Someone got caught speeding, might have been me.
Discussion
Right then, just got of the phone to a nice lady at the Bristol Speed Enforcement Unit. I explained the situation and that I'd sent a letter, what it stated but I'd not heard anything.
I was rather surprised by her reply, she said, after confirming my identity, that she had just got the letter. She read it as I waited in the phone and very quickly said that she'd go straight back to my company and if indeed there was no evidence the ticket would go in their name.
Very straightforward and unless some evidence 'appears' it doesn't look like my company has a leg to stand on. Lucky I've kept all email correspondence with my manager where he clearly stated that there was no evidence and they are not 100% sure who it was.
I was rather surprised by her reply, she said, after confirming my identity, that she had just got the letter. She read it as I waited in the phone and very quickly said that she'd go straight back to my company and if indeed there was no evidence the ticket would go in their name.
Very straightforward and unless some evidence 'appears' it doesn't look like my company has a leg to stand on. Lucky I've kept all email correspondence with my manager where he clearly stated that there was no evidence and they are not 100% sure who it was.
Right then folks, bit of an update.
I'd heard nothing about this speeding of once since I spoke with the people at the Speeding Enforcement place. That is, until today, du, du, duuuuuuu!
Got pulled in the same manager's office after my shift today, started all nice by saying he hadn't seen me in a long time etc. then I shut the office door and immediately he said "this speeding fine"
Anyway, as it turns out he has managed to glean further evidence that it was me, despite the fact he categorically stated, in an email, that he wasn't 100% sure. I did post the email a few pages back. The letter was returned once again with my name attached and it was up to me if I wanted to risk going to court. I've also made this a much bigger issue than it needed to be as higher managers are now aware and if it is found to be me, by way of me admitting it or in court, he has no choice but to take the appropriate action as someone is my position shouldn't be getting speeding tickets.
To be honest it was rather odd, didn't seem to be too threatening on the surface but reading in between the lines the 'appropriate action' line did get me thinking and overall I did get the impression that I should take.this and shut up about it, I'll still be disciplined though.
I'd heard nothing about this speeding of once since I spoke with the people at the Speeding Enforcement place. That is, until today, du, du, duuuuuuu!
Got pulled in the same manager's office after my shift today, started all nice by saying he hadn't seen me in a long time etc. then I shut the office door and immediately he said "this speeding fine"
Anyway, as it turns out he has managed to glean further evidence that it was me, despite the fact he categorically stated, in an email, that he wasn't 100% sure. I did post the email a few pages back. The letter was returned once again with my name attached and it was up to me if I wanted to risk going to court. I've also made this a much bigger issue than it needed to be as higher managers are now aware and if it is found to be me, by way of me admitting it or in court, he has no choice but to take the appropriate action as someone is my position shouldn't be getting speeding tickets.
To be honest it was rather odd, didn't seem to be too threatening on the surface but reading in between the lines the 'appropriate action' line did get me thinking and overall I did get the impression that I should take.this and shut up about it, I'll still be disciplined though.
Hi folks,
Along with a few other long standing members of staff I have thought the the management have wanted to get rid of us 'old school' drivers as we don't fit in with the new depot's way of working.
As for legal expenses insurance, I don't think I do. I've always kept myself relatively clean cut and never seen the need, didn't ever think I'd end up I a situation like this.
I have noted down as much as I can remember, whilst it's fresh in my mind and I'll be seeing the HR chap on Monday. I fear the HR team are very much just management lackies though but I should make it official at least. I will also, via email, ask the manager in question to share the 'new evidence' with me. As I've said all along, if they can prove it was me, I'd stick my hand up to it, I've no problem with that.
Along with a few other long standing members of staff I have thought the the management have wanted to get rid of us 'old school' drivers as we don't fit in with the new depot's way of working.
As for legal expenses insurance, I don't think I do. I've always kept myself relatively clean cut and never seen the need, didn't ever think I'd end up I a situation like this.
I have noted down as much as I can remember, whilst it's fresh in my mind and I'll be seeing the HR chap on Monday. I fear the HR team are very much just management lackies though but I should make it official at least. I will also, via email, ask the manager in question to share the 'new evidence' with me. As I've said all along, if they can prove it was me, I'd stick my hand up to it, I've no problem with that.
Thanks for the reply and advise guys 
I emailed the manager in question yesterday, very polite and non confrontational etc., I simply asked for the new evidence to be made available to me. I also gently reminded him that he's already, via email, told me that he's said he could never be 100% and that it could have been a 'handful of drivers'.
I've decided to stand my ground, if any evidence proves, without a doubt, that it was me then fair cop, I'll take whatever comes my way.
I'll update with any reply.
Wish me luck, although I feel my time with this company will be coming to an end.
I emailed the manager in question yesterday, very polite and non confrontational etc., I simply asked for the new evidence to be made available to me. I also gently reminded him that he's already, via email, told me that he's said he could never be 100% and that it could have been a 'handful of drivers'.
I've decided to stand my ground, if any evidence proves, without a doubt, that it was me then fair cop, I'll take whatever comes my way.
I'll update with any reply.
Wish me luck, although I feel my time with this company will be coming to an end.
If I can I would stay with the company, as daft as that sounds. I enjoy the job and I'm paid well for what I do.
Correct A.Lex, I responded saying I didn't know who was driving and my company have responded again saying it was me, with new evidence. I've yet to receive anything further.
Correct A.Lex, I responded saying I didn't know who was driving and my company have responded again saying it was me, with new evidence. I've yet to receive anything further.
That's how it was when the depot first opened, things are OK now and paperwork/systems are in place to ensure vehicles are signed out after their initial run of the day. Back when this offence happened that wasn't the case which is why there is no proof, just circumstantial evidence.
The reason I don't want to work their any more is slightly more complicated than just this issue. I hate the company just for the fact they've taken a job I dearly loved and turned it in to something I really dislike. Both in terms of the job itself but also the atmosphere, contract and work/life balance.
As for knowing if I was driving, it was around 2 months between the offence and the accusation. I drive different vehicles every day and do different routes every day, I challenge anyone to remember what exactly they were doing 2 months ago, besides, I've always said if they show me conclusive evidence that it was me then fair enough.
As for knowing if I was driving, it was around 2 months between the offence and the accusation. I drive different vehicles every day and do different routes every day, I challenge anyone to remember what exactly they were doing 2 months ago, besides, I've always said if they show me conclusive evidence that it was me then fair enough.
When the office first received the letter and accused me they no proof that it was me and my manager said it could have been a handful of drivers and he couldn't be 100% sure. The second time after I denied it, he has said they have 100% proof but has not showed me, yet.
I agree, it is a relatively minor offence, but let me ask you, would you take it if you weren't sure you were the driver and I told you it could have been a handful of other people?
I agree, it is a relatively minor offence, but let me ask you, would you take it if you weren't sure you were the driver and I told you it could have been a handful of other people?
I got a reply from the he manager this morning:
In view of the fact we could be facing each other in court I'm not prepared to give you all of the facts I've been able to gather at this stage. Suffice to say I am satisfied I have sufficient evidence to not be nervous about it. I will tell you it took hours and hours of work though which I couldn't really spare with everything else going on, not only for me but for 'name removed' as well who has had to present the evidence formally.
Make of that what you will.
In view of the fact we could be facing each other in court I'm not prepared to give you all of the facts I've been able to gather at this stage. Suffice to say I am satisfied I have sufficient evidence to not be nervous about it. I will tell you it took hours and hours of work though which I couldn't really spare with everything else going on, not only for me but for 'name removed' as well who has had to present the evidence formally.
Make of that what you will.
Marcellus said:
Nick, I would refer to HR and the Ops Director immediately, your line manager is being unreasonable in with holding this detail.
Keep it a factual chronology of events with copies of everything.
I would position it in terms of; "if it is me than I have no issue with accepting the ticket, however at this stage I genuinely don't know/remember if it is"
The manager in question IS the Ops Manager Keep it a factual chronology of events with copies of everything.
I would position it in terms of; "if it is me than I have no issue with accepting the ticket, however at this stage I genuinely don't know/remember if it is"
Gavia said:
NickM450 said:
I got a reply from the he manager this morning:
In view of the fact we could be facing each other in court I'm not prepared to give you all of the facts I've been able to gather at this stage. Suffice to say I am satisfied I have sufficient evidence to not be nervous about it. I will tell you it took hours and hours of work though which I couldn't really spare with everything else going on, not only for me but for 'name removed' as well who has had to present the evidence formally.
Make of that what you will.
What does the bit I’ve highlighted mean?In view of the fact we could be facing each other in court I'm not prepared to give you all of the facts I've been able to gather at this stage. Suffice to say I am satisfied I have sufficient evidence to not be nervous about it. I will tell you it took hours and hours of work though which I couldn't really spare with everything else going on, not only for me but for 'name removed' as well who has had to present the evidence formally.
Make of that what you will.
Who has had to present what to whom? Why the use of the word formally? Is this a disciplinary matter as well?
I'm going to have a chat with the HR fella today when I return to the depot and try and get the area manager, who is based at our depot in in the meeting.
I'm going to go through what's happened and as best I can paraphrase the letter posted by NGee, thank you
Tried to get a meeting with the area manager and HR chap today, Area Manager wasn't available but had a quick 'of the record' chat with the HR guy.
He was aware of the situation but hadn't looked in to it. I voiced my concern and used all those buzz words that HR dislike, bullying, harrased, duty of care etc. I made it very clear that I would stand up and take my punishment if they can show me evidence and that's the stance I've had since the beginning, after all I've just been trying to do the right thing and taking a ticket on somebody else's behalf is illegal.
He didn't like the managers threats and aggressive email, his face sort of contorted when I mentioned what the manager had written in his emails regarding a handful of possible drivers and the bit about court then his mouth positively touched the floor when I said that the manager had refused to show me the evidence so I can reasonably defend myself or put this issue to bed. Neither was he aware of speeding being a disciplinary offence, but he did mention that I'd be the first person this year, since the new depot and contracts have been in place. I don't think that's true as in my first meeting with the original manager he told me that there were two speeding tickets in the same week and the other driver had accepted his.
He has promised to look in to it and see what evidence he can share, whatever that means.
I really don't want to go down the route of involving solicitors etc. but I fear this issue has got somewhat beyond me and I cinceede I nay have to. How does one get in touch with the PH'ers who are experts in this field, their names mentioned a few posts ago.
He was aware of the situation but hadn't looked in to it. I voiced my concern and used all those buzz words that HR dislike, bullying, harrased, duty of care etc. I made it very clear that I would stand up and take my punishment if they can show me evidence and that's the stance I've had since the beginning, after all I've just been trying to do the right thing and taking a ticket on somebody else's behalf is illegal.
He didn't like the managers threats and aggressive email, his face sort of contorted when I mentioned what the manager had written in his emails regarding a handful of possible drivers and the bit about court then his mouth positively touched the floor when I said that the manager had refused to show me the evidence so I can reasonably defend myself or put this issue to bed. Neither was he aware of speeding being a disciplinary offence, but he did mention that I'd be the first person this year, since the new depot and contracts have been in place. I don't think that's true as in my first meeting with the original manager he told me that there were two speeding tickets in the same week and the other driver had accepted his.
He has promised to look in to it and see what evidence he can share, whatever that means.
I really don't want to go down the route of involving solicitors etc. but I fear this issue has got somewhat beyond me and I cinceede I nay have to. How does one get in touch with the PH'ers who are experts in this field, their names mentioned a few posts ago.
Some great responses there, thank you. I am already working on a timeline with everything I know/believe included.
To answer Glavia, I have 3 points that I received in January 2015 and I last attended a course in 2013 I believe. As for the speed, I may well have that wrong, could have been 66 in a 50, I'd have to take a look at the letter I have at home.
All through this situation, I've always maintained that of they can provide sufficient evidence to prove it was me then I would take the fine etc. bit to tgisnpoint all they've done is say that it COULD be me AS WELL AS several others. What evidence they have now I don't know, although the HR chap did mention yesterday that 'they've narrowed it down'.
All I've done is what I thought was right, in the role I have now, it has been drummed in to us that we are being watched, evaluated and have to stay whiter than white, so I've tried to do just that.
To answer Glavia, I have 3 points that I received in January 2015 and I last attended a course in 2013 I believe. As for the speed, I may well have that wrong, could have been 66 in a 50, I'd have to take a look at the letter I have at home.
All through this situation, I've always maintained that of they can provide sufficient evidence to prove it was me then I would take the fine etc. bit to tgisnpoint all they've done is say that it COULD be me AS WELL AS several others. What evidence they have now I don't know, although the HR chap did mention yesterday that 'they've narrowed it down'.
All I've done is what I thought was right, in the role I have now, it has been drummed in to us that we are being watched, evaluated and have to stay whiter than white, so I've tried to do just that.
Again, interesting replies folks and I thank you.
I would hiwever ike to clear a few things up. These first two points are for Glavia, I respect that you e got your thoughts on this issue and I like your side of the argument. Firstly, I've got the letter in front of me and it does say 68 in a 60. Secondly, I know we don't know each other but I can assure you, if I knew, 100% it was me then I would have stood up and taken the fine and possible points or whatever. I knew full well what I would be getting myself in to should I deny it and here I am, in the very situation.
The vans, at the time had no sign out sheet and no vehicle check sheet. Both of which they have now and they are filled in as far as I'm aware. Back at the time of the offence they were allocated routes first thing in the morning. Upon their return after the route they were free for anyone to take but that wouldn't have been for a full route, just a redelivery, to fix a mistake, help someone else out etc.
This offence happened later on in the day and would have been one of those extra deliveries, not part of the main route of the day. Another one of the reasons that I was fingered is that I had, at some point, visited a delivery point that lies in that direction. The paperwork from that delivery does not have my name or signature on it either, just the original driver's signature from earlier that day. They are not even sure the van in question actually visited that delivery, then drove home that way past the camera.
I would hiwever ike to clear a few things up. These first two points are for Glavia, I respect that you e got your thoughts on this issue and I like your side of the argument. Firstly, I've got the letter in front of me and it does say 68 in a 60. Secondly, I know we don't know each other but I can assure you, if I knew, 100% it was me then I would have stood up and taken the fine and possible points or whatever. I knew full well what I would be getting myself in to should I deny it and here I am, in the very situation.
The vans, at the time had no sign out sheet and no vehicle check sheet. Both of which they have now and they are filled in as far as I'm aware. Back at the time of the offence they were allocated routes first thing in the morning. Upon their return after the route they were free for anyone to take but that wouldn't have been for a full route, just a redelivery, to fix a mistake, help someone else out etc.
This offence happened later on in the day and would have been one of those extra deliveries, not part of the main route of the day. Another one of the reasons that I was fingered is that I had, at some point, visited a delivery point that lies in that direction. The paperwork from that delivery does not have my name or signature on it either, just the original driver's signature from earlier that day. They are not even sure the van in question actually visited that delivery, then drove home that way past the camera.
vonhosen said:
Yes should be a manual 'other work' entry on the tacho card, but you did say originally there were 'no other records' entered after 1230.
As I said as well, prudent also where you are driving a not 'in scope' vehicle as part of your day to separately record the vehicle details that formed part of that 'other work'.
You are correct, there isn't really an excuse for me not to have done it.As I said as well, prudent also where you are driving a not 'in scope' vehicle as part of your day to separately record the vehicle details that formed part of that 'other work'.
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