Bit of fun, so is this legal?

[tigger1]

Breadvan72 said:

One driver is texting while driving - a dangerous thing to do. A police driver in a stopped car takes a photo - not a dangerous thing to do. But never mind that - slag off the cozzers!

Genuine question (there was a comment on another thread that police have exemptions for speeding* but not for dangerous driving), does a police officer have an exemption that allows them to "use a mobile phone whilst driving* "?

I'm talking in a non-emergency situation, taking a photo of a parked van for PR purposes, say, obviously in an emergency there's a full exemption for all to use a mobile - in the same way that MoP can be ticketed for (safely?) using a phone parked in a layby with engine running.

• as that's the offence being committed by Joe Public even if the vehicle is stationary

[Pothole]

I see nobody on twitter has asked what device took the photo...anyone?

[Autopilot]

cmaguire said:

HantsRat said:

Yes they're not driving. It's a bit different to being on your phone at a red light waiting to move off. They're parked up on hard shoulder, hand brake on and not going anywhere so not driving.

Looks more like they're both on a sliproad joining the main carriageway, somewhat early considering they have both crossed a solid white line.

Because of the angled line in front of the car, I initially thought the same but at the text says about pulling over a motorist text while in the outside lane think it's fair to assume the van driver caught texting has worked his way over to the hold shoulder and pulling up.

On a slight tangent, I've been fined for using my phone on the highway. I was at a set of railway gates that are notorious for people dying of old age waiting for them to open again. As I got caught by the lights first, I knew I'd be there for an age so I switched the engine off and applied the handbrake and answered a call which rang a few moments later. An on foot officer knocked on the window and asked me to move out of the queue and pull in to the station carpark.

We discussed the definition of 'Driving while using a mobile' so did argue politely that had a train come past I'd have finished the very important call (from my mum), started the car, released the handbrake and moved away. He wasn't up for discussion so pointed out that despite my efforts, I was still on the highway and not 'pulled over' so was dished out a fine. This was before you got points and think it was just £60.

To add insult to injury, by the time we'd finished which was a good 10 - 15 minutes, the gates still hadn't opened.

[Ninja59]

HantsRat said:

I'm not aware of any one that has been given a ticket whilst parked or on hard shoulder? If you stopped on the hard shoulder just to make a phone call (Non emergency) then that's a different matter.

I am not saying I know of anyone myself either, but technically speaking possible as some car parks surely are public "roads".

For me engine and ignition off before going anywhere it near it. I just do not see the need for a phone to be anywhere near me when driving day to day. I will admit for use of Waze or something then a decent phone holder is very useful with the holder well placed as well....

[Ninja59]

Pothole said:

I see nobody on twitter has asked what device took the photo...anyone?

Someone has...

More
Replying to @HantsPolRoads
What did you use to take the photo...your phone???

[vonhosen]

ashleyman said:

Chrisgr31 said:

ashleyman said:

This is how I understood it too.. I know for sure this has been previously debated by Surrey Road Police on Twitter with a similar photo but they're engine was off. It's hard not to think one rule for them, one rule for us. I wonder if the ignition is on but start/stop engaged if that would count as off or on.

Would he be able to turn the engine off? If he is stationery on the hard shoulder presumably the roof lights are going to be flashing away, the radio live etc. Does that mean he cant turn the engine off due to battery going flat?

One would assume the emergency lights would run even when the vehicle is turned off, much the same as regular hazard lights. I'd also expect computers, radios etc... to be on some kind of voltage cut off to prevent battery drain but who knows.
.

The cars tend to have run lock.

[ashleyman]

vonhosen said:

ashleyman said:

Chrisgr31 said:

ashleyman said:

This is how I understood it too.. I know for sure this has been previously debated by Surrey Road Police on Twitter with a similar photo but they're engine was off. It's hard not to think one rule for them, one rule for us. I wonder if the ignition is on but start/stop engaged if that would count as off or on.

Would he be able to turn the engine off? If he is stationery on the hard shoulder presumably the roof lights are going to be flashing away, the radio live etc. Does that mean he cant turn the engine off due to battery going flat?

One would assume the emergency lights would run even when the vehicle is turned off, much the same as regular hazard lights. I'd also expect computers, radios etc... to be on some kind of voltage cut off to prevent battery drain but who knows.
.

The cars tend to have run lock.

Thanks for that but we're talking about when the engine/run lock is off.

[vonhosen]

ashleyman said:

vonhosen said:

ashleyman said:

Chrisgr31 said:

ashleyman said:

This is how I understood it too.. I know for sure this has been previously debated by Surrey Road Police on Twitter with a similar photo but they're engine was off. It's hard not to think one rule for them, one rule for us. I wonder if the ignition is on but start/stop engaged if that would count as off or on.

Would he be able to turn the engine off? If he is stationery on the hard shoulder presumably the roof lights are going to be flashing away, the radio live etc. Does that mean he cant turn the engine off due to battery going flat?

One would assume the emergency lights would run even when the vehicle is turned off, much the same as regular hazard lights. I'd also expect computers, radios etc... to be on some kind of voltage cut off to prevent battery drain but who knows.
.

The cars tend to have run lock.

Thanks for that but we're talking about when the engine/run lock is off.

In that case some of the vehicles have a dual battery system with a circuit breaker, one battery for starting the vehicle duties & the secondary running the auxiliaries. When the auxiliaries battery gets drained to a threshold it's circuit breaks & the auxiliaries don't function so they can't drain the primary battery. When the vehicle is restarted the auxiliaries won't work until you switch on the circuit break & the auxiliary battery can begin recharging

[Oakey]

Guess what, they don't have to wear seat belts either!

[largelunchbox]

Am I missing something? I can’t see any one using a phone in the pic?

[Sk00p]

largelunchbox said:

Am I missing something? I can’t see any one using a phone in the pic?

The photo taker

[V8LM]

About to cross a solid white line if they haven’t done already.

[bongtom]

Oakey said:

Guess what, they don't have to wear seat belts either!

Nor do taxi/private hire drivers if traveling with passengers or plying for hire.

[Gavia]

Autopilot said:

Because of the angled line in front of the car, I initially thought the same but at the text says about pulling over a motorist text while in the outside lane think it's fair to assume the van driver caught texting has worked his way over to the hold shoulder and pulling up.

On a slight tangent, I've been fined for using my phone on the highway. I was at a set of railway gates that are notorious for people dying of old age waiting for them to open again. As I got caught by the lights first, I knew I'd be there for an age so I switched the engine off and applied the handbrake and answered a call which rang a few moments later. An on foot officer knocked on the window and asked me to move out of the queue and pull in to the station carpark.

We discussed the definition of 'Driving while using a mobile' so did argue politely that had a train come past I'd have finished the very important call (from my mum), started the car, released the handbrake and moved away. He wasn't up for discussion so pointed out that despite my efforts, I was still on the highway and not 'pulled over' so was dished out a fine. This was before you got points and think it was just £60.

To add insult to injury, by the time we'd finished which was a good 10 - 15 minutes, the gates still hadn't opened.

He was right as well. You weren't pulled over, you were still on the road. Your argument seems to be that if you were in any sort of hold up on the road, you could simply switch your engine off and you’d be fine to use your phone. That isn’t correct.

I’m intrigued by this level crossing with a 10-15 minute wait. I’d be amazed if it was that long.

[RizzoTheRat]

Sk00p said:

largelunchbox said:

Am I missing something? I can’t see any one using a phone in the pic?

The photo taker

Which is a big assumption that nobody seems to have been able to confirm yet. The position of the photo looks to be about where a body mounted camera would be.

[Sk00p]

RizzoTheRat said:

Sk00p said:

largelunchbox said:

Am I missing something? I can’t see any one using a phone in the pic?

The photo taker

Which is a big assumption that nobody seems to have been able to confirm yet. The position of the photo looks to be about where a body mounted camera would be.

The closest they got on twitter to confirming it was to say the officer was stationary when it was taken as a few people asked in the end.

[eltawater]

It's a good high resolution bodycam if it is as it appears to have been recording at above HD resolution in a portait orientation.

The original file has had to be resized downwards by twitter to their standard 1536x2048 resolution...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUNe8hdW4AAsYAh.jpg:la...

[scarble]

ashleyman said:

Thanks for that but we're talking about when the engine/run lock is off.

No, you're talking about whether or not the officer broke the law by using a phone while driving and what constitutes driving, and whether or not they have the keys in the ignition.
So runlock is very relevant here.
The point of runlock is they can have the engine running and the keys not in the ignition and the vehicle not in a drivable state, so from a legal point of view the officer is not driving.

You are trying to criticise the police:

ashleyman said:

It's hard not to think one rule for them, one rule for us..

and there's nothing wrong with that, if they've done something wrong they should be held accountable, that's great, but don't shoot down valid arguments to the contrary.

Edited by scarble on Thursday 25th January 09:24

[Autopilot]

Gavia said:

Autopilot said:

Because of the angled line in front of the car, I initially thought the same but at the text says about pulling over a motorist text while in the outside lane think it's fair to assume the van driver caught texting has worked his way over to the hold shoulder and pulling up.

On a slight tangent, I've been fined for using my phone on the highway. I was at a set of railway gates that are notorious for people dying of old age waiting for them to open again. As I got caught by the lights first, I knew I'd be there for an age so I switched the engine off and applied the handbrake and answered a call which rang a few moments later. An on foot officer knocked on the window and asked me to move out of the queue and pull in to the station carpark.

We discussed the definition of 'Driving while using a mobile' so did argue politely that had a train come past I'd have finished the very important call (from my mum), started the car, released the handbrake and moved away. He wasn't up for discussion so pointed out that despite my efforts, I was still on the highway and not 'pulled over' so was dished out a fine. This was before you got points and think it was just £60.

To add insult to injury, by the time we'd finished which was a good 10 - 15 minutes, the gates still hadn't opened.

He was right as well. You weren't pulled over, you were still on the road. Your argument seems to be that if you were in any sort of hold up on the road, you could simply switch your engine off and you’d be fine to use your phone. That isn’t correct.

I’m intrigued by this level crossing with a 10-15 minute wait. I’d be amazed if it was that long.

Yes, he was right, I even received a fine because he was right.

While it has improved, there was a phase where the long waiting time between the gates coming down and a succession of trains meant that from time to time, they'd stay closed for an age and on occasion, over 15 minutes.

[Sk00p]

Catch it wrong and the crossing at Bramley near Amazingstoke can be down for over 10 mins. Ones right next to a station seem to be the worst as you end up waiting all the time they are at the platform