MET parking thieves
Discussion
MitchT said:
I recall something similar happening in my neck of the woods ... found the article:
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/local/l...
The driver is right. They are patronising. Just admit the system is sh*t and leave people alone. http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/local/l...
speedyguy said:
Jamesgt said:
OpulentBob said:
There are signs in the Starbucks car park specifically saying they will charge people who park there and use the Macdonalds. I was there about 3 hours ago. If you drive in to Starbucks, the spaces on the left hand side have the sign behind them. I read it from the car and thought of this thread.
Thanks for that. I've never bothered to read those signs. Reality is I didn't park over night in either car park. I've spoke to someone in work who says they have cctv for 6 months. This will show my car and me turning up to work at the time MET accuse me of settling in for the night at the car park. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/strateg...
I think it depends on whether the Starbucks is classed as part of the "service area", or whether service just means the petrol station. Is coffee a service?!
B28 of that document also may be applicable here, at a push.
The Starbucks sign does not conflict with Starbucks policy of 2 hours for Starbucks customers, I guess is their get out. If you use their facility, then you comply.
But yeah you could probably (maybe) make a case if you dug right down in to the regs and definitions etc, and could convince whoever that Starbucks is part of the same overall facility as the petrol station or Macs. Which, to a road user, they are.
Difficult one!
OpulentBob said:
Sorry, I missed this earlier. You raise a good point, the document clearly says that up to 2 hours free parking in the service area is mandatory if signed from the trunk road, which it clearly is.
I think it depends on whether the Starbucks is classed as part of the "service area", or whether service just means the petrol station. Is coffee a service?!
B28 of that document also may be applicable here, at a push.
The Starbucks sign does not conflict with Starbucks policy of 2 hours for Starbucks customers, I guess is their get out. If you use their facility, then you comply.
But yeah you could probably (maybe) make a case if you dug right down in to the regs and definitions etc, and could convince whoever that Starbucks is part of the same overall facility as the petrol station or Macs. Which, to a road user, they are.
Difficult one!
I missed this also. Probably not relevant for my case but the petrol station at the services which includes M&S has recently installed PPC. They are giving you 30 minutes maximum. So this contravenes the 2 hours mandatory rest? I think it depends on whether the Starbucks is classed as part of the "service area", or whether service just means the petrol station. Is coffee a service?!
B28 of that document also may be applicable here, at a push.
The Starbucks sign does not conflict with Starbucks policy of 2 hours for Starbucks customers, I guess is their get out. If you use their facility, then you comply.
But yeah you could probably (maybe) make a case if you dug right down in to the regs and definitions etc, and could convince whoever that Starbucks is part of the same overall facility as the petrol station or Macs. Which, to a road user, they are.
Difficult one!
SantaBarbara said:
It costs two pounds at Stanstead just to drop someone off in the express car park
John Lennon airport is much better and cheaper
I think it's all a con with these smaller airports. Gatwick and Heathrow are the main airports for the U.K. They manage to do a free drop off period. John Lennon airport is much better and cheaper
Jamesgt said:
OpulentBob said:
Sorry, I missed this earlier. You raise a good point, the document clearly says that up to 2 hours free parking in the service area is mandatory if signed from the trunk road, which it clearly is.
I think it depends on whether the Starbucks is classed as part of the "service area", or whether service just means the petrol station. Is coffee a service?!
B28 of that document also may be applicable here, at a push.
The Starbucks sign does not conflict with Starbucks policy of 2 hours for Starbucks customers, I guess is their get out. If you use their facility, then you comply.
But yeah you could probably (maybe) make a case if you dug right down in to the regs and definitions etc, and could convince whoever that Starbucks is part of the same overall facility as the petrol station or Macs. Which, to a road user, they are.
Difficult one!
I missed this also. Probably not relevant for my case but the petrol station at the services which includes M&S has recently installed PPC. They are giving you 30 minutes maximum. So this contravenes the 2 hours mandatory rest? I think it depends on whether the Starbucks is classed as part of the "service area", or whether service just means the petrol station. Is coffee a service?!
B28 of that document also may be applicable here, at a push.
The Starbucks sign does not conflict with Starbucks policy of 2 hours for Starbucks customers, I guess is their get out. If you use their facility, then you comply.
But yeah you could probably (maybe) make a case if you dug right down in to the regs and definitions etc, and could convince whoever that Starbucks is part of the same overall facility as the petrol station or Macs. Which, to a road user, they are.
Difficult one!
Caveats are whether or not the reference document has been superseded, which I don't think it has, and whether the Sec of State has issued a departure from standard for it. Very restrictive waiting times are very common in airport areas so I'd be surprised if it hadn't come up before.
PS as your case is over 2 hrs it's prob inapplicable as you say but def worth using as a defence if anyone else is in the situation, I would say. You can reasonably expect the services to offer what the regulations dictate, no matter how obscure the regulations. The regs are there for a reason 
Be good to hear from a legal eagle what their opinion would be if it went to court or some sort of trubunal?
Be good to hear from a legal eagle what their opinion would be if it went to court or some sort of trubunal?
OpulentBob said:
Jamesgt said:
OpulentBob said:
Sorry, I missed this earlier. You raise a good point, the document clearly says that up to 2 hours free parking in the service area is mandatory if signed from the trunk road, which it clearly is.
I think it depends on whether the Starbucks is classed as part of the "service area", or whether service just means the petrol station. Is coffee a service?!
B28 of that document also may be applicable here, at a push.
The Starbucks sign does not conflict with Starbucks policy of 2 hours for Starbucks customers, I guess is their get out. If you use their facility, then you comply.
But yeah you could probably (maybe) make a case if you dug right down in to the regs and definitions etc, and could convince whoever that Starbucks is part of the same overall facility as the petrol station or Macs. Which, to a road user, they are.
Difficult one!
I missed this also. Probably not relevant for my case but the petrol station at the services which includes M&S has recently installed PPC. They are giving you 30 minutes maximum. So this contravenes the 2 hours mandatory rest? I think it depends on whether the Starbucks is classed as part of the "service area", or whether service just means the petrol station. Is coffee a service?!
B28 of that document also may be applicable here, at a push.
The Starbucks sign does not conflict with Starbucks policy of 2 hours for Starbucks customers, I guess is their get out. If you use their facility, then you comply.
But yeah you could probably (maybe) make a case if you dug right down in to the regs and definitions etc, and could convince whoever that Starbucks is part of the same overall facility as the petrol station or Macs. Which, to a road user, they are.
Difficult one!
Caveats are whether or not the reference document has been superseded, which I don't think it has, and whether the Sec of State has issued a departure from standard for it. Very restrictive waiting times are very common in airport areas so I'd be surprised if it hadn't come up before.
I was under the impression that the time limit (whatever it may be) applies to the entire site. I wasn't aware that the operator can cherry pick parts of it.
I was at Birchanger services a couple of months ago. It never occurred to me to look at the signage as I knew I wouldn't be stopping for anywhere near two hours.
Will need to give it the full Mk1 eyeball next time I'm there.
.
The garage owner won't have a say in it. When the sign went in, the services had a 2hr limit so the sign was correctly placed by the HA.
Since it's changed to 30mins, there are 2 options:
Either the HA/HE are unaware, in which case when they realise/get a report, they will act on;
Or they know, and have allowed it to stay by putting in the request to the SoS, on the basis that it's not really a truck stop, and will fill up with taxis etc (worded far more eloquently obvs) and been awarded a departure to allow the sign to stay, rather than to make the garage allow 2hrs.
Disclaimer: I was actually one of the designers of the new road, must have designed that sign, but I'm buggered if I can remember anything about it now
Since it's changed to 30mins, there are 2 options:
Either the HA/HE are unaware, in which case when they realise/get a report, they will act on;
Or they know, and have allowed it to stay by putting in the request to the SoS, on the basis that it's not really a truck stop, and will fill up with taxis etc (worded far more eloquently obvs) and been awarded a departure to allow the sign to stay, rather than to make the garage allow 2hrs.
Disclaimer: I was actually one of the designers of the new road, must have designed that sign, but I'm buggered if I can remember anything about it now
OpulentBob said:
The garage owner won't have a say in it. When the sign went in, the services had a 2hr limit so the sign was correctly placed by the HA.
Since it's changed to 30mins, there are 2 options:
Either the HA/HE are unaware, in which case when they realise/get a report, they will act on;
Or they know, and have allowed it to stay by putting in the request to the SoS, on the basis that it's not really a truck stop, and will fill up with taxis etc (worded far more eloquently obvs) and been awarded a departure to allow the sign to stay, rather than to make the garage allow 2hrs.
Disclaimer: I was actually one of the designers of the new road, must have designed that sign, but I'm buggered if I can remember anything about it now
Bob and Red devil Since it's changed to 30mins, there are 2 options:
Either the HA/HE are unaware, in which case when they realise/get a report, they will act on;
Or they know, and have allowed it to stay by putting in the request to the SoS, on the basis that it's not really a truck stop, and will fill up with taxis etc (worded far more eloquently obvs) and been awarded a departure to allow the sign to stay, rather than to make the garage allow 2hrs.
Disclaimer: I was actually one of the designers of the new road, must have designed that sign, but I'm buggered if I can remember anything about it now
There has been no authorisation from the SofS or HE for these or any services. But it is only policy technically the signage should come down from the road network.
The TRSA (trunk road service area) signing is a mess/muddle as it has been neglected for years many of the signage is legacy and much of it is unlawful now. Transport focus (who haven't got a scoobies) wanted it looking at. I went to a meeting about it in Area 3 in December, then handed my notice in the following week. (Ex Highways England Policy advisor, Roadside facilities
) ps Bob do you know Graham H ?S11Steve said:
How would you combat selfish drivers if you were a landowner though? Let's assume you cannot put a physical barrier in place.
A barrier, anpr on entry, receipt scan and anpr on exit, over stay or no receipt and get charged an appropriate amount, £10 an hour or whatever, put your card in the barrier and get your car out. Don't pay, cant get out.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff