Lorry drivers who think the are the Police
Discussion
OddCat said:
I didn't say "it can only be done". I said "it only works". As in "people only do it". Once you have a solid virtually stationary queue of people who feel they got across into lane one in good time (for a merge that has been there for years not some sudden traffic cone / road works malarkey) simply don't feel kindly pre-disposed to folks bombing up the outside (closing) lane and expecting to "merge".
The manual can say what it likes. I'm just saying what happens. In the real world. Every day. And once sufficient people do it then that becomes the protocol. People power.
I still maintain that a single uninterrupted line of cars will get through a 2 into 1 arrangement better than two rows braking and faffing about trying to zip. This is what the people "breaking the rule" are effectively achieving. If I'm in lane one and an HGV warrior blocks off lane 2 behind me, I see an immediate multi fold improvement in the speed I'm doing once one simple line of cars is moving through the pinch point. As soon as a single car comes down the outside and 'merges' then 20+ cars on the inside end up braking and the last one grinds to a halt. I'm sorry to upset all the Highway Code and and road planners but it is simply the case.
The line of traffic moves fastest when drivers spread out a bit instead of pinning themselves to the car in front - regardless of any other circumstances.The manual can say what it likes. I'm just saying what happens. In the real world. Every day. And once sufficient people do it then that becomes the protocol. People power.
I still maintain that a single uninterrupted line of cars will get through a 2 into 1 arrangement better than two rows braking and faffing about trying to zip. This is what the people "breaking the rule" are effectively achieving. If I'm in lane one and an HGV warrior blocks off lane 2 behind me, I see an immediate multi fold improvement in the speed I'm doing once one simple line of cars is moving through the pinch point. As soon as a single car comes down the outside and 'merges' then 20+ cars on the inside end up braking and the last one grinds to a halt. I'm sorry to upset all the Highway Code and and road planners but it is simply the case.
OddCat said:
I didn't say "it can only be done". I said "it only works". As in "people only do it". Once you have a solid virtually stationary queue of people who feel they got across into lane one in good time (for a merge that has been there for years not some sudden traffic cone / road works malarkey) simply don't feel kindly pre-disposed to folks bombing up the outside (closing) lane and expecting to "merge".
The manual can say what it likes. I'm just saying what happens. In the real world. Every day. And once sufficient people do it then that becomes the protocol. People power.
I still maintain that a single uninterrupted line of cars will get through a 2 into 1 arrangement better than two rows braking and faffing about trying to zip. This is what the people "breaking the rule" are effectively achieving. If I'm in lane one and an HGV warrior blocks off lane 2 behind me, I see an immediate multi fold improvement in the speed I'm doing once one simple line of cars is moving through the pinch point. As soon as a single car comes down the outside and 'merges' then 20+ cars on the inside end up braking and the last one grinds to a halt. I'm sorry to upset all the Highway Code and and road planners but it is simply the case.
It wouldn't be the case if the muppets allowed the cars to merge as they are supposed to. They wouldn't have to brake. The manual can say what it likes. I'm just saying what happens. In the real world. Every day. And once sufficient people do it then that becomes the protocol. People power.
I still maintain that a single uninterrupted line of cars will get through a 2 into 1 arrangement better than two rows braking and faffing about trying to zip. This is what the people "breaking the rule" are effectively achieving. If I'm in lane one and an HGV warrior blocks off lane 2 behind me, I see an immediate multi fold improvement in the speed I'm doing once one simple line of cars is moving through the pinch point. As soon as a single car comes down the outside and 'merges' then 20+ cars on the inside end up braking and the last one grinds to a halt. I'm sorry to upset all the Highway Code and and road planners but it is simply the case.
Arguing that people shouldn't use the roads properly because others are too thick to do so is quite a weak arguments.
Having said that Opulent Bob and his road designing mates could make it work a bit better if both lanes merges into a centre one rather than the right land merging into the left.
Couple that with some signage and old fashioned TV adverts showing people how its done then we may get somewhere.
IroningMan said:
The line of traffic moves fastest when drivers spread out a bit instead of pinning themselves to the car in front - regardless of any other circumstances.
...and even more quickly when they are not then having to brake (which they will invariably do) to let in 'mergers'. Which is exactly what I am saying.blueg33 said:
It wouldn't be the case if the muppets allowed the cars to merge as they are supposed to. They wouldn't have to brake.
But they do (brake). blueg33 said:
Arguing that people shouldn't use the roads properly because others are too thick to do so is quite a weak arguments.
But it's true.blueg33 said:
Having said that Opulent Bob and his road designing mates could make it work a bit better if both lanes merges into a centre one rather than the right land merging into the left..
Hell yes. Absolutely.By moving to the inside lane early, and not merging people, are effectively (accidentally) compensating for their lack of ability / understanding. Because if everyone does that then everyone also gets through:
a) more quickly
b) in roughly the order in which they were already on the road
Unless someone is going to tell me that if you take 200 average Joe drivers and make them go through a merge in a single organised line at 60 they will be slower than they would be if they went through as two rows of 100 cars at 60 doing a zip merge. And that no one will mis-judge and brake. Because if one person does.......
.
OddCat said:
...and even more quickly when they are not then having to brake (which they will invariably do) to let in 'mergers'. Which is exactly what I am saying.
The merge needs to happen at some point on the road. Where do you suggest that this merge happens, if not at the merge point that the traffic planners have designed and implemented?
Okay, if you're right and EVERYONE else is wrong, give me one piece of evidence, actual evidence, of any motoring organisation, any government department or individual, or anyone else even vaguely connected with roads/traffic management, that say you should merge well in advance of the physical merge point.
Just one.
Just one.
OddCat said:
Unless someone is going to tell me that if you take 200 average Joe drivers and make them go through a merge in a single organised line at 60 they will be slower than they would be if they went through as two rows of 100 cars at 60 doing a zip merge. And that no one will mis-judge and brake. Because if one person does.......
If the 200 drivers are already organised in a single line, then where is the merging of the 2 lanes?You haven't really thought this through, have you?
OddCat said:
Unless someone is going to tell me that if you take 200 average Joe drivers and make them go through a merge in a single organised line at 60 they will be slower than they would be if they went through as two rows of 100 cars at 60 doing a zip merge. And that no one will mis-judge and brake. Because if one person does.......
If the road is lightly trafficked enough that people can manage 60 through a pinch point then it doesn't much matter what everyone does, they'll get through quickly. It's more of an issue when the road does not have capacity for the traffic, as which point it'll be much slower than 60. At that point a zip is faster as it allows for a predicable merge point so that people don't slam on when someone merges in front of them unexpectedly before the pinch point.
Mandat said:
OddCat said:
Unless someone is going to tell me that if you take 200 average Joe drivers and make them go through a merge in a single organised line at 60 they will be slower than they would be if they went through as two rows of 100 cars at 60 doing a zip merge. And that no one will mis-judge and brake. Because if one person does.......
If the 200 drivers are already organised in a single line, then where is the merging of the 2 lanes?You haven't really thought this through, have you?
Mandat said:
OddCat said:
...and even more quickly when they are not then having to brake (which they will invariably do) to let in 'mergers'. Which is exactly what I am saying.
The merge needs to happen at some point on the road. Where do you suggest that this merge happens, if not at the merge point that the traffic planners have designed and implemented?
Essentially, why leave it till the last minute ? The only benefit of that is that the two lines are shorter than one line in case the queues back up to the point where a problem is caused.
Anyway, my original point many, many, posts ago was that when the traffic is backed up to well before the merge point in a situation where the backing up doesn't cause an issue (other than delaying everyone who is backed up), the merging thing isn't then working where the priority lane is slowed to a near stop. Regardless of where the road merges, in this situation the merge point is effectively behind the last car in the queue for the lane that doesn't end. Once the traffic is backed up, all bets are off......
I see this a couple of times a week on the piece of road I described earlier. Oddly, it is random depending on how many people a bit further on have been stupid enough to disrupt the flow by slowing to let in traffic from a side road (this is onto a 50mph fast straight A road). I must've been in cr
p road design merge queue, one way or another, at least 50 times this year. Trust me. I'm a bldy expert and have seen every variation of approach first hand........ Edited by OddCat on Friday 24th November 16:18
Edited by OddCat on Friday 24th November 16:20
matjk said:
Interestingly i lived in the USA and when they close lanes EVERYONE starts moving over right away, no one zooms up the empty lane and cuts in last minute, its seen as very rude and antisocial, on the flip side pretty much everyone drinks and drives so.....
Cut somebody up in the USA & you may well get shot. How long before the risk of that happening over here? After all gun crime is at an all time high & the worst of the USA gets here in the end. There does not have to be an act. The sign says merge in turn. The Highway Code suggests that’s the way it should be done.
The problem as the thread title suggests is when a hgv or a vehicle blocks the lane that is clearly there to be used and this creates an offence. Careless or inconsiderate driving, 3 bonus points on licence and a fine.
The problem as the thread title suggests is when a hgv or a vehicle blocks the lane that is clearly there to be used and this creates an offence. Careless or inconsiderate driving, 3 bonus points on licence and a fine.
WJNB said:
matjk said:
Interestingly i lived in the USA and when they close lanes EVERYONE starts moving over right away, no one zooms up the empty lane and cuts in last minute, its seen as very rude and antisocial, on the flip side pretty much everyone drinks and drives so.....
Cut somebody up in the USA & you may well get shot. How long before the risk of that happening over here? After all gun crime is at an all time high & the worst of the USA gets here in the end. In the UK its me me me. In Aberdeen on one particular roundabout there is a light conrolled pedestrian crossing on one exit, and before it on the road is a box with big white letters saying "KEEP CLEAR", so when the lights are red, traffic should keep the box clear so others from the left can enter the roundabout and exit on the other side.
I can guarantee every time I stop just before the box because the ped lights are red, some twonk behind me starts tooting, FFS cant you see I cannot go anywhere, but they do it regardless.
Chrisgr31 said:
Except what happens in the real world is that traffic does sort of merge in turn, but due to the lower capacity of the merged bit the speed is lower and therefore the merge point creeps further and further back. You eventually get a point where one land is full and stationary, the other empty. Some drivers therefore go down the empty lane to merge at the front. The problem with this being is that the traffic in the full lane has to slow even more to allow them in.
By moving out in to the empty lane the lorry drivers are allowing the traffic in the full lane to pass quickly without obstruction through the merge point and at the same time moving the merge point back to where you want it.
What utter b@ll@ksBy moving out in to the empty lane the lorry drivers are allowing the traffic in the full lane to pass quickly without obstruction through the merge point and at the same time moving the merge point back to where you want it.
Centurion07 said:
Maybe we need some sort of diagram.
I refer to the honourable member to the pics in my post on page 3. 
Centurion07 said:
Drawn in crayon.
As long as you have the artistic skills. 
None of the 'form a conga line' adherents on this thread have been able to say where the merge should begin.
All they can offer is that an open lane which is there to be used shouldn't be.
The fixation most of them seem to have with 'people racing up the outside' and 'cutting in' misses the point.
If both open lanes are utilised properly there would be no opportunity for those people they perceive as 'queue jumpers' to do so.
The issue simply wouldn't arise.
These same people bleat 'that's the way it is' as justification for doing nothing to try and remedy the situation.
The idea of educating drivers to use the avaliable road space effectively seems to be anathema to them.
One can only surmise that they daren't admit that their current perceptions might be false.
Faz50 said:
In my own vehicle I go to the end of the lane as directed by signage and merge in. Sometimes I merge in and sometimes someone tries to prevent this. Usually when I get in the person who tried to prevent me ends up having some form of heart attack at a perceived advantage gained by me.
Now, I do the exact same while at work in a police vehicle. People follow me to the end of the lane and weirdly people allow us to merge in no issue. Every time.
^^This^^Now, I do the exact same while at work in a police vehicle. People follow me to the end of the lane and weirdly people allow us to merge in no issue. Every time.
The resentful/apopletic brigade have just had their case demolished.
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