Cancelled flight...

[Heres Johnny]

Burwood said:

I'm happy to put my hand up. There is a contract-silly me. You're wrong pal. here's the thing. You are telling it like you know but then quote half the story from a website. I've claimed this very thing 3 times.

You've claimed compo a week before a flight after opting to take a full refund ?

[djc206]

randlemarcus said:

Zigster said:

I know what you mean, but I'm struggling to see how it falls under "extraordinary circumstances" which couldn't have been forseen. From a bit of googling, it seems a remarkably common excuse from Easyjet.

That's because they have identified a get out clause

Might be interesting if Kapitanelangzaam is kicking around to see whether ATC declaring a slowdown is more common than it used to be though.

In his absence I may be able to offer some insight as I'm an ATCO at London. In short the answer is both no and yes depending on how far back you're looking. ATC delays in the UK are quite uncommon but within the context of the last decade (aviation took a massive hit after the recession) they have increased, still trivial compared to pre recession figures though. In the UK we're nudging 8000 flights per day at the moment which is a big increase on last year and up ~1000/day in the last 3-4 years, with increased traffic comes increased disruption when landing rates are reduced or sector flow control is applied.

Airports like Gatwick are now operating at capacity so a weather regulation for example has a much larger impact that it would have before, similar impact to Heathrow which as we all know doesn't cope with even the slightest hiccup. If significant thunderstorms are forecast/present in the southern UK or northern France/Belgium/Netherlands expect there to be restrictions that impact travel in the UK.

[randlemarcus]

djc206 said:

In his absence I may be able to offer some insight as I'm an ATCO at London. In short the answer is both no and yes depending on how far back you're looking. ATC delays in the UK are quite uncommon but within the context of the last decade (aviation took a massive hit after the recession) they have increased, still trivial compared to pre recession figures though. In the UK we're nudging 8000 flights per day at the moment which is a big increase on last year and up ~1000/day in the last 3-4 years, with increased traffic comes increased disruption when landing rates are reduced or sector flow control is applied.

Airports like Gatwick are now operating at capacity so a weather regulation for example has a much larger impact that it would have before, similar impact to Heathrow which as we all know doesn't cope with even the slightest hiccup. If significant thunderstorms are forecast/present in the southern UK or northern France/Belgium/Netherlands expect there to be restrictions that impact travel in the UK.

Good answer, damn your eyes. It would have been so much easier to point at the Swanwick car park full of Ferraris, and nod knowingly.

[Sheepshanks]

Heres Johnny said:

You book a flight. Let's say a week before you travel they cancel the flight. You decide to take a refund. Some would have you believe they have to pay you compensation too. There's a level of detail and timing that's relevant here and not been disclosed.

That's a pretty rare scenario - it's certainly not what the OP is about.

[CYMR0]

No, all the rights are cumulative. Ryanair sets out the guidelines quite clearly.

https://www.ryanair.com/content/dam/ryanair/help-c...

You are entitled to compensation UNLESS:

a. you are notified at least TWO weeks in advance; or

b. your revised routing gets you there within two hours after, or leaving no more than one hour before your original departure.

That is IN ADDITION to your rerouting and refund rights.

In this case, the OP is entitled to two heads of compensation:

a. because he was not rerouted " re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to your final destination at the earliest opportunity"; and

b. because even if he had been rerouted correctly, he would have got there more than 2h late.

[CYMR0]

Heres Johnny said:

Burwood said:

I'm happy to put my hand up. There is a contract-silly me. You're wrong pal. here's the thing. You are telling it like you know but then quote half the story from a website. I've claimed this very thing 3 times.

You've claimed compo a week before a flight after opting to take a full refund ?

Any cancellation within two weeks of departure would give rise to compensation AND a refund, yes.

[djc206]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

We produce delay almost every day (1000s and 1000s of minutes) , mainly due to weather and such like, but also increasingly due to lack of staff.

It's only going to get worse, and in the short term there's no way to make it better.

We are busier than we have ever been (setting multiple records this year), with fewer and fewer staff.

Without going wildly off topic, it's rapidly heading in the direction of a major clusterfk, but as usual the political heads don't listen to those (screaming) below them until the st well and truly hits the fan

All true but even if we produced a few thousand minutes of delay divide that by the number of flights and the delay becomes pretty trivial. A few years ago NATS were averaging just 2 seconds per flight, 2016 it was 4.3s and last financial year just 10.9s.

We too have been caught with our pants down by the rate of increase of traffic so staffing delays do happen. The last year has seen a 7.6% increase in traffic, I believe they were forecasting about half that. Our lot have only just started ramping up recruitment and pushing decent numbers of trainees into the operation, it will take a good few years for the situation to stabilise though.

On a positive note we as ATCO's are in a very strong position. We are too few in number and needed to train up the next generation. That's a good place to be when negotiating with our bosses.

[djc206]

randlemarcus said:

Good answer, damn your eyes. It would have been so much easier to point at the Swanwick car park full of Ferraris, and nod knowingly.

Ferraris? I think there's only one and its about 30 years old. It's just a sea of euroboxes really with the occasional gem.

[djc206]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Same here, but by the sounds of it, here it's a bit more acute.... To the point that next year already we are looking at making (staffing) delays that might make it into the DM!! Haha.

I haven't been at work for a while to look at delay figures, but I think we might be approaching 60s per flight this year, which doesn't sound much but in comparison to even just a few years ago is absurdly huge.

If we recruit at max. Capacity and all trainees pass (currently about 40% do) , we still can't replace the retirement outflow.

Leaves us at ATCOs in a strong position, but honestly we'd rather have enough colleagues and be able to take our leave days.

Oh dear! It's more acute at approach units here. Stansted haven't had a great couple of years. We've traditionally relied on other European agencies regulating before us, the French being French have no qualms about regulating so we're often protected by them. It would appear you guys might do us a similar favour next year!

Indeed I don't want to be working my nuts off all the time. I don't have sprogs so don't take leave in July/August and I'm knackered, this summer has been a bd and it can only get worse in the short term. Our retirement bubble is also about to go pop big time as a huge number of ATCO's have withdrawn from our DB scheme meaning they have no incentive to stay past 55, previously most have gone at 57/58.

Do you guys have fixed bandbox and split times and still publish which arse is to be in which seat?

[chml]

So as a quick update on this, EJ have declined my application on the basis that "We’ve reviewed your claim and we can confirm that your flight from Belfast Intl to Manchester was cancelled due to weather.

Compensation is only payable when the delay/cancellation is within our control, a technical fault with an aircraft would be an example.

When delays/cancellations are not within our control they’re classified under EU law as ‘extraordinary circumstances’. An example of this would be air traffic control strikes or bad weather.

As your flight cancellation was caused by weather, this is an extraordinary circumstance, so unfortunately you are not eligible for compensation under article 7 of EU261/2004.".

However I have a screenshot from the app showing the status of the flight as being cancelled due to a "ground handling issue at Manchester meaning flight crew have reached their maximum working hours."

Is it best to now go through ADR through CAA or just to give EJ notice that I will issue a money claim online?

Thanks

[Burwood]

chml said:

So as a quick update on this, EJ have declined my application on the basis that "We’ve reviewed your claim and we can confirm that your flight from Belfast Intl to Manchester was cancelled due to weather.

Compensation is only payable when the delay/cancellation is within our control, a technical fault with an aircraft would be an example.

When delays/cancellations are not within our control they’re classified under EU law as ‘extraordinary circumstances’. An example of this would be air traffic control strikes or bad weather.

As your flight cancellation was caused by weather, this is an extraordinary circumstance, so unfortunately you are not eligible for compensation under article 7 of EU261/2004.".

However I have a screenshot from the app showing the status of the flight as being cancelled due to a "ground handling issue at Manchester meaning flight crew have reached their maximum working hours."

Is it best to now go through ADR through CAA or just to give EJ notice that I will issue a money claim online?

Thanks

Absolutely go CAA route. It's free and they will quickly resolve it. All airlines lie.. the CAA will know the facts. Airlines must report such facts daily to them.

[chml]

Thanks

[speedking31]

But before you do that, just read my posts of 21st August.

[chml]

speedking31 said:

But before you do that, just read my posts of 21st August.

EJ didn't mention ADR, they just said it was out of their control and they look forward to welcoming me on board again

[speedking31]

OK. Let us know what the CAA response is.

[chml]

Just a quick update, I submitted a CEDR case but have also received a payment of £356 today from EasyJet. I've emailed them for clarification as this is less than the replacement flights with Flybe.

[Zigster]

You got money out of easyjet? Well done! I'm still waiting for my refund, despite chasing them several times.

[Burwood]

Zigster said:

You got money out of easyjet? Well done! I'm still waiting for my refund, despite chasing them several times.

The CAA will do all the leg work once you have tried and been knocked back by the Airline.