Wife stopped for illegal number plate...
Discussion
Ross_T_Boss said:
When you see the number of utter t0ssers replying on this thread, it's inevitable that some of the police force have the same attitude problem. Personally I'd fight it out of principle, and expect plod to get a proper rebuking for wasting taxpayers money and trivial non-issues.
Escalation would be the way to go, the clown has a superior who I would suspect would rather not have his put in disrepute and get it quickly and silently dissolved. If not, at least if it gets that far you can demonstrate you tried to do the sensible thing despite complete plod muppetry.
I've seen enough to know winning out of principle is often a costly exercise and probably won't result in anything other than your own satisfaction, but it'll be one you can tell the grandkids as an experience to pass the mentality down the family line. Look at many replies on this thread - too many prison b
hes to the system, someones gotta fight it!
Indeed - It's a sad fact that the legal system we have is loaded against those who can't afford the legal (and other) costs. Hopefully the OP can, and this needs defending as it is clearly incorrect.Escalation would be the way to go, the clown has a superior who I would suspect would rather not have his put in disrepute and get it quickly and silently dissolved. If not, at least if it gets that far you can demonstrate you tried to do the sensible thing despite complete plod muppetry.
I've seen enough to know winning out of principle is often a costly exercise and probably won't result in anything other than your own satisfaction, but it'll be one you can tell the grandkids as an experience to pass the mentality down the family line. Look at many replies on this thread - too many prison b
hes to the system, someones gotta fight it!La Liga said:
How has it been dealt with? I presume a Fixed Penalty Notice.
If you're satisfied the plates are legal and the police are mistaken, then you don't need to wait to go to court.
You could obtain a copy of that card (assuming it is actually accurate) that came with the plate (can the company send via PDF?), gather any other relevant information and ask to make a complaint. There you can present it all to whoever takes the complaint and they can cancel the FPN if they're satisfied a mistake has been made.
OP, You’ve nothing to lose - give this a try. If you're satisfied the plates are legal and the police are mistaken, then you don't need to wait to go to court.
You could obtain a copy of that card (assuming it is actually accurate) that came with the plate (can the company send via PDF?), gather any other relevant information and ask to make a complaint. There you can present it all to whoever takes the complaint and they can cancel the FPN if they're satisfied a mistake has been made.
RATATTAK said:
My opinion FWIW
1) The plate is legal. Spacing between digits appears to be 11mm and 33mm between groups with an 11mm border all round ... letters look to be standard size and font
2) Four Dot do some great plate designs although they are a bit pricey
Technically though from the current measures the stroke is under and the height is under the legal limits.1) The plate is legal. Spacing between digits appears to be 11mm and 33mm between groups with an 11mm border all round ... letters look to be standard size and font
2) Four Dot do some great plate designs although they are a bit pricey
All zero dot plates are 105 mm tall. It just seems very very odd with everything else spot on.
Ninja59 said:
RATATTAK said:
My opinion FWIW
1) The plate is legal. Spacing between digits appears to be 11mm and 33mm between groups with an 11mm border all round ... letters look to be standard size and font
2) Four Dot do some great plate designs although they are a bit pricey
Technically though from the current measures the stroke is under and the height is under the legal limits.1) The plate is legal. Spacing between digits appears to be 11mm and 33mm between groups with an 11mm border all round ... letters look to be standard size and font
2) Four Dot do some great plate designs although they are a bit pricey
All zero dot plates are 105 mm tall. It just seems very very odd with everything else spot on.
Breadvan72 said:
That plate looks dodgy. Pay up. Besides, having a personalised plate ought to be an imprisonable offence, so consider your wife lucky. I suppose it is an offence that carries its own punishment as a personalised plate is like a sign saying "I am a fkwit".
Oooh, touchy. I would have thought that as a successful lawyer you could afford a personal registration number. kwit". Edited by Breadvan72 on Saturday 13th January 15:50
RATATTAK said:
REALIST123 said:
Take no notice. BV is one who can look a fkwit without any outside help.
‘Butthurt’ is a common phrase with him, presumably because having his oversized head up his own arse half the time is more than little painful.
He’s more to be pitied than scorned.
I used to think he made positive contributions on PH 'till I read this thread ...kwit without any outside help. ‘Butthurt’ is a common phrase with him, presumably because having his oversized head up his own arse half the time is more than little painful.
He’s more to be pitied than scorned.
RATATTAK said:
My opinion FWIW
1) The plate is legal. Spacing between digits appears to be 11mm and 33mm between groups with an 11mm border all round ... letters look to be standard size and font
2) Four Dot do some great plate designs although they are a bit pricey
From the pictures, the stroke width (thickness of the black lines making up the letters) is 13mm, but the requirement is 14mm.1) The plate is legal. Spacing between digits appears to be 11mm and 33mm between groups with an 11mm border all round ... letters look to be standard size and font
2) Four Dot do some great plate designs although they are a bit pricey
The height of the characters is also marginally under the 79mm height requirement.
- However, this is based on measurements taken by OP, so could be inaccurate.
Ninja59 said:
Technically though from the current measures the stroke is under and the height is under the legal limits.
All zero dot plates are 105 mm tall. It just seems very very odd with everything else spot on.
But there aren't any 'legal limits' ie tollerances. The 'rules' suggest. nay, state that the size is 14mm which is not achievable. You state the stroke is under the 'legal limit', so would it be ok if it was say 14.9mm? or is that also a pull?All zero dot plates are 105 mm tall. It just seems very very odd with everything else spot on.
I'd like to make it clear I'm not attempting to be argumentative, but just reinforcing that without a tollerance I'm sure the rules are incorrect, as nobody can adhere to them - it is impossible from an engineering perspective!
Fastpedeller said:
But there aren't any 'legal limits' ie tollerances. The 'rules' suggest. nay, state that the size is 14mm which is not achievable. You state the stroke is under the 'legal limit', so would it be ok if it was say 14.9mm? or is that also a pull?
I'd like to make it clear I'm not attempting to be argumentative, but just reinforcing that without a tollerance I'm sure the rules are incorrect, as nobody can adhere to them - it is impossible from an engineering perspective!
But they are legal minimum dimensions. The risk here is that the zero plates are to the minimum levels and therefore precision is essential unlike a normal full size plate which has a significant in built margin of error.I'd like to make it clear I'm not attempting to be argumentative, but just reinforcing that without a tollerance I'm sure the rules are incorrect, as nobody can adhere to them - it is impossible from an engineering perspective!
Edited by Ninja59 on Saturday 13th January 22:29
RATATTAK said:
Please explain
The plate height is always 105mm from four dot. The 105 accounts for a few mm of plate which is actually acrylic with no reflective covering. The reflective portion only makes up the 101mm required essentially. The current measures from the OP have shown slightly undersized stroke and character font which surprises me as a previous owner of such plates (although i only shared the number 1 in a plate like the OP). My measurements on mine prior to putting them on the car involved showed it be exactly on the legal minimum requirements without any undersized characters.
The vernier caliper the OP used states an accuracy plus or minus 0.02mm but an operating range of 5 degrees celcius to 40 degrees celcius. Was it over 5oC when you measured OP? At this time of year and at night I'd doubt it. Did you definitely measure correctly? Maybe try again during the day when it's well over 5oC tomorrow (touch wood).
agtlaw said:
Red Devil said:
You were indeed the first to mention it. I followed up by asking the OP to confirm the precise wording on the FPN because that will be crucial if the matter were to be tested in court.
Any defence needs to be tailored to the actual specified charge* rather than some speculative PH alternative. If the former doesn't gel with the legislation it should be thrown out.
* A pic of the FPN (redacted where necessary) would remove all doubt. How about it OP?
Not quite as the wording on the fixed penalty is not ‘crucial’ if the matter is tested in court. If proceedings are instituted then a written charge will be issued to the defendant and it is that written charge which is subject of a trial. The prosecutor can amend the charge if there’s a perceived problem.Any defence needs to be tailored to the actual specified charge* rather than some speculative PH alternative. If the former doesn't gel with the legislation it should be thrown out.
* A pic of the FPN (redacted where necessary) would remove all doubt. How about it OP?
My money is on what another poster had said: the police have seized on the shortened backing plate which, provided everything else stacks up, is not contrary to the relevant legislation.
You're the expert, not me, but I reckon the right questions by the defence will tease this out. If that alone is what the police are relying on, the case is fundamentally flawed.
Also, if no mesaurements were taken at the time in respect of the prescribed characteristics then that won't help their case either..
agtlaw said:
Court proceedings should be avoided if at all possible. Will the police agree to bin the case if shown relevant legislation, a certificate of conformity from the supplier and measurements (only if helpful)?
I agree but that depends on someone in the process unit seeing sense. If they have it should get sacked off before it ever gets to court.From what has been posted so far any discrepancies there might be are minuscule. Surely the de minimis principle is in play here?
It's hardly in the public interest for the state to waste valuable court time on this.
agtlaw said:
It may assist to shelve the small plates and fit standard size plates with normal font. I agree with others that they look st.
Well of course it would, but that's not the issue here. The plates are either compliant or they are not.t.If they are, the OP/his o/h shouldn't be subjected to hassle on erroneous assumptions.
Aesthetics are not relevent here. I'm not one for rushing to judgment about what another car owner finds pleasing.
Ninja59 said:
Fastpedeller said:
But there aren't any 'legal limits' ie tollerances. The 'rules' suggest. nay, state that the size is 14mm which is not achievable. You state the stroke is under the 'legal limit', so would it be ok if it was say 14.9mm? or is that also a pull?
I'd like to make it clear I'm not attempting to be argumentative, but just reinforcing that without a tollerance I'm sure the rules are incorrect, as nobody can adhere to them - it is impossible from an engineering perspective!
But they are legal minimum dimensions. The risk here is that the zero plates are to the minimum levels and therefore precision is essential unlike a normal full size plate which has a significant in built margin of error.I'd like to make it clear I'm not attempting to be argumentative, but just reinforcing that without a tollerance I'm sure the rules are incorrect, as nobody can adhere to them - it is impossible from an engineering perspective!
Edited by Ninja59 on Saturday 13th January 22:29
on number plates bought since 1 September 2001 will
need to meet the following standards.
n Characters must be 79mm tall
n Characters (except the number 1 or letter I) must be
50mm wide
n The character stroke (the thickness of the black print)
must be 14mm
n The space between characters must be 11mm
n The space between the age identifier and the random
letters must be 33mm
n The margins at the top, bottom and side of the plate
must be 11mm
n Vertical space between the age identifier and the
random numbers must be 19mm
Where does it state minimum? I can't see it - but my eyes aren't as good as the constable who has eyes of an eagle
It says they must be which isn't possible.
No measurements were taken at the roadside, the PC just took a picture of it and got my wife to sign somthing on a tablet
I don't have any of the officers details, like where they are based, although the GMP's traffic base is not too far away from home, I may take it there with some paperwork and see what they can do, I want it thrown out of court before it gets there if possible
I don't have any of the officers details, like where they are based, although the GMP's traffic base is not too far away from home, I may take it there with some paperwork and see what they can do, I want it thrown out of court before it gets there if possible
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