Consumer Law Question

[jmorgan]

Sheepshanks said:

SMar said:

They are talking rubbish, I've never had a problem getting a satisfactory resolution to a problem like this when I used the Consumer Rights Act.

Take a look at Which

Did you actually read that? If so, please explain which part of the CRA forces Tesco to refund the OP or replace the printer.

Which was why I decided to give up chasing my cooker issues. I had to prove it was faulty outside a certain time. Outside the 12 months in my case.

As may be the case here, it grates like hell to have to give up but the path was bitter n twisted vs get on with life.

[SMar]

jmorgan said:

Sheepshanks said:

SMar said:

They are talking rubbish, I've never had a problem getting a satisfactory resolution to a problem like this when I used the Consumer Rights Act.

Take a look at Which

Did you actually read that? If so, please explain which part of the CRA forces Tesco to refund the OP or replace the printer.

Which was why I decided to give up chasing my cooker issues. I had to prove it was faulty outside a certain time. Outside the 12 months in my case.

As may be the case here, it grates like hell to have to give up but the path was bitter n twisted vs get on with life.

In my case it was a Sony Playstation 3 from Argos, when I spoke to the first member of staff who new nothing about Consumer Laws I was given the out of Warranty rubbish. I then asked to speak to a Manager who agreed that I should reasonably expect more than 3 years use from a Sony Playstation as it was a quality product, and they gave me 50% of my money back as I had 3 years use and the Consumer laws say my rights last for up to 6 years.

With John Lewis, they gave me 100% of the value of a TV after 4 years as again they said I should expect more than 4 years use from, I would have been happy with less but I'm not going to turn that down.

In each case the people I spoke to who understood the Consumer laws thought my request was reasonable, so I didn't have to prove any faults.

The Act itself also talks about "durability" which is the ability for the product to perform its function over a period of time under normal use. I don't think any right minded person would think a printer lasting just over 12 Months was reasonable quality or fit for purpose.

Edited by SMar on Wednesday 13th September 10:56

[Sheepshanks]

SMar said:

In my case it was a Sony Playstation 3 from Argos, when I spoke to the first member of staff who new nothing about Consumer Laws I was given the out of Warranty rubbish. I then asked to speak to a Manager who agreed that I should reasonably expect more than 3 years use from a Sony Playstation as it was a quality product, and they gave me 50% of my money back as I had 3 years use and the Consumer laws say my rights last for up to 6 years.

With John Lewis, they gave me 100% of the value of a TV after 4 years as again they said I should expect more than 4 years use from, I would have been happy with less but I'm not going to turn that down.

In each case the people I spoke to who understood the Consumer laws thought my request was reasonable, so I didn't have to prove any faults.

I don't think any right minded person would think a printer lasting just over 12 Months was reasonable quality or fit for purpose.

Sellers will often give goodwill - there's nothing in SoGA (which would have applies in the cases you mentioned) or CRA which forces suppliers to repair or refund.

I had Sony repair a DVD player at 3yrs old and Dell repair a laptop of same age but OTOH JohnLewis completely stone-walled me on a hardly used but 16mth old vacuum cleaner. On your TV, JohnLewis have long offered 5yrs warranty on TVs, so they did what they had to. That's been our family's experience of JohnLewis - they do what they have to, nothing more, nothing less. I've no idea why people rave about them.

There's a massive misunderstanding of the law. It does not say goods have to last 6 years without being repaired. It's entirely within the scope of the Act for an item to fail at 15 months old and need a repair, which you pay for. Where the law may help you is if an expensive item isn't repairable and so is scrap - then it fails the durability test. So it's up to the OP to have the printer repaired but of course it probably isn't worthwhile.

[SMar]

Sheepshanks said:

Sellers will often give goodwill - there's nothing in SoGA (which would have applies in the cases you mentioned) or CRA which forces suppliers to repair or refund.

I had Sony repair a DVD player at 3yrs old and Dell repair a laptop of same age but OTOH JohnLewis completely stone-walled me on a hardly used but 16mth old vacuum cleaner. On your TV, JohnLewis have long offered 5yrs warranty on TVs, so they did what they had to. That's been our family's experience of JohnLewis - they do what they have to, nothing more, nothing less. I've no idea why people rave about them.

There's a massive misunderstanding of the law. It does not say goods have to last 6 years without being repaired. It's entirely within the scope of the Act for an item to fail at 15 months old and need a repair, which you pay for. Where the law may help you is if an expensive item isn't repairable and so is scrap - then it fails the durability test. So it's up to the OP to have the printer repaired but of course it probably isn't worthwhile.

This was 15 years ago and it did NOT have a 5 year warranty. I always buy from john Lewis, on very few times I have needed to return Items they have been first class and exceeded my own high expectations. I once had a camcorder repaired under warranty and received £50 in vouchers to say sorry for the problems.

[Sheepshanks]

SMar said:

This was 15 years ago and it did NOT have a 5 year warranty. I always buy from john Lewis, on very few times I have needed to return Items they have been first class and exceeded my own high expectations. I once had a camcorder repaired under warranty and received £50 in vouchers to say sorry for the problems.

Good for you, but in half a generation things may have changed.

As we've seen from this thread, and my own multiple personal experiences, retailers are VERY well aware of their legal obligations. OK, the part time shop assistant that you initially speak to may not be, and their manager may just want a quiet life so gives in, but once you get into the proper customer service channels they know the law inside out.

I've had far more success - 100% I think - going direct to manufacturers. Off the top of my head, TomTom (after having the law quoted to me by Halfords) Dell, Sony I mentioned earlier. Electrolux collected and fixed the vac that JohnLewis wouldn't entertain.


JohnLewis is handy for us as we can collect from Waitrose so we do still use them quite a lot but they've never done anything 'above and beyond'. Just recently a Panasonic microwave was DOA and its replacement lasted a week. Again replaced. That failed after a couple of months but I had to take it to a JohnLewis, not Waitrose, and they had no facility to provide a loan machine - just had to wait a couple of weeks while they sent it to be repaired, then had to go and collect it.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Wednesday 13th September 12:19

[SMar]

Here's what Citizens Advice have to say on the matter. A bit more explicit here on the subject "If the goods do not last a reasonable length of time you may be entitled to some money back." Again does anybody here think 12 months is reasonable?

[Sheepshanks]

SMar said:

Here's what Citizens Advice have to say on the matter. A bit more explicit here on the subject "If the goods do not last a reasonable length of time you may be entitled to some money back." Again does anybody here think 12 months is reasonable?

Again, it doesn't say "if the goods do not last a reasonable length of time without being repaired"! And then it say you MAY be entitled to some money back.


It's all far too vague. What do you do is they still say 'get stuffed'? It's not like you can call 999 and report a breach of the Act. Your only option is to sue them. Good luck with that. Especially when, according to the law, they haven't done anything wrong, they're just being a bit mean to you.

[SMar]

Sheepshanks said:

Good for you, but in half a generation things may have changed.

As we've seen from this thread, and my own multiple personal experiences, retailers are VERY well aware of their legal obligations. OK, the part time shop assistant that you initially speak to may not be, and their manager may just want a quiet life so gives in, but once you get into the proper customer service channels they know the law inside out.

I've had far more success - 100% I think - going direct to manufacturers. Off the top of my head, TomTom (after having the law quoted to me by Halfords) Dell, Sony I mentioned earlier. Electrolux collected and fixed the vac that JohnLewis wouldn't entertain.

Not in my experience, I had a gas hob delivered in April for a new kitchen from John Lewis, it sat in the garage for 6 weeks before it was fitted. The fitter opened the package and found some damage, or so he told me, could have been him but I wasn't there to see. Rang John Lewis and first member of staff wanted me to contact manufacturer as the HQ was only 2 miles from my house (strange logic). I thought ok maybe that will be quicker. After 10 mins I thought bugger that, rang back spoke to a different member of staff and they just offered me a new one in 2 days time without any prompting.

In my experience most members of staff do NOT know the rights of the customer, so just go armed with a copy of the Act and they soon cave in. Your statutory rights under these consumer laws are much stronger than the manufacturers warranty in most circumstances. So don't be afraid to use them.

[Sheepshanks]

SMar said:

Not in my experience, I had a gas hob delivered in April for a new kitchen from John Lewis, it sat in the garage for 6 weeks before it was fitted. The fitter opened the package and found some damage, or so he told me, could have been him but I wasn't there to see. Rang John Lewis and first member of staff wanted me to contact manufacturer as the HQ was only 2 miles from my house (strange logic). I thought ok maybe that will be quicker. After 10 mins I thought bugger that, rang back spoke to a different member of staff and they just offered me a new one in 2 days time without any prompting.

I wouldn't have expected anything else. It's not reasonable to expect you to unpack and inspect everything.

They replaced smashed dishes (quite a lot of them) in daughters wedding list without quibble and there was a considerable time gap. But the vacuum cleaner at 16mths, after just a few months of use - no way. And I really did try. I think I got caught in a situation where once someone had said no, no one else wanted to contradict.

SMar said:

In my experience most members of staff do NOT know the rights of the customer,

That's what I said.

[jmorgan]

^^^^
Problem is if you have to prove the issue due to no good will from the seller, don't matter what your rights are, you have to first invest time and money. In my case, a £500 gas cooker, a substantial sum, I would have to get an engineer to look at it and prove that it was faulty from manufacture. The shop owner refused to entertain anything even if I proved it. Maybe I should have called his bluff but I would have to have got the cooker tested then take legal action. Maybe the part was made of chocolate (well known British make that I shall never buy from again)

I knew I was in for a hard time when I found out that I should have had a two year warranty but the paper work was "mis placed".

Since then I have gone to other suppliers, I still try to give my money to small locals but electronics now are from the big boys.

I think the trick is to know when to step away.

Cheap printer? Me personally up the tip and go buy a laser.

[Short Grain]

Apologies if I missed it, but have you contacted the manufacturer of the printer? Or posted on their Twitter / Facebook pages? Can work wonders when they are then seen to sort out the problem and you the sing their praises on said sites!