Cycle Event Marshals
Discussion
captain_cynic said:
Not sure when the last street circuit was in the UK... but in other countries if there is a, we still n organised street racing event, the area is cordoned off to other traffic and the route gazetted well in advance (I.E. Targa West, the last stage is a street circuit in Perth).
Er, if you mean motor racing, we still have three.Olivers Mount in Scarborough.
https://oliversmountracing.com/uncategorized/olive...
Northern Ireland has the North West 200 and the world's fastest road race, the Ulster Grand Prix.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_West_200
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Grand_Prix *
* The fastest lap info is out-of-date: Bruce Anstey's record was broken by Ian Hutchinson in 2016 at 134.089 mph
For 5 years (1986-1990) the Bull Ring hosted the F3000 Birmingham Superprix.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Superprix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTmoQOu8ULk
Not a circuit, but the UK also has the world's oldest motor racing event.
The Brighton Speed Trials on Madiera Drive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_Speed_Trial...
Not actually part of the UK, but still close to home.
The Isle of Man TT and Manx Grand Prix.
mickmcpaddy said:
Ares said:
I think UKIP have found their next leader.
I would be a UKIP MP or councillor no problem if Nige was the leader again.So we're in agreement that UKIP is a one-man-pony, then?
popeyewhite said:
Oh my bad, terribly sorry I've not supplied you with "evidence" lol. Go find your own evidence and disprove my point you lazy jackass. 
How many times must this argument be had? If you're the one with the bizarre assertion then the burden of proof is on you - it's not on others to prove it for you, that's ridiculous.If I turn up saying that I'm Elvis it's not then your job to prove that I am, is it?
So stop being silly, you've been rumbled - apologise and learn from it.
Marcellus said:
Try this one for starters; can you think of a race track/circuit/stately etc etc where a race could be held off the public roads which is c100miles long over varied surfaces and contains one, two or perhaps 3 climbs of 10% average over 2/10miles?
What does the length have to do with anything?Oulton Park is 2.6 miles round, so you have a race of about 50 laps and you have 100 miles. It also goes up and down quite a bit. see also Brands Hatch, Anglesey and Cadwell.
Many stately homes have good hillclimbs - Goodwood is an example.
Ares said:
Same reason they don't run marathons and 10k road races around stately homes.
It's a time trial, not a track race.
Yes they do. These two took 5 seconds of searching.It's a time trial, not a track race.
https://www.dbmax.co.uk/events/westonbirt-house-10...
https://www.jackrabbitevents.co.uk/calke-abbey-10k
Parkrun events take place off road every weekend.
I think I am going to invent a new sport called "RoadGolf". Afterall, as a pedestrian, I have "rights" on the road, and if I need to stop to hit a ball every so ofter, what's the problem? I'm sure motorists and cyclists won't mind waiting for a minute or two while I line up my putts.
LG9k said:
What does the length have to do with anything?
Oulton Park is 2.6 miles round, so you have a race of about 50 laps and you have 100 miles. It also goes up and down quite a bit. see also Brands Hatch, Anglesey and Cadwell.
Many stately homes have good hillclimbs - Goodwood is an example.
We have local cycle clubs, consisting of local people using local roads for a bit of exercise and sport of an evening after work and school once a week. The benefits of this social and physical activity are tremendous. Oulton Park is 2.6 miles round, so you have a race of about 50 laps and you have 100 miles. It also goes up and down quite a bit. see also Brands Hatch, Anglesey and Cadwell.
Many stately homes have good hillclimbs - Goodwood is an example.
Are you suggesting they should all take themselves from Sutton Coldfield, Lichfield, Tamworth etc and transport themselves to Oulton Park or Goodwood? How would they do that after school or work, and what would the weekly costs amount to?
popeyewhite said:
No we wouldn't. Road rallies are generally run in less populated areas, often at night or early in the morning. The driver doesn't do the map reading - precisely so he/she can concentrate on their driving.
That's only true for the top 10% of navigators, I'd suggest. For the rest the navigation and time keeping is a two man/woman job. One very successful husband and wife crew I know of, on daytime regularity rallying, I'm told her input from the left seat is fairly minimal. We are back to the usual scenario though. As motorists we produce and contribute to crushing and grinding congestion daily, costing the country billions and said to be costing each of us 25-30 hours of our lives sitting in traffic annually.
Yet still, some people who do this complain *bitterly* because they perceive to have been delayed for seconds by a cyclist.
Why don't you guys worry about your contribution to the grinding congestion instead?
Ps. The kids are off school - doesn't the traffic flow better?
Yet still, some people who do this complain *bitterly* because they perceive to have been delayed for seconds by a cyclist.
Why don't you guys worry about your contribution to the grinding congestion instead?
Ps. The kids are off school - doesn't the traffic flow better?
Dammit said:
How many times must this argument be had? If you're the one with the bizarre assertion then the burden of proof is on you - it's not on others to prove it for you, that's ridiculous.
If you think my assertion is "bizarre" you could always try challenging it by showing how racing in any environment actually increases attention to safety and lessens risk to other road users. Not going to happen is it? But that's how debate is supposed to work. "Burden of proof" lol. This is a motoring forum not a court of law you're getting confused and a little ahead of yourself. 
heebeegeetee said:
That's only true for the top 10% of navigators, I'd suggest. For the rest the navigation and time keeping is a two man/woman job. One very successful husband and wife crew I know of, on daytime regularity rallying, I'm told her input from the left seat is fairly minimal.
I'd suggest you were very wrong, and the fact is you know ONE "very successful husband and wife crew" smile And you have no idea how the driver's concentration is affected.I see you have no disagreement with the rest of my points.
heebeegeetee said:
We have local cycle clubs, consisting of local people using local roads for a bit of exercise and sport of an evening after work and school once a week. The benefits of this social and physical activity are tremendous.
Are you suggesting they should all take themselves from Sutton Coldfield, Lichfield, Tamworth etc and transport themselves to Oulton Park or Goodwood? How would they do that after school or work, and what would the weekly costs amount to?
Not at all, those were two examples. There are many places to ride off road. See my example of Parkrun - local events for local people.Are you suggesting they should all take themselves from Sutton Coldfield, Lichfield, Tamworth etc and transport themselves to Oulton Park or Goodwood? How would they do that after school or work, and what would the weekly costs amount to?
As you can see, no-one is far from such places. https://www.parkrun.org.uk/events/events/
I love cycling about the place although I only really do it to go somewhere - usually the supermarket or the local "big town" for some shopping - so I understand the benefits very well.
I do my utmost not to hold other road users up i.e. stick to one of the the basic tenets of the Highway Code "Be Considerate..." (Rule 66 for cyclists, and 147 for motorists).
I also note that no-one has taken up the suggestion of cycle clubs creating their own safe spaces to race/do sport in the same way that motor sport folk have. Buy up some land, lay down lovely smooth bit or tarmac and away you go. The Mountain Biking organisations have done this (minus the tarmac of course).
heebeegeetee said:
We have local cycle clubs, consisting of local people using local roads for a bit of exercise and sport
Stop there.Using the roads for "sport"? With traffic passing at up to 70 mph while you're trying to shed a few seconds off a mile with your head down? Shut the road or go somewhere there's no other traffic.
LG9k said:
Marcellus said:
Try this one for starters; can you think of a race track/circuit/stately etc etc where a race could be held off the public roads which is c100miles long over varied surfaces and contains one, two or perhaps 3 climbs of 10% average over 2/10miles?
What does the length have to do with anything?Oulton Park is 2.6 miles round, so you have a race of about 50 laps and you have 100 miles. It also goes up and down quite a bit. see also Brands Hatch, Anglesey and Cadwell.
Many stately homes have good hillclimbs - Goodwood is an example.
Surely even you can think why that might be.... why is Oulton Park 2.6miles, why not just 0.6miles, why is the Le Mans 24 not the Le Mans 2.4?
A track that is 2.6 miles cannot have a 2 mile climb on it let alone 5/10mile one, as for using a "Hill Climb" at the top of one where does the road go?
Your question was?
LG9k said:
why these time trials and races can't take place off public roads.
As I said, in cycling to race over 100 miles with only 2/3 proper (>10% average) climbs of 5/10 miles is a challenge and very different from a race of 100miles with a little climb (no more than a bump) every 2.5miles that would be possible off public roads.Just like any "sport" there are various disciplines and various lengths to make up these disciplines, in cycling one of which is road racing.
LG9k said:
Marcellus said:
Try this one for starters; can you think of a race track/circuit/stately etc etc where a race could be held off the public roads which is c100miles long over varied surfaces and contains one, two or perhaps 3 climbs of 10% average over 2/10miles?
What does the length have to do with anything?Oulton Park is 2.6 miles round, so you have a race of about 50 laps and you have 100 miles. It also goes up and down quite a bit. see also Brands Hatch, Anglesey and Cadwell.
Many stately homes have good hillclimbs - Goodwood is an example.
popeyewhite said:
If you think my assertion is "bizarre" you could always try challenging it by showing how racing in any environment actually increases attention to safety and lessens risk to other road users. Not going to happen is it? But that's how debate is supposed to work. "Burden of proof" lol. This is a motoring forum not a court of law you're getting confused and a little ahead of yourself.
So, you'd still like me to prove your assertion for you? Would you like me to do your hoovering as well?LG9k said:
Ares said:
Same reason they don't run marathons and 10k road races around stately homes.
It's a time trial, not a track race.
Yes they do. These two took 5 seconds of searching.It's a time trial, not a track race.
https://www.dbmax.co.uk/events/westonbirt-house-10...
https://www.jackrabbitevents.co.uk/calke-abbey-10k
Parkrun events take place off road every weekend.
I think I am going to invent a new sport called "RoadGolf". Afterall, as a pedestrian, I have "rights" on the road, and if I need to stop to hit a ball every so ofter, what's the problem? I'm sure motorists and cyclists won't mind waiting for a minute or two while I line up my putts.
From your own link...
Calke Abbey 10k race web page said:
"A fully measured 10K, chip timed road race, will take you, the runner from within the stunning Calke grounds, out onto the surrounding undulating roads, before returning into the tree-lined mile long private driveway and into the finish.
So a web link you used to prove that 10k road races can be, and are, held within the grounds of stately homes comprehensively demonstrates that the opposite is true. While Jackrabbit Events clearly find the use of the Abbey as a start/finish point and event base to be desirable, they didn't find sufficient suitable roads within the grounds to avoid the need for taking the race out of said grounds and onto local roads.Parkrun? The whole point of that is traffic-free, safe running in local parks. It's kind of Parkrun's USP. That it's free, and fun, and local. It's neither a race, nor is it a 10 km run. Try reading what parkrun say about themselves...
parkrun homepage said:
parkrun organise free, weekly, 5km timed runs around the world. They are open to everyone, free, and are safe and easy to take part in.
These events take place in pleasant parkland surroundings and we encourage people of every ability to take part; from those taking their first steps in running to Olympians; from juniors to those with more experience; we welcome you all.
Now if only there was someone who could come up with an idea for a weekly mass-participation cycling event, at thousands of venues nationwide, which was free to enter, safe, and traffic-free for riders. Perhaps it could be called "parkcycle" and then we could have tens of thousands of miserable dog walkers moaning about how these cyclists were taking up too much space in their local parks, and how "they ought to be out on the roads where they bloody-well belong, because parks aren't suitable places for adults to ride bicycles at 20 mph..." These events take place in pleasant parkland surroundings and we encourage people of every ability to take part; from those taking their first steps in running to Olympians; from juniors to those with more experience; we welcome you all.
But the "Road Golf" thing? Yup, I'm all for that. Perhaps YOU could play the inaugural round to show us how it's done. I'd suggest a junction on the M25 as a good place to start. You can play in the carriageway, and we'll spectate from the relative safety of the bridges.
It's given me a grand idea though. It'll light up the golfists' lives with joy. I'm calling it "18 hole MTBing". It runs in the same sort of format as an Enduro race. We start on the tee at the first, then sprint against the clock to the green, with an extra element of style points for long skids that end up with the rear wheel sat in the hole. Then we ride at a non-racing pace to the next tee and wait our turn for the sprint against the clock to the next green. The winner is the rider who upsets the groundsmen the most...
And even a quick look at the Westonbirt House 10k, that other link you put up? Yup, it turns out that a significant portion of that is run "off site" on public roads too... https://gb.mapometer.com/running/route_4364642.htm... ...and... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6070876,-2.18994...
Perhaps you need more than 5 seconds with Google?
popeyewhite said:
heebeegeetee said:
We have local cycle clubs, consisting of local people using local roads for a bit of exercise and sport
Stop there.Using the roads for "sport"? With traffic passing at up to 70 mph while you're trying to shed a few seconds off a mile with your head down? Shut the road or go somewhere there's no other traffic.
Cool. So no traffic disruption on a Saturday afternoon caused by tens of thousands of football fans queuing to get to matchday parking. No nightmare journeys up the A316 just because some rugger-buggers want to watch men in white shirts grab each others genitals and get muddy. No more getting stuck behind yet another rusty Iveco loaded with pedigree chum on it's way to some gymkhana or other where every participant gets a rosette "because it's nice".
Do we draw the line at sport only? Or does leisure come into it too? Because walking is a leisure activity. Especially if one has one's trousers tucked into one's red socks, and is propelling oneself along with poles. Are they, too, banned? Because many people walk along roads with no footways in rural areas to get between public footpaths and open spaces. Shopping? Many, many sad Muppets with orange tans and white Range Rovers undertake "shopping" as a leisure activity. Hopefully this ban will cover them too.
Can I still bait morons on the internet though, so long as I promise not to use the roads to do it?
Marcellus said:
LG9k said:
Marcellus said:
Try this one for starters; can you think of a race track/circuit/stately etc etc where a race could be held off the public roads which is c100miles long over varied surfaces and contains one, two or perhaps 3 climbs of 10% average over 2/10miles?
What does the length have to do with anything?Oulton Park is 2.6 miles round, so you have a race of about 50 laps and you have 100 miles. It also goes up and down quite a bit. see also Brands Hatch, Anglesey and Cadwell.
Many stately homes have good hillclimbs - Goodwood is an example.
Surely even you can think why that might be.... why is Oulton Park 2.6miles, why not just 0.6miles, why is the Le Mans 24 not the Le Mans 2.4?
A track that is 2.6 miles cannot have a 2 mile climb on it let alone 5/10mile one, as for using a "Hill Climb" at the top of one where does the road go?
At the top of the Goodwood hillclimb, the road (Park Road, FYI) actually goes out of the estate, and onto Selhurstpark Road, a "public road", just behind the horse racecourse... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Goodwood+House... ...Which again brings us to the question of "what constitutes 'using the road for sport'?" Because it's clear that motorists driving to watch sport at Goodwood Racecourse, or the FoS at Goodwood House, or the motor circuit have little regard for the impact of their entirely non-essential journeys on the lives of others. And it's not just on event days, but lots of non-essential traffic in and out of these venues for weeks either side of the event itself.
So I'd say that a slack handful of cyclists holding a time trial on the public roads for an hour once a week for the summer months with no closures, no traffic controls, and no restrictions, traffic regulation orders, or one-way diversions is a pretty fair trade-off in real terms.
The trouble with many motorists is that a) they have no idea what exactly a road is, in practical and legal terms, and b) they have become so self-absorbed over the years that they imagine that the roads were put there solely for their use in cars. Yet we all become "road users" the moment we step beyond the boundary of our own property and into a "public space". The sooner this idea is hammered home again, the better. Then we can all get on with sharing the roads with a bit more respect for ALL road users.
Edited by yellowjack on Tuesday 20th February 12:01
yellowjack said:
LG9k said:
Ares said:
Same reason they don't run marathons and 10k road races around stately homes.
It's a time trial, not a track race.
Yes they do. These two took 5 seconds of searching.It's a time trial, not a track race.
https://www.dbmax.co.uk/events/westonbirt-house-10...
https://www.jackrabbitevents.co.uk/calke-abbey-10k
Parkrun events take place off road every weekend.
I think I am going to invent a new sport called "RoadGolf". Afterall, as a pedestrian, I have "rights" on the road, and if I need to stop to hit a ball every so ofter, what's the problem? I'm sure motorists and cyclists won't mind waiting for a minute or two while I line up my putts.
From your own link...
Calke Abbey 10k race web page said:
"A fully measured 10K, chip timed road race, will take you, the runner from within the stunning Calke grounds, out onto the surrounding undulating roads, before returning into the tree-lined mile long private driveway and into the finish.
And even a quick look at the Westonbirt House 10k, that other link you put up? Yup, it turns out that a significant portion of that is run "off site" on public roads too... https://gb.mapometer.com/running/route_4364642.htm... ...and... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6070876,-2.18994...Perhaps you need more than 5 seconds with Google?
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