Crash - Insurance Unaware Of Engine Swap - Consequences
Discussion
Olivera said:
cbmotorsport said:
A friends idiot son lost it on a bend and crashed into a house while driving drunk. His insurance is null and void as a result. They have paid out the third party's damage and are currently pursuing him for their outlay. It happens.
Eh? "Is My insurance policy is invalid if I drink and drive - Insurance companies do remain obliged under the Road Traffic Act to meet the costs of any claim by a third party for injury or damage."But insurers can't null and void for drink driving. They can for an undeclared engine swap though.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
No, your insurance isn't invalid, it's a made up story. Admiral group of companies reduce cover to TPO if you are over the limit when you crash, but even then they are on for the tp costs which they cannot recover from the policyholder.
But insurers can't null and void for drink driving. They can for an undeclared engine swap though.
But insurers can't null and void for drink driving. They can for an undeclared engine swap though.
It's a condition of the policy, if they breach it Admiral will pursue for recovery of costs.
KevinCamaroSS said:
C70R said:
Your deliberate obtuseness is not helping the conversation. To clarify something, can I please have your opinion on two scenarios, and you can tell me which is more dangerous (from the perspective of braking efficiency/power):
Scenario 1: E46 318i with four occupants (4x 75kg) and 30kg of luggage. Total weight: 1690kg (1360kg + 330kg)
Scenario 2: E46 318i with E46 330i engine: Total weight: 1505kg (stated weight of 330i)
If 318i brakes are specified to deal with Scenario 1 within their tolerances, they are fine to deal with Scenario 2.
Now who is being obtuse?Scenario 1: E46 318i with four occupants (4x 75kg) and 30kg of luggage. Total weight: 1690kg (1360kg + 330kg)
Scenario 2: E46 318i with E46 330i engine: Total weight: 1505kg (stated weight of 330i)
If 318i brakes are specified to deal with Scenario 1 within their tolerances, they are fine to deal with Scenario 2.
Scenario 2 should be E46 318i with E46 engine with four occupants and 30kg luggage, total weight 1835kg (1505kg + 330kg)
In my book 1835 is a fair bit more than 1690.
What might be relevant is where the additional weight is located. If it's all up front with the bigger engine that may have some effect on the vehicle's handling characteristics. If so, whether that had any relevance to the crash is an open question.
JimSuperSix said:
Nanook said:
JimSuperSix said:
What I called absolute rubbish was your statement that bigger engine = more weight = brakes have to work harder as justification that not upgrading the brakes makes the car unsafe in any way.
I found this on a Miata forum - "The weight gain from a stock 1.6 liter to the LS1 is about 90 pounds" , which is about 18kg if the various online converters are correct, so about 1/5th the weight of a passenger.
Unless you fit an absolutely huge engine, the extra weight is going to be irrelevant to road driving.
Ok, first things first, that was not my statement. The statement that bigger engine = more weight = brakes having to work harder is literally a fact. You can't just say "rubbish" and make it so I found this on a Miata forum - "The weight gain from a stock 1.6 liter to the LS1 is about 90 pounds" , which is about 18kg if the various online converters are correct, so about 1/5th the weight of a passenger.
Unless you fit an absolutely huge engine, the extra weight is going to be irrelevant to road driving.
Secondly, 90 pounds is not 18kg
There are 2.2 pounds in one kilogram, I'll leave the maths to you there.
And finally, if you're so sure you're correct, why do manufacturers bother? What's the point? Why don't they save money, complexity and effort, and just fit little brakes to everything?
Think about it. Really think about it.
And I can say its rubbish in respect of this thread - it might be true technically, but its rubbish in terms of making the OP's friends car any more or less safe, which was the smug implication of the original post i responded to.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 7th September 14:50
In all honesty, if I were you, I'd steer clear of making technical proposals if you need to resort to an on line converter to simply convert lbs to Kg.
Red Devil said:
Why should it? The valid point he is making is that an engine swap could have less effect on the car's overall weight than adding three passenger and luggage. The latter will have been taken into consideration at the design stage when specifying the vehicle's brakes. On that basis the argument that they would somehow become deficient after the engine swap is simply untenable.
What might be relevant is where the additional weight is located. If it's all up front with the bigger engine that may have some effect on the vehicle's handling characteristics. If so, whether that had any relevance to the crash is an open question.
A fully-laden base spec car can probably stop from a high speed good and hard. The question is how many times.What might be relevant is where the additional weight is located. If it's all up front with the bigger engine that may have some effect on the vehicle's handling characteristics. If so, whether that had any relevance to the crash is an open question.
Yes, if you drove an engine-swapped car in the same manner as the original one, it'll probably hold up ok. But the issue is, even without extra weight, the much more powerful car can come steaming into braking points at a higher speed, and get to the next one in less time, too. The loaded-up standard car isn't going to accelerate that fast, the brakes will have more time to cool before they're needed next, and when they are, the car's probably travelling slower.
It's not just about weight, it's about the combination of weight, performance, and how you choose to drive it. The engine swapped car is going to have the knob turned up on the last two points, regardless of the first.
Plus that's assuming we're even comparing two E46s. If this is an E30 318i with an engine swap, those have 10" diameter, 1/2" thick solid discs up front. You'll properly cook them in short order driving at the speed 200+bhp would allow, even without any extra weight.
I don't think this brake business is directly relevant to the situation at hand, though. However, I do agree that the kind of person who'd swap in a bigger engine without declaring it probably is the kind of person who'd not upgrade other supporting components, and be likely to drive like a bit of a bell.
Nanook said:
Ok, first things first, that was not my statement. The statement that bigger engine = more weight = brakes having to work harder is literally a fact. You can't just say "rubbish" and make it so
Secondly, 90 pounds is not 18kg :.
Jim doesn't seem to be the sharpest, please don't confuse him with numbers or facts.Secondly, 90 pounds is not 18kg :.
KevinCamaroSS said:
C70R said:
Your deliberate obtuseness is not helping the conversation. To clarify something, can I please have your opinion on two scenarios, and you can tell me which is more dangerous (from the perspective of braking efficiency/power):
Scenario 1: E46 318i with four occupants (4x 75kg) and 30kg of luggage. Total weight: 1690kg (1360kg + 330kg)
Scenario 2: E46 318i with E46 330i engine: Total weight: 1505kg (stated weight of 330i)
If 318i brakes are specified to deal with Scenario 1 within their tolerances, they are fine to deal with Scenario 2.
Now who is being obtuse?Scenario 1: E46 318i with four occupants (4x 75kg) and 30kg of luggage. Total weight: 1690kg (1360kg + 330kg)
Scenario 2: E46 318i with E46 330i engine: Total weight: 1505kg (stated weight of 330i)
If 318i brakes are specified to deal with Scenario 1 within their tolerances, they are fine to deal with Scenario 2.
Scenario 2 should be E46 318i with E46 engine with four occupants and 30kg luggage, total weight 1835kg (1505kg + 330kg)
In my book 1835 is a fair bit more than 1690.
InitialDave said:
I don't think this brake business is directly relevant to the situation at hand, though. However, I do agree that the kind of person who'd swap in a bigger engine without declaring it probably is the kind of person who'd not upgrade other supporting components, and be likely to drive like a bit of a bell.
Agree with all of this. I was just trying to get to the point of the utterly fatuous, blanket statement.
ZOLLAR said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
No, your insurance isn't invalid, it's a made up story. Admiral group of companies reduce cover to TPO if you are over the limit when you crash, but even then they are on for the tp costs which they cannot recover from the policyholder.
But insurers can't null and void for drink driving. They can for an undeclared engine swap though.
But insurers can't null and void for drink driving. They can for an undeclared engine swap though.
It's a condition of the policy, if they breach it Admiral will pursue for recovery of costs.
Sea Demon said:
The biggest thread I've ever started
In response to the many brakes post, the larger brakes from the donor 330 were fitted & he had good tyres fitted.
aha so it is a bmw, the plot thickens and all the crap complete unrelated to the legalities of the situation can continue In response to the many brakes post, the larger brakes from the donor 330 were fitted & he had good tyres fitted.
did he use an oem quality socket to tighten his nuts? If not his house will be repossessed and he'll be deported!
Sea Demon said:
The biggest thread I've ever started
In response to the many brakes post, the larger brakes from the donor 330 were fitted & he had good tyres fitted.
You could have said that at the very start - and it would have saved a couple of pages of inane discussion on physics, weights and sizes of brakes.....In response to the many brakes post, the larger brakes from the donor 330 were fitted & he had good tyres fitted.
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