Cycle Event Marshals
Discussion
BMWBen said:
So I suppose people who are driving for the purpose of leisure and not work should have their own roads as well?
Because those using their motor vehicles for leisure don't block thoroughfares for others.Not sure when the last street circuit was in the UK... but in other countries if there is an organised street racing event, the area is cordoned off to other traffic and the route gazetted well in advance (I.E. Targa West, the last stage is a street circuit in Perth).
Don't see why cyclists should have different rules. Want to organise a road race, get permission, gazette it and set up diversions.
Otherwise, LG9K's suggestion was a fantastic one... going further along that line, why not simply hire one of our existing Motorsport facilities for the purposes of cycle racing on tarmac? Zero traffic, no pedestrians, far smoother tarmac than a normal road, people can watch.
There was a PC in the City, with the nick-name of Bunty for reasons unknown, whom I'd placed on the police controlled pedestrian crossing outside Cannon Street station. Everyone had to do it so whilst it was irritating, those awarded the point were expected to get on with it without moaning. Mind you, if anyone was to moan, Bunty would be there or thereabouts.
Around 0845 I received a radio message from Bunty asking for permission to leave the post in order to obtain details of an offender. I asked what for and was told failing to obey the directions of a police officer. 'Nice try,' I said. 'But no.'
The following morning, around 0845 I hear a request for transport to bring a prisoner to the nick. In walks Bunty with a bank manager, complete with bowler, but Bunty had his umbrella in his hand.
Miffed at my rejection, Bunty had gone to a magistrate and sworn out a descriptive warrant. The following morning he waited at Cannon Street and nicked the bloke.
The bank manager was initially very stroppy, refusing details or even signing for items removed. After 20 mins in the cells he'd changed his tune and was concerned about his promotion prospects. He pleaded guilty the next morning. I was told there was a bit of hilarity in the Mansion House Justice Rooms for the hearing. Bunty, a very pleasant bloke, but a little camp, had not revealed what the chap had said when he'd directed him to wait on the footway with the others. The bench demanded he tell them and the words had something to do with Bunty's manner of standing. Wish I'd been there.
Around 0845 I received a radio message from Bunty asking for permission to leave the post in order to obtain details of an offender. I asked what for and was told failing to obey the directions of a police officer. 'Nice try,' I said. 'But no.'
The following morning, around 0845 I hear a request for transport to bring a prisoner to the nick. In walks Bunty with a bank manager, complete with bowler, but Bunty had his umbrella in his hand.
Miffed at my rejection, Bunty had gone to a magistrate and sworn out a descriptive warrant. The following morning he waited at Cannon Street and nicked the bloke.
The bank manager was initially very stroppy, refusing details or even signing for items removed. After 20 mins in the cells he'd changed his tune and was concerned about his promotion prospects. He pleaded guilty the next morning. I was told there was a bit of hilarity in the Mansion House Justice Rooms for the hearing. Bunty, a very pleasant bloke, but a little camp, had not revealed what the chap had said when he'd directed him to wait on the footway with the others. The bench demanded he tell them and the words had something to do with Bunty's manner of standing. Wish I'd been there.
captain_cynic said:
Because those using their motor vehicles for leisure don't block thoroughfares for others.
The RAC must be mistaken - these are clearly essential business journeys.
captain_cynic said:
Don't see why cyclists should have different rules.
Can you really not see the difference in terms of risk and disruption between cycling and motorsport?mx5nut said:
Can you really not see the difference in terms of risk and disruption between cycling and motorsport?
Not when it's blocking the road.Also bank holidays are when the most cyclists are out.
Can you not see the double standards you're proposing? Dont bother answering, it's obvious you don't
captain_cynic said:
BMWBen said:
So I suppose people who are driving for the purpose of leisure and not work should have their own roads as well?
Because those using their motor vehicles for leisure don't block thoroughfares for others.Not sure when the last street circuit was in the UK... but in other countries if there is an organised street racing event, the area is cordoned off to other traffic and the route gazetted well in advance (I.E. Targa West, the last stage is a street circuit in Perth).
Don't see why cyclists should have different rules. Want to organise a road race, get permission, gazette it and set up diversions.
Otherwise, LG9K's suggestion was a fantastic one... going further along that line, why not simply hire one of our existing Motorsport facilities for the purposes of cycle racing on tarmac? Zero traffic, no pedestrians, far smoother tarmac than a normal road, people can watch.
captain_cynic said:
mx5nut said:
Can you really not see the difference in terms of risk and disruption between cycling and motorsport?
Not when it's blocking the road.Also bank holidays are when the most cyclists are out.
Can you not see the double standards you're proposing? Dont bother answering, it's obvious you don't
p1esk said:
So, does that mean that a driver could legitimately ignore the directions of a cycle race marshall, on the grounds that no cyclists had yet reached this point and none were in sight at this time, so long as the driver clears the area and goes on his way without interfering with the racers in any way?
Probably if this were the case then the marshal wouldn't be stopping you, that is the point of them to try and ensure that the least inconvenience is caused to other road users whilst maintaining a smooth flow for the race.For example if you were coming to a junction and turning left and the peloton were half a mile before the junction then it's better for everyone for you to turn left and bugger off, whereas if you were coming to a junction and the lead vehicle has gone past and the pelton were 100m before the junction then you might not be able to see either of if you can think it safe to pop out ahead of them but people often underestimate the speed a peloton can travel at so safer for everyone if you're held until the peleton and entourage has passed, even on Road crits (ie circuits) often the marshals/organisers try and create a rolling road block where possible.
yellowjack said:
mickmcpaddy said:
BMWBen said:
Right... and so do they...
And they're not "doing as they please" any more than you are. They're going about their business using the road in a lawful way. If you decide you don't like that and decide to take things into your own hands, you're the one being anti-social. It's the very definition of it.
P.S. Why the I/They tribalism, we're all humans, citizens and taxpayers after all. "They" are also car drivers in the vast majority of cases. As well as parents, friends...
It doesn't matter if the cyclists pay to use the road or not, they are still preventing people that have paid too from using it.And they're not "doing as they please" any more than you are. They're going about their business using the road in a lawful way. If you decide you don't like that and decide to take things into your own hands, you're the one being anti-social. It's the very definition of it.
P.S. Why the I/They tribalism, we're all humans, citizens and taxpayers after all. "They" are also car drivers in the vast majority of cases. As well as parents, friends...
Edited by BMWBen on Sunday 18th February 22:16
If I go to a concert I can't demand a private showing because I have paid the same as everyone else.
I went on a cruise too. It doesn't matter if other passengers have paid the same all-inclusive rate as me, they were still preventing me from getting to the food first by forming themselves into an orderly queue, in a completely unreasonable manner. Do these people have no idea who I am, FFS?
And what of the totally selfish a
holes who got to an event car park before me? Not one of them considered sacrificing their right to park on the tarmac car park to save me from having to park in the overflow field and consequently having to walk an extra 300 muddy yards!!!Waaaaaaaaah!
I wouldn't mind but its not as if the roads are closed to do a liver run or something, its just for someones leisure activity, totally unnecessary to use the public roads, why cant they pay to use Oulton Park or Brands Hatch for the day, no traffic, no pot holes, score boards already set up. etc. etc.
mickmcpaddy said:
yellowjack said:
mickmcpaddy said:
BMWBen said:
Right... and so do they...
And they're not "doing as they please" any more than you are. They're going about their business using the road in a lawful way. If you decide you don't like that and decide to take things into your own hands, you're the one being anti-social. It's the very definition of it.
P.S. Why the I/They tribalism, we're all humans, citizens and taxpayers after all. "They" are also car drivers in the vast majority of cases. As well as parents, friends...
It doesn't matter if the cyclists pay to use the road or not, they are still preventing people that have paid too from using it.And they're not "doing as they please" any more than you are. They're going about their business using the road in a lawful way. If you decide you don't like that and decide to take things into your own hands, you're the one being anti-social. It's the very definition of it.
P.S. Why the I/They tribalism, we're all humans, citizens and taxpayers after all. "They" are also car drivers in the vast majority of cases. As well as parents, friends...
Edited by BMWBen on Sunday 18th February 22:16
If I go to a concert I can't demand a private showing because I have paid the same as everyone else.
I went on a cruise too. It doesn't matter if other passengers have paid the same all-inclusive rate as me, they were still preventing me from getting to the food first by forming themselves into an orderly queue, in a completely unreasonable manner. Do these people have no idea who I am, FFS?
And what of the totally selfish a
holes who got to an event car park before me? Not one of them considered sacrificing their right to park on the tarmac car park to save me from having to park in the overflow field and consequently having to walk an extra 300 muddy yards!!!Waaaaaaaaah!
I wouldn't mind but its not as if the roads are closed to do a liver run or something, its just for someones leisure activity, totally unnecessary to use the public roads, why cant they pay to use Oulton Park or Brands Hatch for the day, no traffic, no pot holes, score boards already set up. etc. etc.
According to the "rules of the road" (by which I mean "the law" rather than the rules of the road that you might dream up yourself), this is permitted.
You still seem to have also missed the point that a huge amount of road use *by cars* is for leisure, and those cars hold up *other cars* and, believe it or not... cyclists.
BMWBen said:
Dixy said:
JPJPJP said:
A normal cycle race peloton is 60 people
For the sake of 90 seconds as they pass
This would be no problem at all, but we are not talking Tour De France, it is the groups of a 1, 2 and 3 every fifty meters spread out over a couple of hours and many miles.For the sake of 90 seconds as they pass
It would be fine if one set of rules applied equally to both sides, it could be called the highway code.
mickmcpaddy said:
BMWBen said:
Right... and so do they...
And they're not "doing as they please" any more than you are. They're going about their business using the road in a lawful way. If you decide you don't like that and decide to take things into your own hands, you're the one being anti-social. It's the very definition of it.
P.S. Why the I/They tribalism, we're all humans, citizens and taxpayers after all. "They" are also car drivers in the vast majority of cases. As well as parents, friends...
It doesn't matter if the cyclists pay to use the road or not, they are still preventing people that have paid too from using it.And they're not "doing as they please" any more than you are. They're going about their business using the road in a lawful way. If you decide you don't like that and decide to take things into your own hands, you're the one being anti-social. It's the very definition of it.
P.S. Why the I/They tribalism, we're all humans, citizens and taxpayers after all. "They" are also car drivers in the vast majority of cases. As well as parents, friends...
Edited by BMWBen on Sunday 18th February 22:16
If I go to a concert I can't demand a private showing because I have paid the same as everyone else.
rscott said:
mickmcpaddy said:
It doesn't matter if the cyclists pay to use the road or not, they are still preventing people that have paid too from using it.
If I go to a concert I can't demand a private showing because I have paid the same as everyone else.
How much do you pay a year to tax your car? If it's less than £240 I demand you pull over if I'm behind you. After all I pay more than you for RFL so have a greater right to use the road than you.If I go to a concert I can't demand a private showing because I have paid the same as everyone else.
....and what about in the first year when RFL is a lot higher. Do driver so current reg cars get automatic preference in traffic jams?
So many new rules of the road....
heebeegeetee said:
If we banned cycling time trialing ..
No one's mentioned banning it. Evidence suggests it would be much safer for all concerned if it was done on closed roads.heebeegeetee said:
then we'd need to also ban road rallies,
No we wouldn't. Road rallies are generally run in less populated areas, often at night or early in the morning. The driver doesn't do the map reading - precisely so he/she can concentrate on their driving.popeyewhite said:
okgo said:
Why shouldn't they?
Because it's racing and when people race they disregard other elements that require attention, such as safety ie for themselves and the other members of the public that use the roads at the same time. Attention is finite. Close the road, then let them do time trials. No idiocy from either impatient drivers or cyclists that put speed before personal safety.popeyewhite said:
Gargamel said:
I think cyclists are very well aware of the risks involved and pretty much anyone who has "raced" on the road, well have given up time to ensure they make it to the finish line.
Are you saying the (quite considerable) research looking at the effect of racing on attention is incorrect? captain_cynic said:
BMWBen said:
So I suppose people who are driving for the purpose of leisure and not work should have their own roads as well?
Because those using their motor vehicles for leisure don't block thoroughfares for others.Nothing to do with this particular discussion, but I thought I might relate to you how I and my fellow Marshals at Brands Hatch disrupted a bike race (? The Milk Race) one afternoon during the nineties.
We were briefed to expect a visit from the race during the day, the idea being the cyclists would come round the back of the grandstand, do a lap of the circuit, and jigger off back into Kent again to complete their stage. They turned up at lunchtime, just as we were getting out our sandwiches, and the lads at my corner were not best pleased to get a call from race control to go down on to the track to shepherd them past. This was at the end of Brabham straight, just before the track divides between the short Indy loop and the GP circuit.
There were two guys miles in the lead, and we waved them off up the GP circuit, only to get another frantic call to tell us that they were supposed to be going round the short circuit. By this time the pelleton had arrived so we changed position and waved them round that way. When they had all gone past, the leaders reappeared off the GP circuit under the road bridge, clearly confused as to how everybody else was now some distance in front of them. We just got on with our sandwiches.
We were briefed to expect a visit from the race during the day, the idea being the cyclists would come round the back of the grandstand, do a lap of the circuit, and jigger off back into Kent again to complete their stage. They turned up at lunchtime, just as we were getting out our sandwiches, and the lads at my corner were not best pleased to get a call from race control to go down on to the track to shepherd them past. This was at the end of Brabham straight, just before the track divides between the short Indy loop and the GP circuit.
There were two guys miles in the lead, and we waved them off up the GP circuit, only to get another frantic call to tell us that they were supposed to be going round the short circuit. By this time the pelleton had arrived so we changed position and waved them round that way. When they had all gone past, the leaders reappeared off the GP circuit under the road bridge, clearly confused as to how everybody else was now some distance in front of them. We just got on with our sandwiches.
mickmcpaddy said:
You just dont get it, stopping traffic so cyclists can have priority when they shouldn't according to the rules of the road is like you paying for your all inclusive cruise and then being held back from the restaurant whilst a load of dayglow suited ponces go straight to the front of the queue even though you were there first.
I wouldn't mind but its not as if the roads are closed to do a liver run or something, its just for someones leisure activity, totally unnecessary to use the public roads, why cant they pay to use Oulton Park or Brands Hatch for the day, no traffic, no pot holes, score boards already set up. etc. etc.
More/less unnecessary than your supermarket run?I wouldn't mind but its not as if the roads are closed to do a liver run or something, its just for someones leisure activity, totally unnecessary to use the public roads, why cant they pay to use Oulton Park or Brands Hatch for the day, no traffic, no pot holes, score boards already set up. etc. etc.
And I think we were talking about 60-90seconds of delay. SECONDS, not minutes. SECONDS. Less time than you would get held up in your vitally important vehicle at a set of traffic lights. Less time than you got delayed by taking a s
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