Buying a car to re-sell...insurance issues?
Discussion
Shuvi McTupya said:
I would like to hear back from Josho though as I don't want to spend loads of money of a new key if that is not the issue! Luckily I am in no real hurry. It's not like it has to be sold this week, but of course that would have been nice
Its another issue i found when trading - you rarely get a quick easy "flip". On the plus side, theres usually a home for a cheap low miles auto. Theres always people about who need an auto but havent big money to spend.
I remember some years ago selling a cheapie low miles auto and the woman who bought it (for her father) was so pleased to have got it. I thought she was going to hug me at one point.
The phone wont ring off the hook but you will get a customer for it if its well presented.
daemon said:
Shuvi McTupya said:
280E said:
daemon said:
.... if you are selling a car for profit you have legal obligations with respect to
=> Road Traffic Act - the car needs to be TAXED, insured, roadworthy and registered to your name (either trader or otherwise)
I can't recall many cars I've bought where the trader was the RK=> Road Traffic Act - the car needs to be TAXED, insured, roadworthy and registered to your name (either trader or otherwise)
daemon said:
You need to make sure you are meeting these obligations. Its why traders have trade insurance and trade plates.
To be clear here, are you suggesting it is the trader who must meet all of the above? I beg to differ.Since the rules were changed in 2014 it is the new keeper who is responsible for VED.
And where in any legislation does it say that a trader is responsible for insurance on a vehicle he has just sold?
Roadworthy, yes. So if it won't pass an MOT test at the point of sale the trader has a problem.
An existing current certificate won't cut it as a fault could have developed since the date of issue.
Red Devil said:
To be clear here, are you suggesting it is the trader who must meet all of the above? I beg to differ.
Since the rules were changed in 2014 it is the new keeper who is responsible for VED.
And where in any legislation does it say that a trader is responsible for insurance on a vehicle he has just sold?
Roadworthy, yes. So if it won't pass an MOT test at the point of sale the trader has a problem.
An existing current certificate won't cut it as a fault could have developed since the date of issue.
In the context of the original post, where the O/P wants to move the car about, if its on a public road it needs to be taxed, insured, roadworthy and mot'd. A trader will use his trade insurance and trade plates to cover the requirement for taxing and insuring it.Since the rules were changed in 2014 it is the new keeper who is responsible for VED.
And where in any legislation does it say that a trader is responsible for insurance on a vehicle he has just sold?
Roadworthy, yes. So if it won't pass an MOT test at the point of sale the trader has a problem.
An existing current certificate won't cut it as a fault could have developed since the date of issue.
For the context of this thread, you cant just declare "i'm a private trader" and thus not meet your obligations under the RTA if you're moving the vehicle / providing test drives.
Shuvi McTupya said:
I actually did put an advert on gumtree and got a couple of offers but turned them down, and then discovered this fault and removed the advert.
I was asked if I would take 750 on the phone. And got an email that just said "600". No words at all!
FYI the number and no words thing is Gumtree's "make an offer" feature being sI was asked if I would take 750 on the phone. And got an email that just said "600". No words at all!
te - not actually just an idiot buyer Josho said:
What is the immobiliser light doing when it's not starting?
It flashes quite quickly when the problem occurs, then I think it slowly flashes for quite a while afterwards.And, the display that shows what gear you are in is fully illuminated if you know what I mean, it is like a figure 8, when it needs to be an N for neutral.
Edited by Shuvi McTupya on Wednesday 9th August 09:02
so if OP sells me a car as a trader and the starting issue appeared, I want it fixed, would OP fix it?
As a trader, I thought that the OP would need to fix the issue or refund me and have another owner on the car history?
Im not following this idea that I can just trade cars without any responsibility for them and not call myself a trader or follow any of the rules just cause I dont want to and class it all as personal selling without the implied warranty.
As a trader, I thought that the OP would need to fix the issue or refund me and have another owner on the car history?
Im not following this idea that I can just trade cars without any responsibility for them and not call myself a trader or follow any of the rules just cause I dont want to and class it all as personal selling without the implied warranty.
I guess none of us on here have ever sold a car and made a profit? Technically all the OP is doing is selling his car. The fact that he bought it to sell on is neither here nor there.
I once bought a Ford Orion for £150 off a mate who just wanted to get rid of it and I sold it for £300. Does this make me a bad person who should be banged up for offering no comeback and potentially 'stiffing' someone?
I once bought a Ford Orion for £150 off a mate who just wanted to get rid of it and I sold it for £300. Does this make me a bad person who should be banged up for offering no comeback and potentially 'stiffing' someone?
Du1point8 said:
so if OP sells me a car as a trader and the starting issue appeared, I want it fixed, would OP fix it?
As a trader, I thought that the OP would need to fix the issue or refund me and have another owner on the car history?
Im not following this idea that I can just trade cars without any responsibility for them and not call myself a trader or follow any of the rules just cause I dont want to and class it all as personal selling without the implied warranty.
Wholly correct. Though there are some on here who think thats wholly legitimate. As a trader, I thought that the OP would need to fix the issue or refund me and have another owner on the car history?
Im not following this idea that I can just trade cars without any responsibility for them and not call myself a trader or follow any of the rules just cause I dont want to and class it all as personal selling without the implied warranty.
Shuvi McTupya said:
I think we have already been over that.
No I dont follow... tell me how.I can't loan shark as apparently that's not allowed without being approved by the FCA, etc...
All I want to do is make some money off someone and charge them 100% and they have no come back on me as I dont think of it as official so whats the issue?
So why do traders need to follow a lot of rules and offer protection to people buying, if they can just say... f
k it, it doesnt apply to me and I will just say sold as seen and you can do one if it goes wrong.I think you will find we have covered this , just read the whole thread.
And as far as I am aware, if you offer to lend someone some money on the provision that they pay you back a bit more, that is not illegal..
if you lend someone a tenner on the provision that he pays your tenner back next week and gets you a pint, the interest Calculated in APR would be in the thousands of percent. Would that make you a professional money lender?
And as far as I am aware, if you offer to lend someone some money on the provision that they pay you back a bit more, that is not illegal..
if you lend someone a tenner on the provision that he pays your tenner back next week and gets you a pint, the interest Calculated in APR would be in the thousands of percent. Would that make you a professional money lender?
Speed Badger said:
I guess none of us on here have ever sold a car and made a profit? Technically all the OP is doing is selling his car. The fact that he bought it to sell on is neither here nor there.
I once bought a Ford Orion for £150 off a mate who just wanted to get rid of it and I sold it for £300. Does this make me a bad person who should be banged up for offering no comeback and potentially 'stiffing' someone?
Yes that is abhorrent behaviour and you should be strung up, Apparently.I once bought a Ford Orion for £150 off a mate who just wanted to get rid of it and I sold it for £300. Does this make me a bad person who should be banged up for offering no comeback and potentially 'stiffing' someone?
It's fine to do it with houses though.
Lord Marylebone said:
I bought an Aston Martin DB9 recently for £36,000 and sold it for a shade under £41,000.
It was a fun car to own for a few weeks and I made just under £5000 for doing effectively nothing apart from making sure I produced a really good advert and photographs when I sold it.
I'll be sellng a classic Porsche shortly for around £12,000 more than I paid for it.
I don't intend to make a profit... it just keeps happening. If I see something for sale at a bargain price I'll snap it up if I can.
I say if you can buy nice cars at the right price, enjoy them and make money when you sell them, go for it.
I don't see what the problem is. If you make it absolutely clear to the prospective buyer that it is a private sale, there is no warranty, the car is sold as seen, and that they must satisfy themselves that the car is suitable for them, then that's fine.
We are all consenting adults.
When you bought the Aston, were you planning to keep it, or sell it on for a profit?It was a fun car to own for a few weeks and I made just under £5000 for doing effectively nothing apart from making sure I produced a really good advert and photographs when I sold it.
I'll be sellng a classic Porsche shortly for around £12,000 more than I paid for it.
I don't intend to make a profit... it just keeps happening. If I see something for sale at a bargain price I'll snap it up if I can.
I say if you can buy nice cars at the right price, enjoy them and make money when you sell them, go for it.
I don't see what the problem is. If you make it absolutely clear to the prospective buyer that it is a private sale, there is no warranty, the car is sold as seen, and that they must satisfy themselves that the car is suitable for them, then that's fine.
We are all consenting adults.
It's fine if you bought it for your own use, but if it was bought because it can would sell for more then that's trading.
It is a grey area where someone luckily buys a personal car, and ends up making money, so that's why it's ultimately decided by the courts.
daemon said:
Say your dad went out and bought a car with his hard earned to get him to work and back or to potter about in it and it turned out to be a complete shed of a thing needing a fortune spent on it to get it up to the standard you'd reasonably expect. He'd bought it "in good faith" from what he thought was a private seller. You then googled the buyers phone number and it turned out the seller had had a string of cars for sale recently, but when you ring him to confront him he says "sorry pal, private sale. I just do this as a side line".
You'd be happy about that would you? Because i suspect not.
What if you googled the number and it turned out it was a private seller? Would you be better off?You'd be happy about that would you? Because i suspect not.
speedking31 said:
daemon said:
Say your dad went out and bought a car with his hard earned to get him to work and back or to potter about in it and it turned out to be a complete shed of a thing needing a fortune spent on it to get it up to the standard you'd reasonably expect. He'd bought it "in good faith" from what he thought was a private seller. You then googled the buyers phone number and it turned out the seller had had a string of cars for sale recently, but when you ring him to confront him he says "sorry pal, private sale. I just do this as a side line".
You'd be happy about that would you? Because i suspect not.
What if you googled the number and it turned out it was a private seller? Would you be better off?You'd be happy about that would you? Because i suspect not.
If you bought a car off a private seller, then thats not an issue?
If you bought a car off someone who is masquerading as a private seller to avoid their responsibilities as a trader, thats a different issue.
If you're bought to resell for profit, man up and declare thats what you're doing. Or why would you not if "theres no harm"?
Speed Badger said:
I once bought a Ford Orion for £150 off a mate who just wanted to get rid of it and I sold it for £300. Does this make me a bad person who should be banged up for offering no comeback and potentially 'stiffing' someone?
So wheres the line drawn? Should you not have to declare you're a trader if you do it once a year? Once a month? Once a week?"Sorry pal i dont have to stand over this one as i've only sold two this year so i dont have to?"
If you've bought a car to resell for profit, man up and declare yourself trade in the advert.
SantaBarbara said:
House sales are quite different though.
How so?If I buy a house at auction to turn around in a month for a quick profit everyone would pat me on the back , I wouldn't have to tell the prospective buyer that I was a professional house builder and give them a warrantee . They would be responsible to have the house inspected if they so choose.
I don't really see why everyone gets up in arms when you are talking about a road legal sub £1k car rather than a £500k building.
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