Dispute with a car transporter - damaged car and missing key
Discussion
If I've missed this then apologies - but have you had absolute confirmation that the dealer sent both keys?
If so, then your priority has to be getting the key back.
I'd pay the £250 in order to get the key back, then give them the opportunity to pay for the wheel refurb. If they refuse, then small claims is an option if the cost merits the effort, and you feel you can prove that they did the damage (i.e. some evidence other than you saw it happen).
Do you have it in writing that they will return the key if you pay the bill? Because you probably also need to be thinking about the possibility they have lost the key...
If so, then your priority has to be getting the key back.
I'd pay the £250 in order to get the key back, then give them the opportunity to pay for the wheel refurb. If they refuse, then small claims is an option if the cost merits the effort, and you feel you can prove that they did the damage (i.e. some evidence other than you saw it happen).
Do you have it in writing that they will return the key if you pay the bill? Because you probably also need to be thinking about the possibility they have lost the key...
_dobbo_ said:
If I've missed this then apologies - but have you had absolute confirmation that the dealer sent both keys?
If so, then your priority has to be getting the key back.
I'd pay the £250 in order to get the key back, then give them the opportunity to pay for the wheel refurb. If they refuse, then small claims is an option if the cost merits the effort, and you feel you can prove that they did the damage (i.e. some evidence other than you saw it happen).
Do you have it in writing that they will return the key if you pay the bill? Because you probably also need to be thinking about the possibility they have lost the key...
Dealer told me he has handed both keys over (he's a reputable person and I have no reason not to believe him) and they confirmed in txt message they will send the key after I pay them however I have asked for a photo of the key to be send to me first and haven't received it which makes me suspicious whether they still have it or they lost it or chucked to the bin in anger (I would expect it going by the reaction I got from the driver when he called me and started swearing at me).If so, then your priority has to be getting the key back.
I'd pay the £250 in order to get the key back, then give them the opportunity to pay for the wheel refurb. If they refuse, then small claims is an option if the cost merits the effort, and you feel you can prove that they did the damage (i.e. some evidence other than you saw it happen).
Do you have it in writing that they will return the key if you pay the bill? Because you probably also need to be thinking about the possibility they have lost the key...
Basically I haven't paid them yet as based on their conduct to date I do not trust them to send me back the key.
You are not in breach of contract. The contract is to deliver the goods to you in the same state they were dispatched in a professional manner. The contrcat was not to deliver most of what was sent damaged and incomplete.
They breached the contract. Don't pay and sue them for the cost of repairs and the key/any related costs. Give them 7 days to put matters right, do in it writing.
They breached the contract. Don't pay and sue them for the cost of repairs and the key/any related costs. Give them 7 days to put matters right, do in it writing.
s4tronic said:
assuming they do sue me to small claims court, if the court finds in their favour then do I simply pay and counter sue for at this point? How does this appear then in my financial history? i.e. has to be declared etc?
Can they offload the debt to any debt collection agencies without court order?
My worry is if I decide to leave it and they pursue through court
a) I'll have to pay more than £250 and will have to then prove my case against them
b) it causes me hassle with work as I work in financial services and need to have clear history.
You put your counter-claim in at the same time as you file your defence. The judge then hears the claim and counter-claim together, and is likely to net one claim off against the other if they are both valid.Can they offload the debt to any debt collection agencies without court order?
My worry is if I decide to leave it and they pursue through court
a) I'll have to pay more than £250 and will have to then prove my case against them
b) it causes me hassle with work as I work in financial services and need to have clear history.
If you pay the sum ordered then, as far as I am aware, there is no record on your financial history (as I believe CCJs relate only to unsatisfied orders - someone will correct me if that is wrong). if you pay then there is no need for them to use any debt-collection agencies.
What does the paperwork say about damage, liability etc?
At this point your counter claim is for the wheel damage - you have to proceed on the basis you will get your key if you pay the invoice.
So - all this talk of court is based on £75 which if it were me, I'd suck up and settle for leaving a bad review, vs the hassle and stress it hardly seems worth it.
Now if you pay, and your key doesn't materialise, you're talking about the expense of two new keys coded to the car and the originals removed - and then court becomes a much more realistic outcome.
So in your position I'd pay, and hope to get the key. Then worry about court if needed after this.
Withholding the £250 and waiting for it to get to court seems like making trouble for yourself.
So - all this talk of court is based on £75 which if it were me, I'd suck up and settle for leaving a bad review, vs the hassle and stress it hardly seems worth it.
Now if you pay, and your key doesn't materialise, you're talking about the expense of two new keys coded to the car and the originals removed - and then court becomes a much more realistic outcome.
So in your position I'd pay, and hope to get the key. Then worry about court if needed after this.
Withholding the £250 and waiting for it to get to court seems like making trouble for yourself.
will_ said:
Personally I wouldn't pay the £250 (even if that puts you in breach of contract). Let them sue you, and then you can counter-claim for your losses.
This has some practical advantages:
1. They have to go through the effort of issuing proceedings - I doubt that they will.
2. You, as the defendant, can elect to have the case heard at your local court - that means more cost and hassle for them.
I doubt very much that they will do anything further - it is too much effort for relatively little reward, and they will know that the messages which they sent you are unhelpful to their position.
Can you disable the spare key, and just buy (and re-code) a replacement? Or do you need to change all the locks?
Also, was there a damage report when they collected the car (if so, presumably it shows no damage to the wheels)? Is the damage to the alloy marked on the return report?
That’s pretty much what I was going to say. Offer to pay the £250 less the cost of the wheel repair when you have the key back. Put that in writing and that document can be produced in the very unlikely event that they sue. Almost certainly they will huff & puff and threaten you with all sorts of legal stuff but without going to Court first they can’t do much at all. This has some practical advantages:
1. They have to go through the effort of issuing proceedings - I doubt that they will.
2. You, as the defendant, can elect to have the case heard at your local court - that means more cost and hassle for them.
I doubt very much that they will do anything further - it is too much effort for relatively little reward, and they will know that the messages which they sent you are unhelpful to their position.
Can you disable the spare key, and just buy (and re-code) a replacement? Or do you need to change all the locks?
Also, was there a damage report when they collected the car (if so, presumably it shows no damage to the wheels)? Is the damage to the alloy marked on the return report?
Your credit rating is only damaged if you lose in Court and still don’t pay. Bailiffs can’t do much without a Court order.
Good luck op and be strong.
There is no paper work. Contract was agreed through Shiply. Thats the whole blurb on the terms and conditions.
By accepting our quote you are agreeing to the following
(Please do not add other items after quote)
2- At the moment quote is given, there are not fixed dates or times for loading and unloading
(Please do not try arrange on our behalf)
3- This quote is for vehicle to be transported as EMPTY BACK LOAD at our availability. WE will arrange collection and delivery with both parties after booking. All jobs will be completed within 5 working days after quote acceptance . We will ignore any fixed dates on listing.
4- Payments must be done before or by the time vehicle is delivered. Bank transference's must be cleared before the vehicle is delivered.
______________________________
We should be able to collect your vehicle most days of the week as we always have trucks collecting and delivering around the country everyday. Get in touch with us with your intentions before accepting quote if you have a deadline for the vehicle to be picked up and delivered, so we're sure we will be able to meet your requirements. We normally deliver next day but you will be advised when to expect the vehicle before it is picked up. Your vehicle will be TRANSPORTED by professional drivers (2 drivers per truck).We operate two 3.5T trucks so we can deliver to your door even if access is not the best, we also operate a 5.5T for all those 4x4 and vans that need to be moved, and also a 12T truck to move machinery and tractors etc, all our trucks are under under 3 years of age and are equipped with pneumatic suspension for lower vehicles, jump starter for those vehicles that have a flat battery..so your vehicle will be safely and legally carried. For your peace of mind, we have 100k motor trader insurance cover ( only insurance that covers a vehicle being transported for hire&reward). We also have operators license how the law requires. The sooner you accept quote the sooner we will be in touch with you to arrange collection and delivery and the sooner your vehicle will be transported. If you choose us, you will not be disappointed. Many thanks
There was a delivery note on which I made a note that alloy wheel was damaged during parking but I didn't sign it and driver didn't give it back to me.
Upon collection I just had txt from the driver that he collected the car and photo of minor scratches on the bottom of the bumper. No report of any other damage (as there was none!)
- ***************************************
By accepting our quote you are agreeing to the following
- TERMS&CONDITIONS*
(Please do not add other items after quote)
2- At the moment quote is given, there are not fixed dates or times for loading and unloading
(Please do not try arrange on our behalf)
3- This quote is for vehicle to be transported as EMPTY BACK LOAD at our availability. WE will arrange collection and delivery with both parties after booking. All jobs will be completed within 5 working days after quote acceptance . We will ignore any fixed dates on listing.
4- Payments must be done before or by the time vehicle is delivered. Bank transference's must be cleared before the vehicle is delivered.
______________________________
We should be able to collect your vehicle most days of the week as we always have trucks collecting and delivering around the country everyday. Get in touch with us with your intentions before accepting quote if you have a deadline for the vehicle to be picked up and delivered, so we're sure we will be able to meet your requirements. We normally deliver next day but you will be advised when to expect the vehicle before it is picked up. Your vehicle will be TRANSPORTED by professional drivers (2 drivers per truck).We operate two 3.5T trucks so we can deliver to your door even if access is not the best, we also operate a 5.5T for all those 4x4 and vans that need to be moved, and also a 12T truck to move machinery and tractors etc, all our trucks are under under 3 years of age and are equipped with pneumatic suspension for lower vehicles, jump starter for those vehicles that have a flat battery..so your vehicle will be safely and legally carried. For your peace of mind, we have 100k motor trader insurance cover ( only insurance that covers a vehicle being transported for hire&reward). We also have operators license how the law requires. The sooner you accept quote the sooner we will be in touch with you to arrange collection and delivery and the sooner your vehicle will be transported. If you choose us, you will not be disappointed. Many thanks
- ***************************************
There was a delivery note on which I made a note that alloy wheel was damaged during parking but I didn't sign it and driver didn't give it back to me.
Upon collection I just had txt from the driver that he collected the car and photo of minor scratches on the bottom of the bumper. No report of any other damage (as there was none!)
they deliver cars up and down all the time I was led to believe (before things went sour) so I did offer as well that one of the drivers drops off the key at my house at some point in future when they're up in Edinburgh next and I can pay cash - no acknowledgement whatsoever from the owner.
The Spruce goose said:
Have you thought about just going to see them in person might be able to resolve it better as you want the key.
Would you really want to visit someone in person who has previously been extremely aggressive and unreasonable on the phone? I know I wouldn't, regardless if I was a powerfully build company director or not.s4tronic said:
they deliver cars up and down all the time I was led to believe (before things went sour) so I did offer as well that one of the drivers drops off the key at my house at some point in future when they're up in Edinburgh next and I can pay cash - no acknowledgement whatsoever from the owner.
I wonder if they’ve lost the key? The driver sounds sounds incompetent so very possible.Even more important not to pay the £250 imo.
s4tronic said:
assuming they do sue me to small claims court, if the court finds in their favour then do I simply pay and counter sue for at this point?
No. You pre-empt that by including the counterclaim in your defence document - https://www.smallclaimscourtgenie.co.uk/help-ive-b...The court should hear both together. If in doubt ask up front for this to happen.
s4tronic said:
How does this appear then in my financial history? i.e. has to be declared etc?
Nothing will appear unless you lose and fail to pay - https://www.equifax.co.uk/resources/Debtmanagement...s4tronic said:
Can they offload the debt to any debt collection agencies without court order?
Anyone can instruct a DCA re an alleged debt at any time. However the latter cannot do anything effective without a court judgment.All you need to do is write back saying the debt is disputed and they must refer it back to the creditor
Tell the DCA (nicely) to go swivel - https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/if-i-disp...
s4tronic said:
My worry is if I decide to leave it and they pursue through court
a) I'll have to pay more than £250 and will have to then prove my case against them
b) it causes me hassle with work as I work in financial services and need to have clear history.
If you sit tight, the next step is up to them. Either they do or they don't. Don't waste your time and energy fretting over it. .a) I'll have to pay more than £250 and will have to then prove my case against them
b) it causes me hassle with work as I work in financial services and need to have clear history.
a) see above re your counterclaim.
b) I totally understand your concern re your employment but no CCJ should appear on your file unless you cock up.
You're trying to cross a bridge which may not even be there and getting your kickers in a knot unnecessarily.
Listen to some calming music and relax.
Your bigger problem tbh is the missing key. If you can't get it back and the driver, or any of his mates, is a scrote...
You'll then need to reprogram so that the missing one will no longer work.
A main stealer may well try to charge you a king's ransom for this.
Use an auto locksmith - https://www.lockfix24.co.uk/blog/2015/9/18/lost-yo...
Or look to see if there see if there is a youtube tutorial on the web.
You used Shipley - exactly what sort of service do you really expect to get from a guy loading your car on the back of a truck for a bargain price?
£250 from London to Edinburgh is cheap as chips so you can't realistically expect a gold standard service when you pay low prices on Shipley - does this not occur to you?
Use the money you saved on your cheap delivery to get your wheel refurbished at your local alloy wheel specialist (£40 to £90).
The truck driver kept the spare key when he realised you were likely to be a problem customer - pay them the money and you will get your key back ( or you might not but that's the problem using someone like this).
£250 from London to Edinburgh is cheap as chips so you can't realistically expect a gold standard service when you pay low prices on Shipley - does this not occur to you?
Use the money you saved on your cheap delivery to get your wheel refurbished at your local alloy wheel specialist (£40 to £90).
The truck driver kept the spare key when he realised you were likely to be a problem customer - pay them the money and you will get your key back ( or you might not but that's the problem using someone like this).
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