Fracking Protestors

[jet_noise]

Is it not for the greater good that abundant cheap energy is provided?
It is on such that the essentials (and indeed luxuries ) of life are based - medical care, food, the V8.
It is the lack of same that causes ill health and poverty - (so called) third world countries. (Except possibly for the V8 )

The trivial risks presented by fracking are by far outweighed by the greater good that is the energy that the wells provide.
The risks are made trivial (as others have pointed out) by regulation and the development of this mature technology's processes. In the UK for 50 years and elsewhere for much longer.

[LDN]

katz said:

Much of the attitude towards the protestors is the same as that which was directed at the women of Greenham Common, the miners striking for their rights,, the protests against the poll tax,, the residents of Grenfell Tower. the Occupy protest: they don't' know enough, they are getting in the way of ordinary people, how dare they, why do they not use a democratic route?.
Perhaps it is because big industries like Oil, Tobacco, Energy, Motors, Food etc. have lied to us for so long, that, even when they might be right, people do not believe them, and that these industries have central government in their pocket, so all of a sudden something the local council does not want is forced upon them. IF you feel this way then physical disruptive protest might be your only choice.
People protest in this way because they believe that what they do is good for society, and because they care about the greater good. IF more folks cared about what is good for all of us, rather than what is good for their pocket, perhaps protest such as this might not have to happen.

Good post. There's many a PH'er who would argue against anything that knocks the 'norm'. In this case, Cuadrilla were beaten at every turn; at great expense. For central government to simply ignore the democratic process, many on here are quick to hold up. The decisions against Cuadrilla were based upon not only local residents concerns; but testimony and scientific evidence from all over the world. This isn't about a few protestors holding up a road; its bigger than that... but when the average civilian is beaten, despite having won at every turn through the proper channels; there'll be those few left, fighting like this; the only way that's left in reality.

[katz]

jet_noise said:

Is it not for the greater good that abundant cheap energy is provided?
It is on such that the essentials (and indeed luxuries ) of life are based - medical care, food, the V8.
It is the lack of same that causes ill health and poverty - (so called) third world countries. (Except possibly for the V8 )

The trivial risks presented by fracking are by far outweighed by the greater good that is the energy that the wells provide.
The risks are made trivial (as others have pointed out) by regulation and the development of this mature technology's processes. In the UK for 50 years and elsewhere for much longer.

And if you government came out and said that something that you, and you community authorities thought was vital to the greater good, was in fact subject to the desires of a big corporation, and that that corporation had been working with the government to overturn your democratically made decision, and that you had no right to appeal, if you really cared, would you not be out there protesting?

[Mr2Mike]

katz said:

Much of the attitude towards the protestors is the same as that which was directed at the women of Greenham Common, the miners striking for their rights,, the protests against the poll tax,, the residents of Grenfell Tower. the Occupy protest: they don't' know enough, they are getting in the way of ordinary people, how dare they, why do they not use a democratic route?.
Perhaps it is because big industries like Oil, Tobacco, Energy, Motors, Food etc. have lied to us for so long, that, even when they might be right, people do not believe them, and that these industries have central government in their pocket, so all of a sudden something the local council does not want is forced upon them. IF you feel this way then physical disruptive protest might be your only choice.

Just how dysfunctional does a protester's brain need to be to believe that pissing off the general public will garner sympathy for their cause?

You are correct that this is similar to the career scumbags that caused riots at Grenfell, because they enjoyed a bit of mindless violence rather than being passionate about a cause. It's only similar to Greenham in that people with an aversion to personal hygiene are protesting, but the Greenham protest did not stop large numbers of the general public moving freely. OTOH it's nothing like the poll tax protests or miner's strikes.

[Spanglepants]

Am I missing something here? Drag them out the f'ing way. What is the problem.
Would I be allowed to just lie down in the local high street and be left to it until i felt like moving ?

sparkythecat said:

The local Police put this on Facebook earlier today

• A583 UPDATE* – The A583 remains closed in both directions between Whitehills and Fox Lane Ends. This morning we had four pairs of campaigners locked on – two outside World of Water and two just up from Plumpton Lane. Our removal team has cleared two of those pairs, allowing us to get some people through to local businesses, only for two more pairs to take their place and lock on further down the road towards Kirkham. The eight campaigners are now again on both sides of the carriageway - one of the pairs at the Whitehills end is claiming to be superglued together and the other is saying they want to be cut out rather than self-release. We’ve also attempted to speak to the two new pairs at the Kirkham end at the road but they are also refusing to move voluntarily and have said they don’t care if blue light or other essential services can’t get through.

So far today, we have managed to facilitate a small number of essential journeys for local people but we want to be clear that it is absolutely not safe to allow through traffic and the A583 must remain closed until the campaigners decide to self-release or we clear them. This is having a huge impact on both local businesses and residents but we trust people understand that the carriageway must remain shut as our first priority remains the safety of everyone concerned. We’ll let you know as soon as there are any further updates. Thanks for your continuing patience.

[anonymous-user]

katz said:

jet_noise said:

Is it not for the greater good that abundant cheap energy is provided?
It is on such that the essentials (and indeed luxuries ) of life are based - medical care, food, the V8.
It is the lack of same that causes ill health and poverty - (so called) third world countries. (Except possibly for the V8 )

The trivial risks presented by fracking are by far outweighed by the greater good that is the energy that the wells provide.
The risks are made trivial (as others have pointed out) by regulation and the development of this mature technology's processes. In the UK for 50 years and elsewhere for much longer.

And if you government came out and said that something that you, and you community authorities thought was vital to the greater good, was in fact subject to the desires of a big corporation, and that that corporation had been working with the government to overturn your democratically made decision, and that you had no right to appeal, if you really cared, would you not be out there protesting?

Yes, we may be protesting but not in such a puerile, disruptive way at great expense to the taxpayer and local residents.

If they've got reasonable grounds for their argument let them do some crowdfunding and pay for their protest to be heard legitimately and at their cost.

[Oakey]

LDN said:

Good post. There's many a PH'er who would argue against anything that knocks the 'norm'. In this case, Cuadrilla were beaten at every turn; at great expense. For central government to simply ignore the democratic process, many on here are quick to hold up. The decisions against Cuadrilla were based upon not only local residents concerns; but testimony and scientific evidence from all over the world. This isn't about a few protestors holding up a road; its bigger than that... but when the average civilian is beaten, despite having won at every turn through the proper channels; there'll be those few left, fighting like this; the only way that's left in reality.

This is BS, LCC's own planners recommended that one of the two sites should be approved and this was ignored with 9 out of 14 councillors voting in favour of rejecting the application.

[julianc]

Mr GrimNasty said:

People like you should be prosecuted for promulgating fake scare stories.

.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Oakey said:

LDN said:

Good post. There's many a PH'er who would argue against anything that knocks the 'norm'. In this case, Cuadrilla were beaten at every turn; at great expense. For central government to simply ignore the democratic process, many on here are quick to hold up. The decisions against Cuadrilla were based upon not only local residents concerns; but testimony and scientific evidence from all over the world. This isn't about a few protestors holding up a road; its bigger than that... but when the average civilian is beaten, despite having won at every turn through the proper channels; there'll be those few left, fighting like this; the only way that's left in reality.

This is BS, LCC's own planners recommended that one of the two sites should be approved and this was ignored with 9 out of 14 councillors voting in favour of rejecting the application.

Any they always will vote in favour of rejecting such controversial/sensitive applications. It was always on the cards that Cuadrilla were going to appeal the decision and that the appeal would be called-in by the SoS, with any final decision resting with them. In such instances the politicised decision of a local councillor is often going to go towards a refusal, as it benefits them to do so.

There is nothing undemocratic about appealing a refusal of planning permission, and call-in by the SoS is a far from uncommon practice, especially when it centres on a particularly sensitive proposal.

[Biker 1]

katz said:

IF you feel this way then physical disruptive protest might be your only choice.

So why is it that plane stupid/anti-fracking/anti-removal of 'travellers'/etc etc always appear to be the same demographic: unshaven, unkempt, unwashed, unemployed, often sporting dreadlocks & multiple body piercings...... Apologies for the stereotype, but most of them don't appear to be concerned local people, legally protesting things that they fear will have a direct negative impact on their lives.

I can't recall many instances where 'physical disruptive protest' has been appropriate in this country. Rent-a-mob has little sympathy.

[Pistom]

The pilot drill looks set to start up next week.

Give it a few weeks after start up and hopefully the protesters will disappear.

My prediction though is that in a few weeks time, leaves will start falling off the trees which will clearly be down to the fracking activity.

[Johnnytheboy]

Biker 1 said:

So why is it that plane stupid/anti-fracking/anti-removal of 'travellers'/etc etc always appear to be the same demographic: unshaven, unkempt, unwashed, unemployed, often sporting dreadlocks & multiple body piercings...... Apologies for the stereotype, but most of them don't appear to be concerned local people, legally protesting things that they fear will have a direct negative impact on their lives.

I can't recall many instances where 'physical disruptive protest' has been appropriate in this country. Rent-a-mob has little sympathy.

...and I don't think they have one clue about how protesters conforming to this stereotype, and indulging in 'direct action' can alienate potential supporters from a cause.

[KaraK]

This is on my commute and it's causing no end of havoc! I dread to think how much it's cost me in lost time, money for extra fuel when diverting around the closures, money lost on evening plans I've had to miss because of the delays etc etc. Oh and they have the front to put up signs saying that the traffic delays aren't the fault of the "protectors"

[Ian Lancs]

KaraK said:

Oh and they have the front to put up signs saying that the traffic delays aren't the fault of the "protectors"

Ah - you don't understand. If Cuadrilla weren't there, the protestors wouldn't be therefore it isn't the "protectors" fault

I work in office with a few people who do go and protest at PNR; when I've mentioned the above to them that's their stock answer.

[Cyberprog]

Ian Lancs said:

Ah - you don't understand. If Cuadrilla weren't there, the protestors wouldn't be therefore it isn't the "protectors" fault

I work in office with a few people who do go and protest at PNR; when I've mentioned the above to them that's their stock answer.

I trust you told them that they were a f*cking idiot...

[cjb44]

Scotty2 said:

Julianc - Pollute in what way?

How would you feel if someone was stopping your legal and lawful business? Just because you don't like it is not a legitimate reason.

I'll say again. Hydraulic fracturing has been carried out in this country since the 50's. No pollution. No babies dying. Some of it even beside a SSSi.

The protesters do not understand the process and would be against ANYTHING. Just that sad sponging Crusty type and misled OAPs.

I do not condone what is happening with the protestors, but I would ask what is your knowledge of the Fracking process?
I worked in the onshore offshore oil industry for over twenty years, and I can tell you that some of the chemicals that are used in the process are not pleasant and I am not keen that they go any where near a water table.

[LDN]

cjb44 said:

Scotty2 said:

Julianc - Pollute in what way?

How would you feel if someone was stopping your legal and lawful business? Just because you don't like it is not a legitimate reason.

I'll say again. Hydraulic fracturing has been carried out in this country since the 50's. No pollution. No babies dying. Some of it even beside a SSSi.

The protesters do not understand the process and would be against ANYTHING. Just that sad sponging Crusty type and misled OAPs.

I do not condone what is happening with the protestors, but I would ask what is your knowledge of the Fracking process?
I worked in the onshore offshore oil industry for over twenty years, and I can tell you that some of the chemicals that are used in the process are not pleasant and I am not keen that they go any where near a water table.

Fracking cannot be done anywhere near population centres in many countries. We don't have the space and so those living close to it are simply told to stuff it.

I have family very close and they are not out in the roads... But they understand why there are those that are. There are those here on ph that would toe the line; no matter what, it seems.... good little citizens / cogs in the machine one might say

In any case; the battle was fought with vigour and whilst it was won at each stage; ultimately; I think everyone knew they'd be told to go jump, despite the victories.

People's properties have been damaged from the tests - and money has been paid out as a result. This isn't black and white.

[14-7]

LDN said:

Fracking cannot be done anywhere near population centres in many countries. We don't have the space and so those living close to it are simply told to stuff it.

I have family very close and they are not out in the roads... But they understand why there are those that are. There are those here on ph that would toe the line; no matter what, it seems.... good little citizens / cogs in the machine one might say

In any case; the battle was fought with vigour and whilst it was won at each stage; ultimately; I think everyone knew they'd be told to go jump, despite the victories.

People's properties have been damaged from the tests - and money has been paid out as a result. This isn't black and white.

Damaged in what way? I can't say I've heard anyone say their property has been damaged and I know a few farmers in the area (in fact someone right by the drilling site).

[Oakey]

And what about the earthquake we had before any of this fracking started, the biggest one for a long time? Feb 2008 if you need to look it up.

[LDN]

14-7 said:

Damaged in what way? I can't say I've heard anyone say their property has been damaged and I know a few farmers in the area (in fact someone right by the drilling site).

I know of two people's property that have been damaged. One I know of in detail; simply; an outbuilding developed cracks and showed signs of movement.

As well; it's worth remembering that one of the ways cuadrilla was beaten was by testimony and evidence from here and abroad. Simply put; everyone has been told to shove it... and many fighting this in the right way seemed to know all along that it was likely futile: as big government would step in and simply swipe everything that had come before to the side.