Next Steps- Overhang branches
Discussion
Equus said:
But be aware that as both Treehack and myself have said, and contrary to Liner33's post, it is not the school's responsibility to sort it our. They'll be doing you a favour, if they agree to do so.
I understand the legal responsibility. But schools often also want to be "good neighbours" in the community and so a friendly but polite note maybe a good method. I should have stressed that it was not an escalation of formal responsibility.
Equus said:
treehack said:
If they won't do the work then you can apply for permission to carry out a 2-3m reduction back from your property
Don't get confused between the two separate requests for advice, here: the OP's tree - so far as we've been told - is not TPO'd (so you don't need to apply for any permission from anyone: you can just cut back the branches that overhang your property).It's StanleyT's sycamore that is TPO'd and on 'unclaimed' (unregistered?) land, presumabkly with no known owner.
My road borders a college or school with a load of trees with overhanging branches and falling branches, and various other tree related issues, including roots which are impacting the sewerage pipes from my neighbour's house (who is nearer the school).
The 3 houses in my road employed a tree surgeon to write a report highlighting the dangerous trees with dead branches, overhanging the houses, and causing damage etc. The school carried out the bare basics of maintenance to remove the dangerous stuff pretty quickly, but we're left with the rest. We'll have to hire someone to get up and remove the branches we don't want which are overhanging us - you may end up having to do the same (assuming no TPO of course)
For the other guy with the TPO'd sycamore... you have my sympathies! We have 2 oak trees in the back garden, both with TPOs, and our tree officer allows them to be pruned and tidied up every 7 years, removng no more than 7 years growth. Local tree surgeon gave me some advice on how to word the (accurate) application - mostly around bird mess, h&s etc. rather than any light issues - and it's been ok. They're both neat and tidy. Next door is rented and the landlord won't do it - their tree is a monster, overhanging the house, and means there's no daylight whatsoever in the house
I wonder if a local tree surgeon could help you with the TPO application and writing it in a way the local tree officer wants to see it?
The 3 houses in my road employed a tree surgeon to write a report highlighting the dangerous trees with dead branches, overhanging the houses, and causing damage etc. The school carried out the bare basics of maintenance to remove the dangerous stuff pretty quickly, but we're left with the rest. We'll have to hire someone to get up and remove the branches we don't want which are overhanging us - you may end up having to do the same (assuming no TPO of course)
For the other guy with the TPO'd sycamore... you have my sympathies! We have 2 oak trees in the back garden, both with TPOs, and our tree officer allows them to be pruned and tidied up every 7 years, removng no more than 7 years growth. Local tree surgeon gave me some advice on how to word the (accurate) application - mostly around bird mess, h&s etc. rather than any light issues - and it's been ok. They're both neat and tidy. Next door is rented and the landlord won't do it - their tree is a monster, overhanging the house, and means there's no daylight whatsoever in the house
I wonder if a local tree surgeon could help you with the TPO application and writing it in a way the local tree officer wants to see it?Equus said:
You're obviously looking for an argument. Or perhaps just trying to cover your embarrassment at having made an antagonistic post without actually having read the question?The OP has told us he has already contacted the school. He asked what to do if they refuse, or decline to give a firm date (from which anyone but an anally retentive f
kwit would draw the reasonable conclusion that he intends to chase them up before taking further action).The school has no 'responsibility to sort it': they may be held liable for any damaged caused, but it its their decision whether they take pre-emptive action. It is well established that occupiers have a right to trim non-TPO'd/protected branches overhanging their property though, provided that they offer the cuttings back to the owner of the tree.
It's not 'flexing legal muscles', it's routine maintenance of your property in line with established practice.
They have not said as yet that they will not trim the trees they said "they couldn't trim the trees until the end of the nesting season / around October"
When the school say they will not trim the trees, then he can take the action you described (I would still contact the Governors first personally)
There is no need for him to take any action or incurr any costs at this point beyond revisiting the school
)When we dealt with the school next door, it turned out they had a maintenance contract from a company. This made it tricky to get them to do any work, because they just said "our contractors inspect the trees every year and say they don't need any work." The letter from the tree surgeon outlining dangerous overhanging branches made them do some work, and I'd say their contractor is pretty useless, given the state of them.
Just worth bearing in mind, in case your school is the same - it can really make it difficult to get them to do anything!
Just worth bearing in mind, in case your school is the same - it can really make it difficult to get them to do anything!
StanleyT said:
I'll be interested in the reply to this as we're in almost the same situation, except:
1) Footpath next to us - then "unclaimed" strip, then gardens of flats.
2) This - tree on "unclaimed strip, sycamore, ~45ft high, overgrowing path, now contacting side of flats, now overhanging our low roof and within a couple of years will overhang the high roof has been going on for about 8 years.
Tree protection order on tree for last 8 years, we want to trim it, flats freeholder / leaseholder wants to trim it yet council will only let cuttings back to a certain diameter be taken - which seems to vary from year to year but has never been greater than 8 cm - which now means the contacting / overhanging branches are all that size or greater.
Both ourselves and the flats have asked "what happens if the tree does damage" to receive the same stock reply in writing on more than one occasion, reversed around that "if the tree is damaged by a non council instructed aborculturologist by default those whom have expressed in writing a desire to cut down the tree will be deemed to be a first line of inquiry against a breech of the TPO". [Spelling mistakes and made up tree cutter name courtesy of the council].
Both us and the flats have gone through the council complaints procedure to top level and then got rejected for further investigation at LGO level "which concluded that the council is following their corporate strategy and correct tree protection law, but recognise that their framework leaves us concerns". Local councilor for our Ward is a green tree-hugger and opines "that is what you have insurance for".
However, I don't really want to be in the day the tree damages a roof and insurance claims go in as whilst I've sent copies of correspondence to my insurers (and probably am paying over the odds for staying with them) I'm not sure what else to do.
There's nothing a TPO can do about an "un"fortunate lightning strike. Perhaps erect a radio aerial? On a more serious note, work can be carried out if it causes a nuisance - but you might need to get lawyered up.1) Footpath next to us - then "unclaimed" strip, then gardens of flats.
2) This - tree on "unclaimed strip, sycamore, ~45ft high, overgrowing path, now contacting side of flats, now overhanging our low roof and within a couple of years will overhang the high roof has been going on for about 8 years.
Tree protection order on tree for last 8 years, we want to trim it, flats freeholder / leaseholder wants to trim it yet council will only let cuttings back to a certain diameter be taken - which seems to vary from year to year but has never been greater than 8 cm - which now means the contacting / overhanging branches are all that size or greater.
Both ourselves and the flats have asked "what happens if the tree does damage" to receive the same stock reply in writing on more than one occasion, reversed around that "if the tree is damaged by a non council instructed aborculturologist by default those whom have expressed in writing a desire to cut down the tree will be deemed to be a first line of inquiry against a breech of the TPO". [Spelling mistakes and made up tree cutter name courtesy of the council].
Both us and the flats have gone through the council complaints procedure to top level and then got rejected for further investigation at LGO level "which concluded that the council is following their corporate strategy and correct tree protection law, but recognise that their framework leaves us concerns". Local councilor for our Ward is a green tree-hugger and opines "that is what you have insurance for".
However, I don't really want to be in the day the tree damages a roof and insurance claims go in as whilst I've sent copies of correspondence to my insurers (and probably am paying over the odds for staying with them) I'm not sure what else to do.
If you have branches that big I'd be giving serious attention to the radius and impact of the roots (two thirds of the tree height as a rule of thumb).
The owner of the tree is responsible for 3rd party damage/consequences and the mitigation of such 'damage'.
Give fair warning otherwise get quotes for the work to be done and give it to the tree owner with statement the work will be actioned within x days.
The owner of the tree is responsible for 3rd party damage/consequences and the mitigation of such 'damage'.
Give fair warning otherwise get quotes for the work to be done and give it to the tree owner with statement the work will be actioned within x days.
Chances are its just sitting on the school business managers to-do list and the premises manager told them to wait until half term as they can't close off half the playground or whatever when the kids are in school.
We get stuff like this all the time and it always gets done, just at a "schools pace" which is pretty slow!
We get stuff like this all the time and it always gets done, just at a "schools pace" which is pretty slow!
Most schools are local authority run and they as has been said get allocated a budget to manage. I'd seriously doubt any provision or allowance has been made in their budget for such work so they'd have to find money from elsewhere - so no new minibus this year! The school could approach their local authority and ask them if they'd take action. The problem is they will be struggling too - when speaking to my local arbocultural officer he said their budget had been cut and they didn't have the team they used to so now there can be a 2 year wait for anything to be done. I'm not even sure they have the time to inspect the woodland surrounding us anymore.
elanfan said:
Most schools are local authority run and they as has been said get allocated a budget to manage. I'd seriously doubt any provision or allowance has been made in their budget for such work so they'd have to find money from elsewhere - so no new minibus this year! The school could approach their local authority and ask them if they'd take action. The problem is they will be struggling too - when speaking to my local arbocultural officer he said their budget had been cut and they didn't have the team they used to so now there can be a 2 year wait for anything to be done. I'm not even sure they have the time to inspect the woodland surrounding us anymore.
I might be mistaken, but it may be a statutory duty for an LA once a concern is reported.Vaud said:
elanfan said:
Most schools are local authority run and they as has been said get allocated a budget to manage. I'd seriously doubt any provision or allowance has been made in their budget for such work so they'd have to find money from elsewhere - so no new minibus this year! The school could approach their local authority and ask them if they'd take action. The problem is they will be struggling too - when speaking to my local arbocultural officer he said their budget had been cut and they didn't have the team they used to so now there can be a 2 year wait for anything to be done. I'm not even sure they have the time to inspect the woodland surrounding us anymore.
I might be mistaken, but it may be a statutory duty for an LA once a concern is reported.elanfan said:
I don't know about a statutory duty but the problem for them once they are made aware of something potentially dangerous then if anything untoward happens then they will be liable. The problem can still be manpower - they could have stFf enough to carry out inspections but not enough to follow through on what they've found effectively leaving them firefighting the important stuff whilst everything else gets backed up.
But the point about a stat. duty is they have to do it. They can't prioritise (within reason). They have to find the funds and resources, even if they have to outsource.Just received email reply back from the school which is summarised below:
- Sought advice from ground maintenance and also a tree surveyor, and both concluded no health and safety concerns and advised not to take any actions
- they will monitor regularly trees and whenever it is deemed appropriate necessary action will be taken
- if we decide to trim the tree on our side, they state the school is under no obligation and will not be liable to pay for any fees incurred
chip* said:
Just received email reply back from the school which is summarised below:
What are you hoping to gain by going down this route? - Sought advice from ground maintenance and also a tree surveyor, and both concluded no health and safety concerns and advised not to take any actions
- they will monitor regularly trees and whenever it is deemed appropriate necessary action will be taken
- if we decide to trim the tree on our side, they state the school is under no obligation and will not be liable to pay for any fees incurred
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