Fracking Protestors
Discussion
cjb44 said:
I do not condone what is happening with the protestors, but I would ask what is your knowledge of the Fracking process?
I worked in the onshore offshore oil industry for over twenty years, and I can tell you that some of the chemicals that are used in the process are not pleasant and I am not keen that they go any where near a water table.
Really ?? Again...I worked in the onshore offshore oil industry for over twenty years, and I can tell you that some of the chemicals that are used in the process are not pleasant and I am not keen that they go any where near a water table.
Let me explain the Fylde coast where this fracking is going to happen.
In rough terms if you draw a line along the M6. Everything to the west of that is flat, and not far off sea level. Everything to the east is up a big feck off hill. All our water is collected from rain in them there hills, and stored in reservoirs up there. We don't drink any water that falls on or is pumped out from land to the west of the motorway. We get flooding down here when it rains heavily in Yorkshire !
In all likelihood within the next 1000 years the sea will do its thing, reclaim the whole of the Fylde coast and everyone will die.
Ceeejay said:
Really ?? Again...
Let me explain the Fylde coast where this fracking is going to happen.
In rough terms if you draw a line along the M6. Everything to the west of that is flat, and not far off sea level. Everything to the east is up a big feck off hill. All our water is collected from rain in them there hills, and stored in reservoirs up there. We don't drink any water that falls on or is pumped out from land to the west of the motorway. We get flooding down here when it rains heavily in Yorkshire !
In all likelihood within the next 1000 years the sea will do its thing, reclaim the whole of the Fylde coast and everyone will die.
I understand that, but I am sure the Fylde coast will just be the thin end of the wedge; some of us have to use ground water!Let me explain the Fylde coast where this fracking is going to happen.
In rough terms if you draw a line along the M6. Everything to the west of that is flat, and not far off sea level. Everything to the east is up a big feck off hill. All our water is collected from rain in them there hills, and stored in reservoirs up there. We don't drink any water that falls on or is pumped out from land to the west of the motorway. We get flooding down here when it rains heavily in Yorkshire !
In all likelihood within the next 1000 years the sea will do its thing, reclaim the whole of the Fylde coast and everyone will die.
cjb44 said:
Ceeejay said:
Really ?? Again...
Let me explain the Fylde coast where this fracking is going to happen.
In rough terms if you draw a line along the M6. Everything to the west of that is flat, and not far off sea level. Everything to the east is up a big feck off hill. All our water is collected from rain in them there hills, and stored in reservoirs up there. We don't drink any water that falls on or is pumped out from land to the west of the motorway. We get flooding down here when it rains heavily in Yorkshire !
In all likelihood within the next 1000 years the sea will do its thing, reclaim the whole of the Fylde coast and everyone will die.
I understand that, but I am sure the Fylde coast will just be the thin end of the wedge; some of us have to use ground water!Let me explain the Fylde coast where this fracking is going to happen.
In rough terms if you draw a line along the M6. Everything to the west of that is flat, and not far off sea level. Everything to the east is up a big feck off hill. All our water is collected from rain in them there hills, and stored in reservoirs up there. We don't drink any water that falls on or is pumped out from land to the west of the motorway. We get flooding down here when it rains heavily in Yorkshire !
In all likelihood within the next 1000 years the sea will do its thing, reclaim the whole of the Fylde coast and everyone will die.
Over a year in jail and a 12 month suspended sentence for three Fracking protestors:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/2...
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/2...
glazbagun said:
Over a year in jail and a 12 month suspended sentence for three Fracking protestors:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/2...
At least two of them have "punch me" faces.https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/2...
Johnnytheboy said:
glazbagun said:
Over a year in jail and a 12 month suspended sentence for three Fracking protestors:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/2...
At least two of them have "punch me" faces.https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/2...
KaraK said:
Speaking as someone who got caught up in the disruption these idiots caused I'm rather glad to see they are getting dealt with.
I didn’t get caught up but understand the need to extract fossil fuels. Also that there is an environmental cost to this. I'm OK with all that. Does anyone feel that the public should have a right to protest if they feel so strongly about a matter one local democratic options are exhausted?
Democracy isn't very effective in instances where the Government makes a decision which effects a local community, nor should it be otherwise who decides where unpopular activities or processes go?
At what point should members of the public give up a fight that effects not just them but others too?
What alternative action should these 3 have taken?
Pistom said:
I didn’t get caught up but understand the need to extract fossil fuels. Also that there is an environmental cost to this. I'm OK with all that.
Does anyone feel that the public should have a right to protest if they feel so strongly about a matter one local democratic options are exhausted?
Democracy isn't very effective in instances where the Government makes a decision which effects a local community, nor should it be otherwise who decides where unpopular activities or processes go?
At what point should members of the public give up a fight that effects not just them but others too?
What alternative action should these 3 have taken?
I live locally to this and don't support fracking or the fact that the government overturned local councils.Does anyone feel that the public should have a right to protest if they feel so strongly about a matter one local democratic options are exhausted?
Democracy isn't very effective in instances where the Government makes a decision which effects a local community, nor should it be otherwise who decides where unpopular activities or processes go?
At what point should members of the public give up a fight that effects not just them but others too?
What alternative action should these 3 have taken?
The thing is they haven't been stopped protesting they have been allowed to do it and I'm sorry they haven't done it peacefully no matter what they claim.
A lot of them are vile individuals especially when they have been known to be going to local schools where some police officers have kids and put banners up with the officers face on it labelling them as a paedophile, targeting people who work their (police, private security and drivers of trucks making deliveries) at their homes etc. Not to mention blocking a main arterial route used by tens of thousands of motorists a day causing absolute mayhem by laying in the road but don't worry they'll blame the police for shutting the road not the idiots laid in the middle of a carriageway which was a 50 zone but is now a 20 in order to 'protect them'.
There may be one or two locals who support what they do but the vast majority are sick to death of them.
Peaceful protest I'm all for but stopping ordinary people getting to work and going about their daily lives is beyond out of order. More of them should be prosecuted.
Edited by 14-7 on Sunday 30th September 10:14
Pistom said:
What alternative action should these 3 have taken?
Easy. If they don't like the decisions of our country's government, they need to move themselves out of its framework. (Maybe they could go to Eritrea and claim asylum on grounds of environmental persecution?)Bottom line: we have a political system that applies to everyone. No one ever said you should like all of the decisions, but in the round it's a better way than everyone just doing what they want regardless of consequences to others.
No sympathy here (and I live a mile or so from another fracking site before anyone cries nimby)
Ian Geary said:
........
Bottom line: we have a political system that applies to everyone. No one ever said you should like all of the decisions, but in the round it's a better way than everyone just doing what they want regardless of consequences to others.
.....
That's a very good point and answers many who argue that a development which effects them shouldn't go ahead. Bottom line: we have a political system that applies to everyone. No one ever said you should like all of the decisions, but in the round it's a better way than everyone just doing what they want regardless of consequences to others.
.....
The problem comes when in reality, all political systems are subject to corruption and persuasion by those with influence.
Do we just have to accept that that's how it is and allow the life and family we've built up to be walked all over?
I'm not saying that in this situation anything other than the greater good has been addressed but what if a large powerful wealthy individual or organisation did have influence over Government and the Government rubber stamped developments for profit and gain?
14-7 said:
I live locally to this and don't support fracking or the fact that the government overturned local councils.
The thing is they haven't been stopped protesting they have been allowed to do it and I'm sorry they haven't done it peacefully no matter what they claim.
A lot of them are vile individuals especially when they have been known to be going to local schools where some police officers have kids and put banners up with the officers face on it labelling them as a paedophile, targeting people who work their (police, private security and drivers of trucks making deliveries) at their homes etc. Not to mention blocking a main arterial route used by tens of thousands of motorists a day causing absolute mayhem by laying in the road but don't worry they'll blame the police for shutting the road not the idiots laid in the middle of a carriageway which was a 50 zone but is now a 20 in order to 'protect them'.
There may be one or two locals who support what they do but the vast majority are sick to death of them.
Peaceful protest I'm all for but stopping ordinary people getting to work and going about their daily lives is beyond out of order. More of them should be prosecuted.
I know many of the locals and community surrounding the Fylde site and I’m afraid your wrong. The locals, as a majority, support a ban on fracking and support the protestors.The thing is they haven't been stopped protesting they have been allowed to do it and I'm sorry they haven't done it peacefully no matter what they claim.
A lot of them are vile individuals especially when they have been known to be going to local schools where some police officers have kids and put banners up with the officers face on it labelling them as a paedophile, targeting people who work their (police, private security and drivers of trucks making deliveries) at their homes etc. Not to mention blocking a main arterial route used by tens of thousands of motorists a day causing absolute mayhem by laying in the road but don't worry they'll blame the police for shutting the road not the idiots laid in the middle of a carriageway which was a 50 zone but is now a 20 in order to 'protect them'.
There may be one or two locals who support what they do but the vast majority are sick to death of them.
Peaceful protest I'm all for but stopping ordinary people getting to work and going about their daily lives is beyond out of order. More of them should be prosecuted.
Edited by 14-7 on Sunday 30th September 10:14
I think the sticking point here is that; massive amounts of money and effort was spent to win over the decision in their favour. They mounted a very very organised and effective case; bringing in professional witnesses and experts from America; Cuadrilla, I know, were stunned by how organised the opposition was. They had through that their legal team and nigh on unlimited cash would win the day. The protestors were so effective, they won. Only for the government to simply say; ‘sorry, you’ve wasted your time; we are overturning it.’
This isn’t just some tree hugger crazies. There are many many well respected, well-off, organised people behind the protests and efforts to stop. The case was heard, evidence looked at in great detail; and they won their case.
It’s amazing how many people here would fold having won at every level, to be told by the government, tough luck. I guess that makes you a certain type of person; with all due respect.
Of course; there are those who will push things too far having felt wronged. But too far in one persons eyes is not far enough in another’s. Everyone would do well to understand that; and when I say understand; I don’t mean, agree with, necessarily.
LDN said:
I think the sticking point here is that; massive amounts of money and effort was spent to win over the decision in their favour. They mounted a very very organised and effective case; bringing in professional witnesses and experts from America; Cuadrilla, I know, were stunned by how organised the opposition was. They had through that their legal team and nigh on unlimited cash would win the day. The protestors were so effective, they won. Only for the government to simply say; ‘sorry, you’ve wasted your time; we are overturning it.’
.
Yes - very good point but this is how our system operates. The majority elect a government and the government - no matter how strong the argument against them, has the last say. That can work in favour for some as well as against..
The current proposal to allow fracking test drills under permitted development has probably come about exactly because of the cost organisations like Cuadrilla have had to spend to fight protests. These companies don't have unlimited cash - if they can't turn a profit from it - they won't do it.
LDN said:
I know many of the locals and community surrounding the Fylde site and I’m afraid your wrong. The locals, as a majority, support a ban on fracking and support the protestors.
Too bad. Sometimes national priorities outweigh local politics. As for the jailed protestors - if you can't do the time don't do the crime.
As one of the more than 80% of householders who use gas central heating I welcome fracking as a means to increase long term energy security. Any gas extraction site will have some risks needing managed. It's a bit hypocritical to depend on gas but expect others countries to do the dirty work getting it out the ground.i
I cycle past the fracking site to work regularly and have seen how the anti-fracking protests and mobilisation of people has unfolded.
I remember well last year, when these guys did their lorry surfing. The situation around the time was that protesters were able to mobilise significant numbers, hundreds on a regular basis. Even with heavy police numbers, they were losing control and with protestor lock-ons, vehicle obstruction and bodies on the ground, the A583 arterial route was closed or under contraflow at some point most days. It was a battle ground for territorial control, namely the apron area at the entrance to the frack site, control that, you control access and therefore it cant function.
From observation, I'd say the police at the time were struggling to maintain control and was often ugly. It was against scenes like this that the lorry-surfers did their thing. This wasn't unusual, protestors had regularly climbed on lorry's before, but from memory only stayed up maybe 24 hours. Also we previously had lock-ons that had closed the road for hours. These offences generally attracted a fine and an injunction not to attend the PNR site.
Against that therefore, these guys when climbing up probably accepted that they would be going to the magistrate's court for a slap, and not even consider custodial sentences. Against that, why then did these guys get custodial? Two reasons I think, firstly the sheer length of time they created an obstruction, 80 hours rather than the typical few hours. Secondly, as part of trying to regain control & civil order, an example has been made.
Its interesting to note that 12 months on through injunctions and heavy policing, protesting, though active is a lot more civilised and far fewer ugly scenes than of 2017. The protestors also seen unable to maintain the sheer numbers they could mobilise last year.
These are not comments on the rights & wrongs, just observations from a random cyclist going about his daily business.
I remember well last year, when these guys did their lorry surfing. The situation around the time was that protesters were able to mobilise significant numbers, hundreds on a regular basis. Even with heavy police numbers, they were losing control and with protestor lock-ons, vehicle obstruction and bodies on the ground, the A583 arterial route was closed or under contraflow at some point most days. It was a battle ground for territorial control, namely the apron area at the entrance to the frack site, control that, you control access and therefore it cant function.
From observation, I'd say the police at the time were struggling to maintain control and was often ugly. It was against scenes like this that the lorry-surfers did their thing. This wasn't unusual, protestors had regularly climbed on lorry's before, but from memory only stayed up maybe 24 hours. Also we previously had lock-ons that had closed the road for hours. These offences generally attracted a fine and an injunction not to attend the PNR site.
Against that therefore, these guys when climbing up probably accepted that they would be going to the magistrate's court for a slap, and not even consider custodial sentences. Against that, why then did these guys get custodial? Two reasons I think, firstly the sheer length of time they created an obstruction, 80 hours rather than the typical few hours. Secondly, as part of trying to regain control & civil order, an example has been made.
Its interesting to note that 12 months on through injunctions and heavy policing, protesting, though active is a lot more civilised and far fewer ugly scenes than of 2017. The protestors also seen unable to maintain the sheer numbers they could mobilise last year.
These are not comments on the rights & wrongs, just observations from a random cyclist going about his daily business.
LDN said:
I think the sticking point here is that; massive amounts of money and effort was spent to win over the decision in their favour. They mounted a very very organised and effective case; bringing in professional witnesses and experts from America; Cuadrilla, I know, were stunned by how organised the opposition was. They had through that their legal team and nigh on unlimited cash would win the day. The protestors were so effective, they won. Only for the government to simply say; ‘sorry, you’ve wasted your time; we are overturning it.’
They didn't win. It was officer recommendation for approval and the local members did what all local members do for any such decision, when they know the decision will be made by the SoS or an Inspector at appeal, they made it a political points scoring exercise. Vote against, knowing in all likelihood that the SoS would grant permission. And the representations/submissions made by Cuadrilla were entirely typical of what would be submitted for any development that is EIA or subject to particular sensitivity.Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Monday 1st October 10:02
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