal contempt and scorn, and actively enjoy taunting and defeating them.
A friend of mine got charged by a supermarket and had a fair bit of trouble in fighting them. Same sort of circs. Registered coming in but not out. He left behind a van and he assumes it blocked his number. For some time after, years in fact, he had a 'false' number plate which he attached to his car on the way in.Childish of course, but that wasn't the only reason for doing it.
PurpleMoonlight said:
So change the law, that is what the Government is there for.
True, but whilst the DVLA is earning £10m a year from private parking companies for supplying keeper details, I can't see much enthusiasm to kill off that cash cow. Also, changing a centuries old fundamental legal concept is not going to be easy, cheap, or simple.Derek Smith said:
A friend of mine got charged by a supermarket and had a fair bit of trouble in fighting them. Same sort of circs. Registered coming in but not out. He left behind a van and he assumes it blocked his number. For some time after, years in fact, he had a 'false' number plate which he attached to his car on the way in.
Childish of course, but that wasn't the only reason for doing it.
I have heard on reasonably good authority that the registration plate of a vehicle belonging to the CEO of a well known parking organisation was once cloned and driven into a number of car parks operated by a rival organisation....Childish of course, but that wasn't the only reason for doing it.
S11Steve said:
True, but whilst the DVLA is earning £10m a year from private parking companies for supplying keeper details, I can't see much enthusiasm to kill off that cash cow. Also, changing a centuries old fundamental legal concept is not going to be easy, cheap, or simple.
Landowners would still likely need the info from DVLA, and if levying the penalty was easier the chances more would so DVLA will make even more money from our data.Jamesgt said:
If it goes as far as court how does this work?
You're clearly new to this game as you shouldn't have waited this long to ask for advice/help.Don't get hung up about court yet. See below.
Jamesgt said:
I've been sent a final demand for £100 despite me contesting.
By whom? The PPC or a DCA (Debt Collection Agency). If the latter, ignore them: they are just bluff and bluster.How did you contest it? I hope you didn't phone them. That's a rookie error.
Have you made a formal appeal in writing to the PPC and received a rejection letter?
If so they must provide you with a POPLA code so that you can challenge it there.
See the BPA CoP Section 22.12 - http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AO...
If they haven't done so, demand it.
Jamesgt said:
If they just hound me with fines when do I get go to court?
Firstly, get the word 'fine' out of your head. It is nothing of the sort, merely an invoice.It will be dealt with in a civil court - either on the basis of a tort (trespass) or a breach of contract, - not a criminal one.
If/when will be up to the PPC, but you should be able to defeat it before then at POPLA provided you get your ducks in a row.
Read this and this. Check out all the links.
Jamesgt said:
I asked MET to check their cameras but now they want evidence of my story such as vehicle tracking! F-ing vehicle tracking!!??
They have no incentive to do so and would much rather try to put the burden of proof (of a negative: you weren't there) onto you.However if you have anything* to show that you were elsewhere between the two parking events that will be excellent ammunition for a POPLA appeal.
A POPLA decision in your favour is binding on the PPC. The reverse is not the case. You can still opt to argue your case in front of a judge if the PPC issues court papers..
* e.g. a time stamped till receipt from petrol station or a shop etc. etc.
Jamesgt said:
They say a bird may have flown in front of the camera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTYJamesgt said:
and they tell me the technology isn't perfect.
A damning admission. I assume this was verbal rather than in writing... 
Red Devil said:
Jamesgt said:
If it goes as far as court how does this work?
You're clearly new to this game as you shouldn't have waited this long to ask for advice/help.Don't get hung up about court yet. See below.
Jamesgt said:
I've been sent a final demand for £100 despite me contesting.
By whom? The PPC or a DCA (Debt Collection Agency). If the latter, ignore them: they are just bluff and bluster.How did you contest it? I hope you didn't phone them. That's a rookie error.
Have you made a formal appeal in writing to the PPC and received a rejection letter?
If so they must provide you with a POPLA code so that you can challenge it there.
See the BPA CoP Section 22.12 - http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AO...
If they haven't done so, demand it.
Jamesgt said:
If they just hound me with fines when do I get go to court?
Firstly, get the word 'fine' out of your head. It is nothing of the sort, merely an invoice.It will be dealt with in a civil court - either on the basis of a tort (trespass) or a breach of contract, - not a criminal one.
If/when will be up to the PPC, but you should be able to defeat it before then at POPLA provided you get your ducks in a row.
Read this and this. Check out all the links.
Jamesgt said:
I asked MET to check their cameras but now they want evidence of my story such as vehicle tracking! F-ing vehicle tracking!!??
They have no incentive to do so and would much rather try to put the burden of proof (of a negative: you weren't there) onto you.However if you have anything* to show that you were elsewhere between the two parking events that will be excellent ammunition for a POPLA appeal.
A POPLA decision in your favour is binding on the PPC. The reverse is not the case. You can still opt to argue your case in front of a judge if the PPC issues court papers..
* e.g. a time stamped till receipt from petrol station or a shop etc. etc.
Jamesgt said:
They say a bird may have flown in front of the camera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTYJamesgt said:
and they tell me the technology isn't perfect.
A damning admission. I assume this was verbal rather than in writing... Received first letter along with photos in April. I rang them to say check your cameras. They say appeal it via their website. So i immediately appealed it via their website with "check your cameras". Then I receive a letter yesterday from PPC stating final demand of payment before it passes to legal team. So I rang them which is when they stated the technology isn't perfect so I need to provide further proof of my cars whereabouts during the period I say I wasn't at the car park. Vehicle tracking was used as an example.
I guess I'm just naive. I'm not sure wtf they think I was going overnight in McDonald's?! If I was a mini cab driver it would also make zero sense to stay there for that amount of time.
Just an update on this. I thought I was in the clear. I went to McDonald's to see if they could revoke a parking charge (Aldi did it for my mum so worth a go). Mcdonalds manager was very helpful and seemed well versed on what to do next. She gave me her email address and told me to forward on the details. I did this the same day and heard nothing back for a few weeks. I then had another nasty letter from MET. I went straight to McD and complained again. I was told the other manager had not sent all the details required in the email for MET to cancel the charge. I was told "not to worry, she will sort it out now". A few weeks pass and now I've just got home to a letter from a debt collector (DRP) demanding payment by today!
Am I buggered? I've actually just contacted McDonald's and they've now told me I should have taken the issue with Starbucks next door as it isn't McDonald's car park. FFS!!
Am I buggered? I've actually just contacted McDonald's and they've now told me I should have taken the issue with Starbucks next door as it isn't McDonald's car park. FFS!!
Jamesgt said:
Just an update on this. I thought I was in the clear. I went to McDonald's to see if they could revoke a parking charge (Aldi did it for my mum so worth a go). Mcdonalds manager was very helpful and seemed well versed on what to do next. She gave me her email address and told me to forward on the details. I did this the same day and heard nothing back for a few weeks. I then had another nasty letter from MET. I went straight to McD and complained again. I was told the other manager had not sent all the details required in the email for MET to cancel the charge. I was told "not to worry, she will sort it out now". A few weeks pass and now I've just got home to a letter from a debt collector (DRP) demanding payment by today!
Am I buggered? I've actually just contacted McDonald's and they've now told me I should have taken the issue with Starbucks next door as it isn't McDonald's car park. FFS!!
Were you not advised, on here, to ignore the PPC (MET) and simply take it through the independent appeals process (POPLA) - talking to McDonald's or Starbucks is unlikely to get the ticket cancelled as despite them 'owning' the land, they will have given over responsibility of policing it to the PPC.Am I buggered? I've actually just contacted McDonald's and they've now told me I should have taken the issue with Starbucks next door as it isn't McDonald's car park. FFS!!
It is them you need to challenge. Using POPLA and with evidence that your car was elsewhere during the period it was allegedly 'parked' there.
I understand I wasn't advised to approach McDonald's. My mum's first hand expirience of something similar in Aldi was all rectified by simply approaching a manager in Aldi. I tried the same at McDonald's and was filled with hope (rubbish) so I decided to waste no more effort on it as McDonald's managers insisted it would go no further. So here I am, another nasty letter and it appears to have escalated.
timetex said:
Were you not advised, on here, to ignore the PPC (MET) and simply take it through the independent appeals process (POPLA) - talking to McDonald's or Starbucks is unlikely to get the ticket cancelled as despite them 'owning' the land, they will have given over responsibility of policing it to the PPC.
It is them you need to challenge. Using POPLA and with evidence that your car was elsewhere during the period it was allegedly 'parked' there.
You wont get anywhere near POPLA without engaging with MET though. It is them you need to challenge. Using POPLA and with evidence that your car was elsewhere during the period it was allegedly 'parked' there.
SantaBarbara said:
Just tell them that you were not driving the vehicle
Crap advice. Sorry.PPCs have powers to go after the RK these days, as 'I wasn't driving, I can't possibly have entered a parking contract with you' was an easy get-out in the good old days.
OP - I just hope you aren't outside the POPLA appeals window.
If you are, I'm afraid you've only yourself to blame. This is the correct route, and always worth doing as it costs the PPC money to defend thus hitting them where it hurts anyway.
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