Lorry drivers who think the are the Police
Discussion
Chrisgr31 said:
Centurion07 said:
How long will a lane of 50 cars be versus two lanes of 25 cars each?
As has been mentioned, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SPEED OF THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THE PINCH POINT.
Whats the relevance of the length of the queue? It might be of relevance to traffic managers etc but drivers will want to be through the obstruction as quickly as possibly, therefore surely as a driver you want the speed through the pinchpoint as fast as possible?As has been mentioned, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SPEED OF THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THE PINCH POINT.
All you've done is move the merge point further back and increased the length of the queue.
Merge at the cones and there's no ambiguity, no confusion.
The drop in speed caused by merging that Road Captains like to quote is going to happen whether people all merge early or at the cones, so it might as well be at the cones to keep queue length at a minimum.
Edited by Centurion07 on Wednesday 22 November 22:11
Centurion07 said:
Chrisgr31 said:
Centurion07 said:
How long will a lane of 50 cars be versus two lanes of 25 cars each?
As has been mentioned, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SPEED OF THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THE PINCH POINT.
Whats the relevance of the length of the queue? It might be of relevance to traffic managers etc but drivers will want to be through the obstruction as quickly as possibly, therefore surely as a driver you want the speed through the pinchpoint as fast as possible?As has been mentioned, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SPEED OF THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THE PINCH POINT.
All you've done is move the merge point further back and increased the length of the queue.
Merge at the cones and there's no ambiguity, no confusion.
The drop in speed caused by merging that Road Captains like to quote is going to happen whether people all merge early or at the cones, so it might as well be at the cones to keep queue length at a minimum.
Edited by Centurion07 on Wednesday 22 November 22:11
Lopey said:
Have you ever driven on a road before? The questions you're asking are what I'd expect from a five year old.
Well in that case perhaps you can explain how I can drive faster than the car in front?After all the whole issue with the merge point only occurs when the traffic is heavy.
OddCat said:
Am up for merging when both lanes of traffic are moving at roughly the same speed.
But if the lane into which everyone is merging is virtually stationary (due to congestion after the merge point), and is backed up to well before the merge point, then all drivers should be joining end of the queue in main lane knowing full well that the other lane ends and merging ain't happening. Anyone zipping past everyone down the empty lane is simply queue jumping......
Once again; there are 2 queues, 1 in each lane. People should always choose to join the shorter queue to fill up the available road space in the empty lane. That way there won't be any opportunity for others to zip past. But if the lane into which everyone is merging is virtually stationary (due to congestion after the merge point), and is backed up to well before the merge point, then all drivers should be joining end of the queue in main lane knowing full well that the other lane ends and merging ain't happening. Anyone zipping past everyone down the empty lane is simply queue jumping......
It's those that choose to join the longer queue that are causing the problems.
Centurion07 said:
Merging early doesn't achieve that, does it?!
All you've done is move the merge point further back and increased the length of the queue.
Merge at the cones and there's no ambiguity, no confusion.
The drop in speed caused by merging that Road Captains like to quote is going to happen whether people all merge early or at the cones, so it might as well be at the cones to keep queue length at a minimum.
But of course the road captains are doing exactly what you want, they are moving the merge point back to pinchpointAll you've done is move the merge point further back and increased the length of the queue.
Merge at the cones and there's no ambiguity, no confusion.
The drop in speed caused by merging that Road Captains like to quote is going to happen whether people all merge early or at the cones, so it might as well be at the cones to keep queue length at a minimum.
OddCat said:
Interesting that, at airport check in, it is now more common to make everyone queue in a single snaking line. Splitting between check in desks at the end. presumably more efficient. That way there is none if the "oh bugger we chose the wrong queue" malarkey. And check in desk usage is optimised.
Perhaps it's more efficient for everyone to form a single queue as quickly (early) as possible, and then move smoothly through the slow moving pinch point as one line, rather than a log jam at the pinch point with people jamming on brakes to let others merge. When I say "perhaps" I mean "obviously"....
If you got 100 drivers of mixed ability on a long dual carriageway that goes into one lane I bet everyone would get through more quickly if they organized themselves into a singe line way before the pinch point. They could go through at 70 no probs. Try getting people of varying skill to merge at that speed.
Where would you suggest the merge point is, if not in the location where the road planners decided to put it?Perhaps it's more efficient for everyone to form a single queue as quickly (early) as possible, and then move smoothly through the slow moving pinch point as one line, rather than a log jam at the pinch point with people jamming on brakes to let others merge. When I say "perhaps" I mean "obviously"....
If you got 100 drivers of mixed ability on a long dual carriageway that goes into one lane I bet everyone would get through more quickly if they organized themselves into a singe line way before the pinch point. They could go through at 70 no probs. Try getting people of varying skill to merge at that speed.
Mandat said:
jm doc said:
The road captains get through quicker though.
They'd get through even more quickly if they used both lanes as intended, instead of blocking other traffic from doing so.Everyone on here is assuming they get a kick out of blocking the road and appearing to be road angels by preventing those disgraceful "queue jumpers".
The reality is that it gets them through quicker and they know it.
jm doc said:
No they wouldn't, that's the whole point. They get to the queue, block the outside lane and then they are straight into the single lane without any merging taking place in front of them and slowing them down.
Everyone on here is assuming they get a kick out of blocking the road and appearing to be road angels by preventing those disgraceful "queue jumpers".
The reality is that it gets them through quicker and they know it.
OK, I get it now. Everyone on here is assuming they get a kick out of blocking the road and appearing to be road angels by preventing those disgraceful "queue jumpers".
The reality is that it gets them through quicker and they know it.
They are just being selfish and inconsiderate, with a f
k you attitude to all other drivers behind them. (sigh)
I am responsible for a lot of the cones around my way. I spent ten years doing it day-to-day on motorways and trunk roads. I tell the contractors where to put the tapers, lane drops, etc. I have to provide safe taper locations, with enough visibility for fast approaching traffic, and away from event sections such as junctions and laybys. Usually you allow 200m per action on a high speed road, so dropping a lane would take 200m, switching from one lane to another would take another 200m, so you don't have cars swooping around all over the place.
The merge point is chosen precisely to aid everyone. To allow people to arrange themselves and merge at speed if circumstances allow, and sufficient stacking space to allow approaching traffic to see the queue with sufficient distance to stop. Finding the right point can sometimes be very tricky, with laybys every 2km and plenty of junctions hence sometimes you get longer sections of cones than you'd normally like. They are agreed with the police and various affected traffic authorities. There is a long paper trail covering many aspects that needs to be completed before the taper locations are signed off. It is not taken lightly and is often one of the key go/no-go elements of highway working.
Uneducated truck drivers taking the law in to their own hands are neither helpful nor welcome.
I am responsible for a lot of the cones around my way. I spent ten years doing it day-to-day on motorways and trunk roads. I tell the contractors where to put the tapers, lane drops, etc. I have to provide safe taper locations, with enough visibility for fast approaching traffic, and away from event sections such as junctions and laybys. Usually you allow 200m per action on a high speed road, so dropping a lane would take 200m, switching from one lane to another would take another 200m, so you don't have cars swooping around all over the place.
The merge point is chosen precisely to aid everyone. To allow people to arrange themselves and merge at speed if circumstances allow, and sufficient stacking space to allow approaching traffic to see the queue with sufficient distance to stop. Finding the right point can sometimes be very tricky, with laybys every 2km and plenty of junctions hence sometimes you get longer sections of cones than you'd normally like. They are agreed with the police and various affected traffic authorities. There is a long paper trail covering many aspects that needs to be completed before the taper locations are signed off. It is not taken lightly and is often one of the key go/no-go elements of highway working.
Uneducated truck drivers taking the law in to their own hands are neither helpful nor welcome.
I'm somewhat struggling here to identify between trolling and... well failing to get the idea of it. I came across a road captain hgv driver last week. He was blocking a bmw going past, a good 150m from the actual merge point. Both lanes now fairly stationary because he was leaving a massive gap in front,probably from looking in his mirror at who he was stopping and not where he was going. Cue me filtering between the gap in a low gear, giving a wtf hand signal to the lorry driver and carrying on my day merging peacefully at the merge point.
Slightly OT, if using both lanes fully can make "everyone in a one mile radius hate you", dread to think how many people hate us bikers and our inconsiderate and anti social filtering
Slightly OT, if using both lanes fully can make "everyone in a one mile radius hate you", dread to think how many people hate us bikers and our inconsiderate and anti social filtering
Its the act of everyone merging at the same point that creates the slow traffic. Look at motorways, they come to a complete stop where a slip road joins in heavy traffic yet they are free flowing before and after it.
I know roadworks can't be helped but there are other areas with short stretches of two lanes that merge into one again, it creates chaos, it would be perfectly fine if it was a single lane all the way.
I know roadworks can't be helped but there are other areas with short stretches of two lanes that merge into one again, it creates chaos, it would be perfectly fine if it was a single lane all the way.
Maybe there is a difference between:
1. a two into one 50/50 merge
2. a "your lane ends soon so you need to make your way across to the priority (continuing) lane well beforehand otherwise you are screwed" situation
Where the priority lane is backed up to / near stationary well before the pinch point, option number 2 isn't a merge. It like joining the "till closed" queue and then expecting to nip across and 'merge' into the "till open" queue (try doing that).
Unfortunately, for all the "letter of the highway code" warrior types out there (who never, ever, do more than 70 of course......) the general perception of Joe Public is that, having had plenty of warning, folks should get themselves organised and into the lane that is continuing as soon as possible and not at the last minute.....
Cue Highway Code police........
1. a two into one 50/50 merge
2. a "your lane ends soon so you need to make your way across to the priority (continuing) lane well beforehand otherwise you are screwed" situation
Where the priority lane is backed up to / near stationary well before the pinch point, option number 2 isn't a merge. It like joining the "till closed" queue and then expecting to nip across and 'merge' into the "till open" queue (try doing that).
Unfortunately, for all the "letter of the highway code" warrior types out there (who never, ever, do more than 70 of course......) the general perception of Joe Public is that, having had plenty of warning, folks should get themselves organised and into the lane that is continuing as soon as possible and not at the last minute.....
Cue Highway Code police........
mickmcpaddy said:
I know roadworks can't be helped but there are other areas with short stretches of two lanes that merge into one again, it creates chaos, it would be perfectly fine if it was a single lane all the way.
Years ago, the Brentwood Bypass in Essex went from 2 lanes to 3 as a slip road joined and turned in to a lane gain. 3 miles later, the lane dropped due to a pinchpoint at a bridge. This caused huge congestion every rush hour. We took the third lane out, and kept it 2 lanes the whole way. The armchair experts were out in force saying that we hated cars, wanted all vehicles of the road etc. Since we took the lane out, the traffic flow has improved hugely. Average speeds are up, flow is up, it works well, and the marked-off lane is a good hard shoulder for breakdowns. Sometimes reducing the number of lanes does good things for the traffic...
I'm just wondering how some of these drivers actually get onto a motorway using a slip road. Surely they manage to understand the concept of merge in turn at the pinch point, or am I missing all of these cars and lorries tumbling down the embankment trying to get onto the motorway at the earliest opportunity?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff